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aghayek
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎02-11-2011
Location: irvine
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I want out of the Lenovo Business

[ Edited ]

Dear Lenovo, 


I want a full refund to my Lenovo Think Pad T410s which is currently at one of your service centers. (serial number: xxxxxxx)

I am an extremely unsatisfied customer. Over the last 8 months of owning your top of the line T-Series ThinkPad I have developed the feeling that I have been tricked into buying an inferior product which is/was inaccurately marketed/advertised as the Gold Standard Business class computer. My dealings with service/support has left me feeling like the #1 CSAT rating you received is another of the many lies. My entire experience with Lenovo/IBM/ThinkPad has left my angered, insulted, feeling dooped and therefore *****Expletives removed by Moderator***** off. 

Background:
I'm a young professional and got a job at a HUGE World-Wide Fortune 500 tech company. When I went looking for a new computer, I wanted one that was bullet proof-- like my Dell 600m (I still have it, And I’m using it now; 7 years old, dropped on concrete multiple times, spilled water on it, and all I’ve had to do is replace the hard drive 4 years in). So to get ideas for good computers, I talked to some techs at work and they said they have always had good luck with the T-Series Think Pads. I went on your website and was wowed by the marketing claims and advertisements. In case you forget I'll share them with you and the rest of the world. Feel free to skip, I certainly did not when buying my computer.
--------------------------------------------------
MARKETING ON Lenovo’s WEBSITE REGARDING ThinkPad’s T-series, not specifically T410s.

Currently being advertised:

Think Pad: "The ultimate business tool... Rock solid durability"

"Whether you're an overachiever, or an up and comer, ThinkPad laptops are the tools you need. From thin and Light to heavy duty mobile workstations, they’re BUILT, TESTED and ENHCANCED FOR RELIABILITY, DURABILITY, and speed."

Pealing the onion further I clicked on "Tortured Tested":

"ThinkPad notebooks endure a lot before they ever reach you. We (Lenovo) meticulously design many of them to PASS RUGGED MILITARY TESTS. We outfit them with spill resistant keyboards, roll-cage technology, and shock mounted hard drives. And we test them in ways you can't imagine, BAKING, BATTERING, BLISTERING and BLOWING them with sand."

>I checked and the T400's are supposed to be tested to these military specifications.

THINK PAD T Series:
"Our Finest Technology for your finest hours.... You're propelled to seize any opportunity that knocks on your door. Our HIGH PERFORMANCE Think Pad T Series Laptops complement that drive with LEGENDARY QUALITY, ROCK SOLID DURABILITY, and exceptional security features."

Pealing the onion further under "Heroic Durability":

"Baked, battered, blistered, by the elements over and over, THE T SERIES SETS THE HIGHEST STANDARD FOR CORE THINKPAD STRENGTH. ITS HIT THE GYM THE HARDEST and ENDURED THE TOUGHEST WORKOUTS JUST SO YOU CAN EFFORTLESSLY slicing thought waves of work"

"LAPTOP: Lenovo Think Pad T-Series has been the GOLD STANDARD for business Notebooks"

--------------------------------------------------
Not only was the marketing/advertising great I read reviews on CNET, You tube, Lenovo forums, which gave specifically the T410s high honors. I was a little set back by the steep price but If it would get a "quality", "durable", well tested, "gold standard business computer" that is exactly what I wanted. So I forked over the Two-thousand five-hundred eight-four dollars and forty-one cents ($2,584.41) to get my top of the line "gold standard business computer". With the computer I bought a neoprene laptop case from Amazon which my computer ThinkPad 100% of the time kept when it is not in use, or traveling.

The computer arrived and worked flawlessly for 4 months. I could do my work at work and use it at home exceeding all my needs.
In late January, I noticed My ThinkPad was having issues using with flash based websites and Excel pivot tables with over 500,000 lines of data. I posted my concern on notebook reviews.com (FEBRUARY Post: http://forum.notebookreview.com/lenovo-ibm/554590-410s-slows-down-when-i-watch.html) and did a little of my own research. The outcome was that I thought that my network wireless router was too slow and that flash based websites really do consume a lot of computer resources. So I spent more money to upgrade my internet and upgrade to a wireless N router.

It seemed to help a bit, but randomly my CPU resources would jump up to 100% for minutes at a time and freeze everything I was doing on my computer. I was starting to be a little peeved by this but I gave Lenovo the benefit of the doubt and started updating drivers to figure out what was going on. 

