12-03-2010 10:10 AM
I have a call reference B1LZ362.
I am feeling very dis-appointed that Lenovo is refusing to honour next business day service warranty on pretext that I need to run some diagnostics, when infact my machine has completely crashed.
I have tried to explain that "As the machine has completely crashed" the best way forward is for someone to come and check as the machine is not capable of running any diagnostic by itself. They suggested that they would send some CD's and all to run diagnostic which is again, against the next business day service promise.
I have done my bit by downloading a software and trying to follow the instruction to load that into a CD drive. Now this is clearly not my area of responsibility as anything that lies beyond the machine itself cannot be customers responsibility. But somehow the service centre does not understand this basic logic.
If someone in forum can suggest how to escalate this so that this is resolved, it will be appreciated.
Or it is systematic issue as I suspect it is, with Lenovo?
12-06-2010 03:33 PM - edited 12-06-2010 07:51 PM
We will look into this - thanks for sharing your situation. Can you send me a PM with your contact info and the system model type and serial?
I don't think I would characterize this as a systematic issue (as in chronic), but I think there are sometimes different expectations for Onsite Service. Next business day service is a response time, but not necessarily guaranteed resolution timeframe, although we do our best to accomplish that. We track achievement of the NBD objective closely. Onsite service does not cover configuration of software issues, reloading of an OS, etc.
The support center should triage the call, perform diagnostics over the phone or through remote client access to determine if hardware service is required. If so, and you have onsite, the needed part(s) should be ordered and a tech scheduled. The tech should follow up with you to confirm an appointment time.
Can you tell us a bit more about the system's status?
What model system do you have?
Does it power on?
Can you get to the BIOS screen? Do you even get a display? Any beep codes?
12-07-2010 02:46 AM
Thanks for your response.
It is a Think Center Model 8705 77G. A55. I do get the BIOS but after that there was no progress. So I was asked to download a software to perform the hard-disk test by booting from a CD. I downloaded the software into my computer but I was not able to progress with the steps as described in URL the support team sent because the wizard was displaying "invalid disk" error.
I called the support and they insisted I needed a non-rw CD for the purpose. Something I was not informed of earlier and which I doubt very much because the message just prior to the failure was that I needed a rw-cd. I have enquired in neighbouring shops and they do not have non-rw CD's.
Now this non-rw CD is not easily obtainable from where I work but also because it is external to the Computer, logically it is beyond my area of responsibility to procure a tool to do the diagnostics.
So I requested them to send an Engineer which they are refusing to do. They suggested they can send the recovery CD's (which will wipe out all data and hope of recovering that data) from my HDD.
Why is there so much reluctance to send someone because this is a PC. Even though it may be software issue, the responsibility of establishing whether this is Software issue is squarely with Lenovo.
I have done what I reasonably could but beyond a point I have the right to ask Lenovo to carry the diagnostics themselves if it involves tools that are not part of original supply. (Otherwise where would you draw a line, at a Supercomputer?).
More importantly I would like to compare with Dell who send out engineers without asking a single question. (They do ask for diagnostics but the tone and response is very very different).
Hope to have a positive and timely response.
12-07-2010 12:58 PM
Further to my post in the morning, I managed to sort the CD problem (actually it was bit old so probably dirt scratched its surface)...so I have had a new CD and using which I booted the PC.
During the test, it shows "Unable to Access to (some) sector" ...having searched internet, I find it could be multitude of reasons. When I called the service desk, it informed me that they can send me the Hard Drive and recovery CD if I gave them back my Hard Drive. This by the same person who said I cannot use a RW-CD. (And he spoke earlier with full confidence and authority, saying that he was sure it was because of RW-CD). How do you trust such a fake expert ? (excuse my language but I am really p*** off with this guy). How do you send him your Hard Disk full of data. What of something else is the problem and not the hard disk?
He also insisted that the hard drive is a CRU. When I asked him to confirm this with an email, he agreed over the phone, but sent only a copy of agreement (which I asked him not to send as I had already downloaded PDF).
So how do you trust him?
I doubt if HDD will be considered CRU because opening the case up would mean the risk of electric shock for a novice. So can Lenovo claim HDD as CRU?
The other question therefore is what is Next Business Day Warranty (And I have Think Plus, whatever it means) then.
So Mark, please can you check what is happening at your UK centre because this is absolutely unacceptable that a business pays for the warranty and Lenovo uses all in its means to deny the service it promised. Or it is just the case of one misguided person. (incidentally One person has answered my call thrice, strange).
12-12-2010 01:00 AM
This is standard practice at lenovo. They always do this.
What you do is you don't play their game. Just tell them that you are not a trained technician, but if they want to hire you to fix it you will charge $300 per hour.
