Buying Thinkpad without Operating System

[lead_org Microsoft MVP Contributor]

this is absolutely fine for people whom have nothing to do during the business hours... but from a comparative advantage point of view, the hours you waste on calling and chasing them up could be better directed to work, which should yield you more dollars per hour then you will ever likely to get from the refund... 

[JDobmeier]

That depends on my willingness to pay for the opportunity to uphold my rights as a consumer in a free society. The only reason M$ is able to wield their market power so effectively is because so few call them out on it. If consumers would exercise their rights en masse all computer makers would be able to offer models w/o OS without fear of monopolistic recrimination.

[Eudoxus]

1) How can you know what the majority of consumers would do if there were possibility to buy and an OSless machine?

2) As far as I can tell the majority of people have better things to do. They do not care what OS their computer runs as far everything works as expected.

3) Couple of years when ASUS introduced EEPC, consumers were able to choose between Windows XP and linux preinstalled versions. As far as I know most users went for XP and many who bought linux version excersised their rights to install windows on their systems.

4) The fact is that till now there are no viable conteders for microsoft. No companu has managed to produce an Windows killer OS. (There is no reason to mention Mac OSX as it it illegal to install it on non Apple hardware.) So what would a normal consumer do with an OSless pile of hardware.

[JDobmeier]

If you don't want a product there should be no compulsion to purchase it. Compulsory transactions other than taxes have no place in a free market regardless of whether or not the majority would decide of their own free will to participate in them.

[Eudoxus]

If you buy a ThinkPad you usually know that it has one or other version of windows preinstalled, isn't it? When you make your decision wheteh to buy it or not it is the whole package that you ar going to decide about. Either you buy it or not. If the windows is a show-stoper for you, then you do not buy a ThinkPad. In that case you try to find a company which sells machines without windows. So, the question is -- what is compulsory about that? Does lenovo or any other hardware porducer has a duty to sell windowless machines? They sell what would bring them profit. Apple sells their machines with MacOS X preinstalled. Is that wrong too? I do not see any reasons why somebody should think so.

Message Edited by Eudoxus on 08-04-2009 11:39 PM

[JDobmeier]

Why should I be denied a refund when the EULA explicitly states that I am entitled to one? If it were legally possible for that clause to be omitted I'm sure it would have been by now.

[lead_org Microsoft MVP Contributor]

i guess if you have lot of free time and don't have a real job, then getting a hundred dollar from the manufacturer seems to be a worthwhile adventure. Now that Google is getting much too powerful and rich, are you thinking about boycotting Google too? 

As it is said, Lenovo do offer OS less systems if you buy it through corporate channel, if you can find enough people with similar idea about paying Microsoft OS and they are willing to buy Thinkpads, then you could always try that channel. Until then you either buy a laptop with OS and seek a time wasting refund or find a laptop that don't offer OS.  

[patton73]

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lead_org wrote:

2) what do you mean Lenovo checks the thinkpad hardware only if the OS is installed?

3) Power users?? Even power users use OS of some sort.... and many power users have several OS installed on their machine.... Maybe power users with too much time on their hand.... If you don't want use Microsoft OS, then don't use it... its only one hundred dollar difference... not that much of a big deal. Or you can take up the issue up with Microsoft.

Or find people with similar distaste for any OS, and buy through the corporate channel with no OS.

5) IBM is the people whom made the Microsoft rich, read a bit about IBM/Microsoft business dealing. The reasons that the no windows key was included was pure politics on IBM parts in the latter year, when everyone else was using it on their laptop. 

Maybe for you Microsoft OS can be avoided, but for many industries where softwares are only written for windows, this is not a option.... try using HYSYS in Linux...  

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For point 2)  as stated by Mar_Lenovo, where he was saying that about the warranty on hardware is better to have an OS preinstalled, i was replying that i cannot believe that Lenovo tests the hardware only if an OS is installed. There should be obviously a different industry's way to test hardware without any OS.

About point 3) Power users use anything. But this does not mean that you must be forced to pay tax to MS for that.

About point 5) I can only say that the windows key is useless (exactly identical to ctrl-esc). And I agreed a lot with the IBM politics in not adding such a key.

Finally i would like you to understand that is not true that  EVERYONE uses windows. So i would like to have an option to avoid to pay that OS and more i do not want to be forced to enter into a long legal and burocratical  issue to receive my refund back.

The world is changing around the MS world you must be aware of that. And more if Google one day will replace MS in preistalling OS i will ask the constructors to give me the option of "no OS" preistalled.

Finally if you are forced to use software that runs only on windows you should raise the issue to the right people (that is not me), and exactly the software houses that  produce the software.

[patton73]

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Eudoxus wrote:

Apple sells their machines with MacOS X preinstalled. Is that wrong too? I do not see any reasons why somebody should think so.

Message Edited by Eudoxus on 08-04-2009 11:39 PM

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Well about that i can replay that Apple is free to sell their Systems with their OS preinstalled because they produces both.

I am obviously free to not buy a Mac if i do not like it. Lenovo only produces HW. If Lenovo makes an OS and preistalls it on their HW i would not say anything because they are free to do it. 

Here the situation is completely different. If i buy a Lenovo i must pay to MS too. Very Very different. I chose Lenovo not MS. Is that clear?

[Eudoxus]

I fail to see there any substantial difference between Apple and Lenovo. That's true Apple makes Mac OS X. But so what? If you buy a mac you get Mac OS X preinstalled and pay for the licence.  In the similar vein Lenovo is free to preinstall on their systems whatever they like as soon as somebody buys it. The problem seems to be in that for one or another reason you happen to hate a particular software company and there is no way to argue against the mood.