In March, a hair line crack started to form in both the palm rests. Since I have never dropped my computer I was baffled as to how this would happen. So I Googled "T410s palm rest cracking" The whole first page of search results netted people experiencing the same thing. 
To name a few:
> nine page thread on Lenovo Forums!
http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500-and-newer-T-series/Is-this-a-so-called-hidden-feature-of-T400s...
>another separate 1 page thread on Lenovo Forums!
http://forum.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500-and-newer-T-series/T410s-Palmrest-Crack-Last-Thinkpad-Ever/td-p...
>10 posts on this ThinkPad forums
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=93325
>a post on a Mercedes Benz forum
>EVEN A you tube video on how to replace the palm rests!
http://youtu.be/9dQm9W9xM0g

I called Lenovo service mid-March and they said there was no issue with the design of the T410s palm rests or manufacture of the plastic parts and that I would have to pay for it myself; obviously a cover up with all the other people experiencing the same issues as me.

By this point I was pretty unhappy as I would have to again spend more money to fix my ThinkPad with its "Heroic Durability" & "Legendary Quality". So I continued to use it. 

In April more cracks started for form, a few around the wireless switch, one on the left side of the LCD screen bezel and the right side of the LCD screen bezel came loose and popped out. I was able to push it back in, however it would not seat itself correctly and there was a small hairline gap between the screen and bezel. My secondary battery in the auxiliary bay became loose and had would rattle (up and down; z-axis). My computer started making electronic chirping noises and would get pretty hot. The noise would not happen when the CPU was being was being stressed, however it was most noticeable when I would start my computer, and when I did a system restore. 

Every Diagnostics I ran on my computer (ThinkPad tool box, a monthly in-depth scan, stress testing every part with the tool box tools) said there were Zero issues with my computer. However I knew this was not the case.

Once again I called Lenovo service in Atlanta Georgia, and told them my issues. They agreed to send me a box (Ref1: 31rqk4k-2901ct0-xxxxxxx/ Tracking: 1Z 8W2 75E 84 03110953)) and I'd have 30 days to return my computer. My Employer told me that I would have to wipe out all the data on my hard drive as, the information I work with is sensitive, proprietary, and specific to my companies overall health. I soon found it very hard to give up my computer for any length of time as it was the end of a fiscal quarter. Work becomes very hectic (12+ hour days) & I found zero time to wipe out my hard drive. 

So I wanted to wait until a more opportune time; however, in May/June, I was using my computer and experienced something I had never before experienced. My Think Pad just shut off without warning. So I turned my computer back on and it shut off again. I noticed it was really hot so I let it cool off for half and hour and started using it. While playing angry birds on Google Chrome, It shut off again. So I let it cool and turned it back on again. This time, while playing angry birds I took a reading of my CPU core temp (with the Lenovo tool box supplied diagnostics and recorded 4 temperature ratings:

1. at 87 degrees Celsius.

2. at 95 degrees C

3. at 100 degrees C.

4. at 104 degrees C!

Yet every system diagnostic I ran while above 87 degrees C said there were ZERO issues with my “durable” computer. 

I called and got another box near the middle-end of June, wiped my data and sent it off in July.

Dealing with Service:
--------------------
Dealing with service is what has put me over the edge and is why I want a full refund of my purchase price. 

I talked to first guy (David? or Matt?) and he explained what was actually wrong with my computer and that it was not covered under warranty as I must have damaged it and It would cost me $952.00 to fix a Fan, a system board, and all the plastic. 952.00! Which I take stellar care of! He asked if I dropped it and I told him the truth, I dropped it once on June 30th; that it was a soft drop (Soft drop= low level drop onto a padded surface. IE my bed to the carpet) and occurred after I had already Received my second box and that my computer experienced no new issues. I told him that the drop had not damaged it, explained the story above (issues in February with slowness and heat, plastic issues in March/ April, chirping noised in April, requesting the first box in April). So I asked him if he were in my shoes would that be acceptable. He said he did not have the authority to reduce or negate charges but offered to escalate it to someone that could . . . so we did.

About a 3 days later the second guy called me (David? or Matt?). He explained to me the exact same thing the first guy did:
>that there were no issues with the plastic manufacture. 
>Asked me again how many times I dropped it. And afterwards said he would have to go check the shock sensor in my computer to verify what I was telling him! 
> He said Damage was not covered under the warranty and it would cost me 952 dollars to fix.
>He explained that he has no authorization to reduce the cost of the damage and after I explained, once again, everything I told the first service guy. He offered to escalate it.
--> DEJA-VU; way to waste my time at work.

