Triuble Cloning Think Pad's original hard drive using Symantec Ghost

[wkusyk]

Have anybody here try cloning Think Pad's hard drive and restoring it onto another HD using Symantec Ghost utility?

Every time I create an image and restore it, it won't boot.

It beeps and cursor is blinking in the top right corner of the screen.

Any ideas?

[dawog]

See my reply on "R61e Hard Drive replacement."  I tried cloning my existing 80GB hard drive onto a WD 250GB hard drive using Acronis True Image Home.  I had it expand the main partition from 67GB to max available and left the "Recovery" partition the same size (6.705GB).

After installing the new drive, I get exactly the same results as you.  In addition, neither the "ThinkPad" button nor F11 will access the Recovery mode.  I booted up with Paragon's Hard Disk Recovery CD and confirmed that the new drive was recognized and accessible, and that the main partition was "Active" and the Recovery partition was "hidden", just like on the original drive.  I'm wondering if it has something to do with the relocation of the recovery partition.

Hopefully someone else might have a suggestion as to what to try next.  I really don't want to have to reinstall Windows XP Pro from scratch (and load up all the software I spent the last few days putting on the original 80Gb hard drive).

Bill

[dawog]

I just got off the phone w/Lenovo customer support.  Although I didn't get the answer I was hoping for, they were very helpful.  They stated that the problem IS with the recovery partition.  They said the best way to migrate to a larger hard drive was to purchase the Recovery Discs ($45?) from Lenovo (1-800-263-2769) and they will install everything on your new hard drive that was on the original 80GB hard drive.  They also stated that you can't use recovery disks that you make from the installed software on your current 80GB hard drive as it will only reinstall on the same hard drive (and NOT on a larger one).

I asked about cloning an "exact" copy of the 80GB onto a 250 GB hard drive (leaving ~157 GB unallocated space) and if that might work.  They said it might.  Then I could create another logical drive out of the unallocated space left over.  I'm going to try this tomorrow night, as it looks like this is the only way I can salvage all the software I've already installed on the original hard drive.

I'll report back tomorrow night as to whether or not I had any success.

-Bill

[dawog]

SUCCESS!  I was able to clone my original R61e 80GB hard drive to a new WD 250GB hard drive this morning. Everything works great, including the ThinkVantage blue button which accesses the "Rescue & Recovery" partition.  This time I used Paragon Hard Disk Manager to clone the disk instead of Acronis True Image (although Acronis probably would have worked, too).  These are the steps I followed:

1.  Boot up on Paragon's Hard Disk Manager 2008 Recovery CD and Select "Copy Hard Disk" from top menu
2.  Copy original 80GB disk (both partitions) to attached 250 GB hard drive.  Be sure to DESELECT "proportional enlargement" of the partitions.  I believe you want the partitions on the new hard drive to be exactly the same size as the original, which will leave a 158GB of unallocated space on the new hard drive.
3.  Do not reboot!  Shut down the laptop & disconnect the 250GB from USB port.  I read numerous posts on other web sites that said you do not want to reboot and let XP "see" both the original 80GB hard drive & the newly cloned 250GB hard drive, as it will "remember" the new drive letters and you may not be able to boot up on the newly cloned drive.  This may have been my problem with my last cloning attempt, as I wanted to "check-out" the new disk after cloning.  (Although, Lenovo Customer Support told me that you cannot clone to a larger drive AND increase the partition sizes at the same time, which is what I did on the first cloning attempt.)
4.  Remove power & battery from laptop.
5.  Remove internal 80GB hard drive, install newly cloned 250GB hard drive in tray, attach side rubber rails, and slide back into laptop. (see "Service & Troubleshooting Guide" on Lenovo's web site for instructions) <http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=MIGR-67889>
6.  Reconnect battery (& power, if desired) and reboot into Windows.
7.  Using partition software (I used Paragon Hard Disk Manager), select the 6.7GB "hidden" partition and move it to the end of the drive.
8.  Using partition software, expand the primary partition (mine was 67.8GB) and increase it to use up all the unallocated space left on the drive (I had 158GB unallocated space).  This resulted in a 226.1GB primary partition and the 6.7 "hidden" recovery partition is at the end of the drive.