They will try again to get you to follow there instrctions on the phone. Don't do it, insist on a ticket and make them either send you a replacement part or come out and fix the machine.
repeat this sequence about 6 times until they understand that YOU are not fixing the machine, they are.
They will insist that you have to try their phone suppport ......but you don't, Just insist that you are not comfortable tinkering with the machine and you do not want to get shocked.
12-13-2010 01:31 PM
01-25-2011 01:50 AM - edited 01-25-2011 01:51 AM
a) Where in the agreement is it written that HDD is a CRU. So I do not agree.
b) If a technician is required to change it, who pays for it?
c) How do you trust their version that HDD is wrong? Also my old drive has important data and why should I part with the drive with untrusted analysis of problem.
Is there some way that someone will look into this and maybe bring some kind of class action against Lenovo regarding its failure to honour Warranties. I suspect this is quite widespread within Lenovo now. I have heard lot of lawyers can do this on % commission basis only.
Does anyone know of a lawyer who would be interested and investigate.
01-25-2011 01:54 AM - edited 01-25-2011 01:55 AM
Thanks Hellgate. I wish I should have done that, but guess I would rather keep it simple.
I wonder however if Lenovo could be taught to behave in western markets to their standards. I do not fully understand it, but some lawyer may smell a big opportunity of bringing a class action suit.
01-25-2011 12:23 PM - edited 01-25-2011 12:24 PM
The statements of limited warranty can be found on this site; Warranty and License Agreement. Depending on the year of manufacture of your system there are different versions.
In all versions it states to the effect;
"If your problem cannot be resolved over the telephone or remotely, through your application of s softwear updates, or with a CRU, your Service Provider will arrange for service under the type of warranty service designated for the product under the section titled “Warranty Information.”
If replacing the CRU doesn't solve your problem, they may well decide to send a technician should they then decide that other, non CRU, components require replacement.
What is classified as an CRU can be seen in the hardware maintenance manual for your system which can be found here. Please also note that there are also instructions on how to replace CRU hardware items in the hardware maintenance manual.
A technician isn't required to change the hard drive, it's possible to do this yourself.
As the hardware diagnosis tool was "Unable to Access to (some) sector" it is likely that you hard drive is faulty. If you haven't saved your important files to another media before now, you should do so. You and you alone are responsible for your files; if the hard drive gives up totally at any point, which it could do, Lenovo will not be responsible for the loss, you will be.
Replacing the drive yourself has the benefit that you have two weeks grace to return it; this will allow you time to install and configure your new drive and continue to copy files from the old drive if needs require. You also have time to delete the drive with a suitable software; Secure Data Disposal is an option offered by Lenovo, there are other free tools offered by hard drive and software manufacturers which you may prefer.
Insisting a technician comes to do it will result in them changing the drive and taking the old one with him. I personally believe swapping the drive out yourself offers more time and scope for recovering files and ensuring the drive is "clean" before it goes back. Of course if the drive were to be in a really bad state, it may not be possible to delete it properly using a software solution.
Your problem could have probably been solved within a few days.
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01-27-2011 01:44 PM - last edited on 01-27-2011 02:59 PM by JaneL
Andy, it has offcourse taken you 3 months to respond to what is next day onsite service warranty. As you can clearly see the CRU was not defined in the Warranty terms and neither are the manuals referenced in the Warranty.
Please read my earlier posts where I had mentioned this
"I called the support and they insisted I needed a non-rw CD for the purpose. Something I was not informed of earlier and which I doubt very much because the message just prior to the failure was that I needed a rw-cd. I have enquired in neighbouring shops and they do not have non-rw CD's.
Now this non-rw CD is not easily obtainable from where I work but also because it is external to the Computer, logically it is beyond my area of responsibility to procure a tool to do the diagnostics. "
Infact I later discovered that I could actually write rw-CD; so what is the credibility of your on call technician and how reliable are they? Someone who insists that I need non-rw CD to copy a program? He was as arrogant with that as he is with his insistence that my hard drive has crashed.
All in all, as far as I am concerned Lenovo seem to have devised a way not to honour its commitment to its customers.
Also "A technician isn't required to change the hard drive, it's possible to do this yourself." Actually it is possible for me to "change the motherboard and even do soldering" after Einstein has done it, but that is besides the point.
In my opinion
a) If I need to open the box, it has potential risk of electric shock and so I would not do it. Do you deny there is this risk of electric shock?
b) I am not convinced that your technician is competent to do any diagnostic particularly after what he said about non-rw CD
c) That writing of the program into a media not supplied by Lenovo Must not be part of any diagnostics because "it was tool not supplied by the machine"
How can I send my hard drive when I do not think agree with your fault analysis in the first place. I have lost so much time, what has Lenovo lost?
I do not have much hope with Lenovo in this particular instance. People reading this post are free to make up their minds about Lenovo and its service quality.
Lenovo sucks in other words.
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