The third service guy was Greg. He called me last week and explained to me Lenovo's practice of how the first guy will call (the one without authorization) and take no responsibility on Lenovo’s behalf and lump all charges together and that's how they arrived at 952.00 (really?). He however has authorization to reduce the cost but wanted to know a few things:
>how many times have I dropped it? 
-I told him the same think I told the other two people. He seemed very skeptical that I did not drop it. 
So, I asked, "Why were there 10+ pages of thread on Lenovo Forums about cracked palm rests"? To which he answered by saying:
>did I let anything fall on it that could have damaged it? --NO!

He said he would reduce the cost from 952 dollars down to 150 dollars. I asked about why I still had to pay anything and to which he replied, that he was working with me, that the fan and board would be covered under warranty and he was being generous to split the cost of the plastic parts with me. I asked why I still had to pay anything. And Greg gave me an ultimatum: Either I pay 150 dollars or they'll return my computer to me completely unfixed. **bleep**!!!! I told him I'd have to think about it. I have not called back as If I do, I will be Irate. I'm not sure what I'm going to do next besides post my experience on the ThinkPad Forum and Lenovo Forum.
--------------------
The bottom Line:
After thinking about it. I do not want to pay for Lenovo's crappy design. I do not want to have them replace the broken parts with the same parts only to have to go through this experience again Every 4 months for the next 3 years (my warranty is 3 years). I do want to be accused of damaging my computer (which really pisses me off. . . I fear that with my processor experiencing 100+ degrees C temperatures, it has permanently damaged the life of the CPU and surrounding parts. 

I feel like all the marketing/advertising on Lenovo's website is lies and I feel dooped into buying a sub-par, non-durable, non-gold standard business class product, cheaply made Chinese product. As a consumer, I do not ever want to own a product in which I will keep having to incur costly fixes if I continue to own it. I don't ever want to have to talk to someone at Lenovo's Service dept as they angered me, by practically accusing me of damaging my computer, and giving me an ultimatum with no reasonable options. Is this how a company which was rated #1 in customer satisfaction should operate? 

I WANT OUT OF THE LENOVO Business!

Wouldn't you?

Extremely Unsatisfied customer,

 

Alex

 

Moderator Note; s/n edited for member's own protection

andyP
Posts: 9,067
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Re: I want out of the Lenovo Business

aghayek,

 

sounds as though you're a little unhappy, please allow me to ask some questions;

 


aghayek wrote:


. My entire experience with Lenovo/IBM/ThinkPad has left my angered, insulted, feeling dooped and therefore *****Expletives removed by Moderator***** off. 


The text regarding expletives being deleted was a part of your original post before I edited your post hiding your s/n for your own protection at two points, why did you include this in your original post as no moderator had read or edited your post before I edited your s/n entries?

 


aghayek wrote:


Once again I called Lenovo service in Atlanta Georgia, and told them my issues. They agreed to send me a box (Ref1: 31rqk4k-2901ct0-xxxxxxx/ Tracking: 1Z 8W2 75E 84 03110953)) and I'd have 30 days to return my computer.


I think 30 days is a more than reasonable time window, but it seems you weren't meet this and therfore lost the opportunity. Would you consider your reasons for not being able to return your system within this time window a possible reason, for members who also cannot let their systems out of their hands, to think about purchasing an On-Site-Next-Business-Day warranty extension?

 

This is a peer to peer forum, moderated by volunteers, did you come today here looking for help from your peers, fellow users?

Andy  


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aghayek
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎02-11-2011
Location: irvine
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Re: I want out of the Lenovo Business

Andy,

 

A little unhappy does not even cover .01% the way I feel toward Lenovo presently. 

 

I am extremely displeased that you removed my feelings as they still hold true, and I believe you are removing them not because they're explatives but becasue they don't hold your company in the highest regard.

 

I don't understand why I would have to purchase a next day business warranty as this computer is marketed as being so Heroicalyl Durable, and has Legendary Quality. I've already spent 100 dollars on upgrade to a wireless N router & upgraded my intenet  inwhich I pay an additonall 15 dollars a month (since february) which presently I'm under the belief was entirely an unnecessary action. Are you asking me to go spend even more money by purchasing a business warranty now? Can you please clarify?

