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canyon289
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎09-30-2009
Location: USA
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Windows Refund

I have an s10-2 and I wanted a rebate on my Windows XP Home installation. The EULA clearly states that I can receive a rebate from the manufacturer. No one I called at Lenovo support was able to help me. Who should I talk to to figure out the details of this rebate?

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Mark_Lenovo
Posts: 7,991
Registered: ‎11-19-2007
Location: RTP, North Carolina

Re: Windows Refund

Canyon289,

 

I think there may be a bit of misinterpretation here...what the EULA says is that you may choose not to accept it and may return for a refund.   Lenovo's policy is that the preload is part of the entire product and we are not refunding Windows OS licenses. (see red highlight section of the return policy)

 

You may arrange to return the S10-2 if you don't wish to keep the system and the OS license.   Our returns policy is as follows:

 

Return products

Lenovo will accept the return or exchange of a product in its original, sealed package for a full refund in cases of Lenovo error. Returns allowed for any other reason will be subject to a restocking fee equal to 15% of the purchase amount. All returns must be initiated within 21 days of the invoice date. Lenovo does not provide refunds or credits for portions of a packaged offering provided at a single price or for preloaded programs installed by Lenovo. For service and warranty issues, contact warranty support at 1 800 426 7378. For inquiries relating to third party (non Lenovo) products, contact the third party directly.

To initiate a return, contact 1-866-428-4465 to obtain an RMA (Return Merchandise Authorization). Any authorized return must include the product and all accessories in the unopened original packaging, along with all documentation (including invoice, RMA and original shipping label), and must be received at the Lenovo National Return Center within 10 days of obtaining the RMA. Incomplete returns will not be accepted for any reason. Returns that do not follow these steps may be refused by Lenovo, and customer assumes risk of loss and damage for packages returned without an RMA. Please allow 8-10 business days after the item is returned for the processing of your credit.

Best regards,

 

Mark

____________________________________________

ThinkPads: S30, T43, X60t, X1, W700ds, IdeaPad Y710, IdeaCentre: A300, IdeaPad K1
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shmerl
Posts: 8
Registered: ‎01-10-2010
Location: USA
0

Re: Windows Refund

> Lenovo does not provide refunds or credits for portions of a packaged

> offering provided at a single price or for preloaded programs installed by Lenovo.

 

Thanks for the clarification Mark. Does it mean that Lenovo violates the Microsoft EULA which comes together with preinstalled Windows, which states:

 

By installing, copying, downloading, accessing or otherwise using the SOFTWARE, you agree to be bound by the terms of this EULA. If you do not agree to the terms of this EULA, you may not use or copy the SOFTWARE, and you should promptly contact Manufacturer for instructions on return of the unused product(s) in accordance with Manufacturer’s return policies.

 

I.e. MS EULA clearly state that it's up to the manufacturer to refund the customer for declined Windows. It doesn't state that he can't use the machine itself. It mentions "in accordance with Manufacturer's return policies". Do you mean that Lenovo's policy denies the option of returning the Windows only, and requires to return the computer too? Doesn't it violate customer rights to use the computer with other operating systems of his/her choice?

ajkula66
Posts: 7,628
Kudos: 757
Solutions: 800
Registered: ‎11-23-2007
Location: USA

Re: Windows Refund

Welcome to the forum, shmerl!


My understanding (which may be wrong since I don't work for Lenovo) is that Lenovo treats the OS a part of the computer, and therefore doesn't allow a "partial return" like it wouldn't accept a return of a LCD or CPU...


I'm not sure I understand the part about violating customer's rights, though. You can wipe the drive and install Linux, DOS or whatever you choose to run on the particular machine. The fact that one is buying a finished product (which in this case means with an operating system installed/bundled) doesn't prevent him/her from customizing it to any specs available on their own accord.


This was the policy in the IBM days as well, unless you were a large corporate customer. Certain IBM and Lenovo machines have been shipped with Linux, but the demand was obviously insufficient for that option to survive.


Fact of the matter is that majority of users require Windows pre-installed in some shape or form. We can discuss the operating systems ad nauseam and it won't change anything. In order to be competitive, Lenovo has to bundle Windows OS with the purchase, and that's the beginning and the end of the story.


Personally, I've been running Linux on my ThinkPads in the IBM days and I still do that nowadays. It was the hardware that I was buying these machines for, not the software. If the price seemed acceptable, I didn't care about the software.


My $0.02 only...

Cheers,

George




In daily use: R60F, R500F, T61, T410

Collecting dust: T60

Enjoying retirement: A31p, T42p,

Non-ThinkPads: Panasonic CF-31 & CF-52, HP 8760W




Starting Thursday, 08/14/2014 I'll be away from the forums until further notice. Please do NOT send private messages since I won't be able to read them. Thank you.
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shmerl
Posts: 8
Registered: ‎01-10-2010
Location: USA
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Re: Windows Refund

> My understanding (which may be wrong since I don't work for Lenovo) is that Lenovo treats the OS a part of

> the computer, and therefore doesn't allow a "partial return" like it wouldn't accept a return of a LCD or

> CPU...  I'm not sure I understand the part about violating customer's rights, though.