I stated the ThinkVantage button worked at start-up and the "Rescue & Recovery" application started up fine.  What I don't know is if it will "restore" the laptop to it's original state with the new 250GB hard drive.  Lenovo Customer Support stated that it would only restore to the original 80GB hard drive, and that I needed to purchase their recovery disks ($45) in order to restore to a larger hard drive.

-Bill

[mynona1]

This will be my only posting in this forum as I won't be able to remember the password they have forced me to select.

Anyway. I also wanted to clone an existing 100 GB drive in my R61 on to a 250 GB.

There is a 20 GB C: and a 80 GB D:

With Acronis 10.0 software I was able to clone AND sucessfully reboot with the new disk because as suggested I kept the partition sizes as they are on the 100GB disc. So I did not select the default proposal which would increase both partitions.

Before it didn't work.

Then I increased D: from  80 GB on the cloned disk to 230 GB with partition magic 7.0 which still works (despite it says "Works with 80GB hard disks....)

Strange enough Acronis default settings worked fine on a Dell and an ASUS laptop

Thanks for your help

Moderator Note; Please correct your location in your profile as required by the forum rules; Location is important when offering advice, as sales, service, and product options may not be consistent country to country. (Also within Europe)

Message Edited by andyP on 06-22-2008 09:52 PM

[mike-s]

Cheers for the instructions there dawog!! I have had paragon installed for ages on the laptop for ages so i could tweak other hard drives connected via USB enclosures. I didn't think anything of it all until you suggested it.

I had wasted hours trying to do what i've done successfully in the past, even with this laptop (that was going from a 10 to a 40gb drive as the 10 was physically failing). Which is, 1) take the drive out, put it on a 2.5 to 3.5 converter and hook it up to another pc. 2) use systemrescuecd to create a NTFS partition and copy the new data across 3) put the new drive in, use a xp recovery disk and run fixboot & fixmbr and have it work. It was beyond me why it was failing, and i had tried at least a half dozen different ways.

I hooked the new drive up via the usb port, ran paragon and cloned it bit-identical, THEN expanded it and it worked a treat.

Thankyou once again for the tip, i had started getting to the point where i was nearly pulling hair out!

Mike

Message Edited by mike-s on 07-28-2008 04:22 AM

[Bruce443]

Hi.  You guys are fantastic!  I also have an R40, and I've been driving myself crazy trying to do this with Ghost.  So after reading dawog's post, I bought Paragon's Hard Disk manager.  It was almost perfect.  I'm 99% of the way there, so can you maybe tell me what I'm doing wrong?

I want to clone a 40gb hard disk to a 120gb.  Before I began, the 40gb drive showed the disk size as 33.3.  (Plus 6.7 hidden gives me the 40 gb)

I followed all the instructions, and it went perfectly --

1) Booting from the Paragon Hard Disk manager 2008 CD, and selecting "Copy Hard Disk".

2) Deslecting "proportional enlargement," and chosing HD Raw copy  (which the tech guys at Paragon recommended, to force a sector by sector copy.)  I then hit copy.

3) When it was finished, the newly cloned 120 gb disk showed the primary partition was 33.3.  I couldn't find or see the "hidden partition," but I assumed it was still here.  The rest of the drive (87mb) displayed as unpartitioned, and empty.

4) I turned the computer off, and replaced my old 40 gb drive with the new 120.  I rebooted, (into the new 120 drive, the old drive was disconnected), and XP started perfectly.  I shut down.  (I just wanted to make sure it booted at all, which it didn't with Ghost.  I wanted to make sure I had my operating system, and all my files.)  So far, so good -- although it was still showing that the primary partitoin was 33.3, and I couldn't see the hidden partition. 

And right here is where it  went wrong:  On the reboot, I wanted to see if the "Thinkvantage" button worked.  When I pressed during the restart, the screen had the IBM logo (and the "press thinkvantage button to interrupt normal start), it went straight into a blue-screen bios set-up.  No IBM pre-desktop.)

So at this point, I had lost the pre-desktop/hidden partition.  Continuing on anyway, I resized the primary partition.  This worked fine.

But when I was finished, here's what I had:  A cloned hard drive, (120gb) that boots in XP, but doesn't have the "hidden" 6.7 mb recovery  partition.