 

While you may personally believe 30 days is enough time to satisfactorially  wipe data off a system and return it to lenovo I do not disagree; However, since I had to go purchase an external hard drive to clear my system, I had to wait until that could be delivered. Additonally Since I must use a notebook everyday for the various meetings I attend, work I perform off-site and I would be unable to work to the effectiveness my work has come to expect. So my work had to create a requisiton order for a computer to be lent to me; have it approved within the budget, and then ordered, shipped and delivered to me. Added to that, the slow beauracry of a large cost sensitive company, tax season, and the end/ beginning of a fiscal quarter, it takes time.  That is what takes so much time.

 

Regarding the Serial number/ tracking reference number.
Numerously, I've experienced doubts amongst the people in your service department with what I tell them and the service employees say they will check data to do their due dilligence and do not. I provided the serial number of my system and the the tracking number as proof that I requested a service box to be sent to me in the april timeframe and you may reference to the issues I was having at that point in time.

 

-Alex

 

 

 

andyP
Posts: 9,067
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Re: I want out of the Lenovo Business

Could you please re-read what I wrote; your expletives were not removed by me or any other moderator, it was a part of your original post.

 

I have not asked you to spend more money, read my post, I asked; "Would you consider your reasons for not being able to return your system within this time window a possible reason, for members who also cannot let their systems out of their hands, to think about purchasing an On-Site-Next-Business-Day warranty extension?"

 

An On-site warranty is, imho, indispensible for someone who cannot, will not, allow their system out of their sight for whatever reason. Legendary Quality aside - Rolls Royce has a warranty department as does Ford, Dell, Sony, HP, Acer, Panasonic, et al. A notebook consists of electronical and mechanical components which can, unfortunately without warning and, unbeknown to the user or manufacturer, fail or present problems at any time without warning.

 

When such circumstances occur the customer is obliged to reasonably assist the manufacturer in the failure diagnosis, if either party should fail in this point they place themseves in a situation where they may have been negligent in fulfilling their obligations.

 

Again, this forum is moderated by volunteers of which I am one. Lenovo is not my company, I do not work for Lenovo.

Andy  


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nibs
Posts: 879
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Re: I want out of the Lenovo Business

One of the main reasons that I buy Lenovo is because they stand by their products with excellent warranty options, including the option to purchase accidental damage protection (ThinkPad Protection), on-site service, and Hard Disk Drive Retention. My personal experience with other companies, including Acer, Gateway, Dell, HP, and Compaq is that they do not stand behind their product and warranties for machines in the same way that Lenovo does. When I purchased my T420, I bought a 3yr ThinkPad Protection + on-site service and the 3yr battery warranty, because as a student I need my computer with me all the time.

 

No product is perfect and issues occur. Laptops are complicated and have many parts. Sometimes there are issues. You need to give the manufacturer an opportunity to fix the issues when they occur instead of allowing the issues to get worse. The warranty is not just some one-sided thing, you have obligations under it as well. I am surprised your work does not have a few spare laptops to loan out.

 

Wireless n vs g shouldn't have made a difference for flash-based websites. You could have easily tested that by plugging into the router with a cable and seeing if the issue went away. Extra internet speed could have made a difference, but you would have seen that in the first day. If there wasn't a difference, then a reasonable person would have canceled the upgrade since there was no benefit. Your personal decisions are not Lenovo's fault. Many things could have caused the speed issues, including a virus or worm, being low on drive space, excessive memory swapping (even with 8GB of memory), a non-TRIM capable SSD, background programs that you installed on the machine, or the server on the website you were visiting being overloaded etc.

 

I don't imagine anything anyone says to you is going to make you feel better about your experience. If I were you, I would pay the $150 to fix the machine, even if I did not want to keep the machine because it will be worth more fixed. After that, you can decide if you want to keep the machine or sell it and purchase a competing product. Since on-site service and hard-drive retention seem important to you, you should probably consider those options if you decide to keep the machine or purchase another product.


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lead_org
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Re: I want out of the Lenovo Business

I think you are been too emotional, but it is understandable as you may want to vent your anger.

However, i think it would be little better that if you can summarise your posts into something shorter, as to what happened (i.e. there is a crack on the palmrest) and what you expect to be done (i.e. repair it as part of the warranty).

This way this would allow other people to go through everything easily and see what sort of assistances they can give you in regards to that.
Regards,

Jin Li

May this year, be the year of 'DO'!