I'm not a lawyer, but it is only logical, that such kind of  "treating" violates customer rights. It's like saying that you can't buy any kind of gas for your car, and should buy only a type shipped by your car manufacturer. Do you think it makes any sense? From what I was able to find out, such approach might very well violate customer protection laws.


> You can wipe the drive and install Linux, DOS or whatever you choose to run on the particular machine. The

> fact that one is buying a  finished product (which in this case means with an operating system

> installed/bundled) doesn't prevent him/her from customizing it to any specs available on their own accord.

 

Sure you can. But in the end - you don't get your money back for something you didn't intend to buy and use. And therefore  it's restricting you by forcing to buy an unneeded Windows license, in order to get a computer itself.

 

> In order to be competitive, Lenovo has to bundle Windows OS with the purchase, and that's the beginning and

> the end of the story.

 

This isn't really a matter of competition. Rather it's a policy caused by money loss. I.e. if Lenovo would graciously and rightfully return money for unwanted Windows licenses - it probably wouldn't get money back from MS, or even would lose on rebates for preinstalled Windows. (See for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_refund ). Situation is of course caused by Microsoft in the first place, but Lenovo just goes along with it in order not to lose money. Which is understandable, but not good at all. Those who are at loss - are customers. The question is - how legal that is.


> Personally, I've been running Linux on my ThinkPads in the IBM days and I still do that nowadays. It was the

> hardware that I was buying these machines for, not the software. If the price seemed acceptable, I didn't

> care about the software.

 

I'm running OpenSolaris and Linux, and like ThinkPads as professional and well supported laptops for those platforms. But the Windows bundling policy is just unfair and wrong. Whatever is the price - it doesn't make any sense to pay for something you don't intend to use especially since it's not part of a computer itself anyway.

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ottoteixeira
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎03-26-2010
Location: Brazil
0

Re: Windows Refund

Lenovo Brasil told me the same, but I was refunded after speaking to local consumer rights organ.

OS was Windows XP Home OEM and the computer was a S10e netbook.

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buntwo
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎04-01-2010
Location: USA
0

Lack of options

I just called customer support and asked about ordering a w510 notebook without windows so i can install Debian on it.  The lady politely told me that selling the notebook without windows was not an option.  This makes me rage.  Why should I be forced to pay hundreds of dollars for something to be bundled with a laptop that I will never use?  I've always admired thinkpad/lenovo for great compatability with Linux, but it seems that the force-feeding of windows is still going strong.  I'm sure there is a large amount of customers that are on the fence over what brand to buy to get a levono if this was an option.  I hope the staff will listen and make a choice of OS or lack thereof is something they will cater to in the future.  Thank you.

 

Regards.

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buntwo
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎04-01-2010
Location: USA
0

Re: Windows Refund

shmerl explained that perfectly.  I've been in the windows refund dilemma before and how lenovo operates is: "After we have your money, we don't care"  but in a polite, condecending way.  The manufacture will eventually offer you a refund if you nag them ALOT, and in my case, I was offered $30 (a fraction of what it costs) and wanted me to sign a non-disclosure agreement of which I decided to refuse.  I decided to go with asus for my last PC simply because they were the only one who were selling a PC without the windows license that I liked.   The way that windows is being handled I can't imagine being legal, and it certainly isn't right.

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ottoteixeira
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎03-26-2010
Location: Brazil
0

Re: Windows Refund

I was refunded R$ 229,00, which is about USD 129,00. The netbook was at a promotional price (R$ 777,00). That was a 30% rebate.

 

 

1st level support will repeatedly tell you the refund is not possible and will keep transferring you. One said I didn't pay for Windows and another one said that the refund part of the license was a bug.

You need to talk to customer delight people or someone that can actually solve your problem, or else they will make you give up.

lead_org
Posts: 20,905
Topics: 128
Kudos: 1,253
Solutions: 1,344
Registered: ‎12-19-2008
Location: Australia, Melbourne
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Re: Lack of options

[ Edited ]

 


buntwo wrote:

I just called customer support and asked about ordering a w510 notebook without windows so i can install Debian on it.  The lady politely told me that selling the notebook without windows was not an option.  This makes me rage.  Why should I be forced to pay hundreds of dollars for something to be bundled with a laptop that I will never use?  I've always admired thinkpad/lenovo for great compatability with Linux, but it seems that the force-feeding of windows is still going strong.  I'm sure there is a large amount of customers that are on the fence over what brand to buy to get a levono if this was an option.  I hope the staff will listen and make a choice of OS or lack thereof is something they will cater to in the future.  Thank you.

 

Regards.


 

There is hardly any companies that sell laptops without OS, unless you order through the corporate channel. This is the market reality. Also, Lenovo won't charge you hundreds of dollars for these OS, as these OS are not retail version but are OEM version, the profit level on these OS options are minimal. 

 

You are already seeing the future, Microsoft OS will be on your laptops whether you like it or not. Just like Macbook/Pro is going to be bundled with Mac OS whether people like it or not. 

 

 

Regards,

Jin Li

May this year, be the year of 'DO'!

I am a volunteer, and not a paid staff of Lenovo or Microsoft