I am a volunteer, and not a paid staff of Lenovo or Microsoft
Mark_Lenovo
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Customer induced damage dispute - depot repair

Aghayek,

 

Sorry to hear that you have had troubles with your T410s system.    Based on your feelings on the matter and the overall situation, I think we should take another look and have discussed with Greg.

 

I believe the case is still open with Greg - suggest you check back with him and let's see what can be done to get this resolved and restore your confidence in Lenovo.

 

Best regards,

 

Mark

____________________________________________

ThinkPads: S30, T43, X60t, X1, W700ds, IdeaPad Y710, IdeaCentre: A300, IdeaPad K1
Mark Hopkins
Program Manager, Lenovo Social Media (Services)
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aghayek
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎02-11-2011
Location: irvine
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Re: Customer induced damage dispute - depot repair

[ Edited ]

Update:

Greg called me multiple times asking me if I wanted to proceed with the billable charges. I was at work as I have been for all these calls and I was still so disheartened with Lenovo for accusing me of damaging my computer that I didn't want to pick up. 

 

I got a phone call from Mr Greg. July 18th at 8:47 am apologizing to me because it was just brought to his attention (that day)  that there is a tip out there for the plastics on the t410s... all charges will not be billed to me "as it should have been all along".  

 

I called back on July 21st as my concern about the damage done to my CPU was not addressed.  Greg was out and his Out of Office refered me to Carolyn.

 

Carolyn looked up my reference number, said that my computer was still at Lenovo because it was awaiting a part but she would escalate the priority so that it would be a the top of the repair list and it would ship out quickly after that. 

 

I voiced my concerns to Carolyn about my CPU being bad (it did expereince significat time above 87 degrees celcius and reached it critical shut off point at 105 degrees celcius multiple times); she said she would speak with an engineer and get back to me with:

-The temperature tolerance for which my computer operates

and

-Documentation that my CPU was not damaged.

She mentioned that the information would take some time and that she would get back to me during the night or the next day. 

I thanked her and told he should could get back to me by email.

 

------

It is now more than 7 days later and I have not received any further contact from Carolyn, or anyone at else Lenovo. 

 

My computer showed up in the mail on Monday 25th; which I just got around to opening today. In the repair sheet, it said replaced pastic part xyz and the reason code is:

user damage--thanks for the kick in the groin.

---

Lenovo, 

 

I've been so disatisfied with your product, marketing, service people and Company. I really do want out of the Lenovo business.

At this point, the only thing that you can do to satisfy this customer is to give me a full refund of my purchase price. 

 

When someone asks me about Lenovo, you can look at it, as I do, from one of two view points:

 

Yes, I had a problem with Lenovo, but they rectified it for me. 

or

Yes and I still has a problem with Lenovo, my computer is a constant reminder about it and tell them that

-Lenovo accused me of damaging my product, when I didn't.

-Three of Lenovo's service folks denied that there was a design/ manufacture issue only to "discover" after multiple attempts to point out a 10 page long thread on their own forum,  that in-fact there actually is a problem..

--all the meanwhile, Lenovo was wasting my valuable time, my companies valuable time

--and that I will never, ever, buy a Lenovo product again because of all the issues and head-aches I had to deal with on their top of the line, military tested, gold-standard business class computer that crapped out on me in 8 months. 

 

-Alex :mansad:

 

 

 

Note from Moderator:  Employee name/e-mail/phone removed to protect their privacy per the forum rules.

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nostradamus
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎08-11-2011
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Re: Customer induced damage dispute - depot repair

Alex,

 

  I feel your pain:

 

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/General-Discussion/D%C3%A9j%C3%A0-vu-I-want-out-of-the-Lenovo-Business-2...

 

Not to worry though:

 

 

For every one that complains there are at least 25 who do not. Dissatisfied customers by word of mouth will tell eight to sixteen others about their dissatisfaction.  With the web some are now telling thousands. 91% of dissatisfied customers never purchase goods or services from the company again. A prompt effort to resolve a dissatisfied customer's issue will result in about 85% of them as repeat customers Depending upon the business, new customer sales may cost 4 to 100 times that of a sale to an existing customer.

 

-- http://www.adamssixsigma.com/Newsletters/customers_results.htm

 

Maybe the Lenovo VP of Marketing should read that.

 

Brian

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aghayek
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎02-11-2011
Location: irvine
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Re: Customer induced damage dispute - depot repair

You know, I've heard that before. I believe my experience has already persuaded 3 coworks from buying a lenovo.