Did I do something wrong?  Any advice?  (At the very worst, I still have the old 40gb drive, which still has the recovery partition on it, if everything were to go wrong.  But I'd love to have the 120 with the recovery partition.)

Thanks in advance for any help/advice you can offer. 

Message Edited by Bruce443 on 08-12-2008 09:21 PM

[dawog]

Hi...

My advice?  Unless you want to do this over again, I'd keep what you've got.  When I finished copying the orig 80GB drive to my new 250GB HD, I could see both partitions (before moving & expandind) - the primary (73.3GB) and the hidden (6.7GB).  If you can't see your 6.7 GB hidden partition, then I'd assume that it wasn't copied.  In addiiton, I did not force a "Sector by Sector" copy (not that that had anything to do with it, but who knows?).

Actually, I'm envious!  I despise hidden partitions, as I'm a big believer in the manufacturer giving the buyer his or her own copy of the OS installation disks.  Also, I was afraid that you couldn't delete the hidden partition, since it is tied in with the boot process. The only reason I thought it would be useful to keep the hidden partition was if I ever wanted to sell or give away the laptop, at which point I could use "Rescue & Recovery" to restore the laptop hard drive to it's original condition.  Be advised tho' that Lenovo Cust Service said it would only restore to the same size drive as the original hard drive, and to restore to a larger HD I'd have to purchase their recovery disks.

Just my two cents worth.  Since I usually use my computers/laptops until they die a slow death, I'm actually considering deleting the hidden partition just to reclaim the space.  I do my own backups and make an image of my current drive every month with either Acronis or Paragon, so it's not likely I'll ever use ThinkPad's Rescue & Recovery.

-Bill  (dawog)

[mike-s]

On the original drive, can you fire up paragon and see if it can see the hidden partition? from the sounds of what you said happened i would wonder if you did "clone partition" instead of "clone hard drive". Clone Hard drive should copy all physical partitions across in a bit-copy as you said. Also while you have the original drive in there & running as the primary, could you plug in the second drive and see if paragon can find the second partition? how is this second drive connecting? via a usb port & enclosure? or is it in a secondary drive caddy (i.e. replacing the cdrom,  in its own caddy, etc)

I didn't have a hidden partition on my computer to be truthfull, only an operational c: (and a couple of recovery cd's instead of the partition) so that made my life a loat easier.

let me know how you go, im trying to figure out what is wrong, you never knoew it may be one silly checkbox that's different.

 Oh and lastly, while i remember, what version of disk manager did you get? i used 8.0 like the other guy, it may behave differently if you've got a newer release.  

[Bruce443]

Hi -- thanks for your incredibly fast answers.  (Under an hour!)  Here's where I come out:

As Mike-s suggested, I put the original drive back in.  I can't see the hidden partition.  (But I assume it's still there, as there's 6.7 gb of missing drive space.)  And when I put the second (120 gb) into the disk caddy, Paragon doesn't see any hidden partitions, either.  But one thing I noticed, when I was changing the partition size, is that during the operation, it said something about "*\" drive.  So I think I lost the hidden partition during the resizing of the partition.  Or maybe not.  And I'm using the latest version of Paragon Hard Disk manager, 2008.

Beats me.

Which is why I'm inclined to agree with Bill's advice:  The 120gb works, it's faster.  (This is my old thinkpad, from 2002, that I've turned over to my wife.) I think I'm going to leave well enough alone.  (And I agree that Lenovo should either provide recovery disks, or unhide them.)  Equally important, I've got the old 40gb drive; it still works, I just wanted more space, and I decided I was pushing that drive in terms of life-expectency.  I figure that If everything really went to hell with the new drive, (which I back up, anway,) I could always revert to the 40gb, load on the lost files, and then start all over again.

I just want to ask one last question:  As it is, with all the service patches and everything else, XP - the cab files, etc - exists on the C: drive, anyway, right?  (If you want to add features?)  Does losing the hidden partition effect "change features" in XP?  If it doesn't - and the hidden partition is really just for restoring the machine to the original state, then I really haven't lost anything by not having it.  And if I want to sell the computer, (there's always a market for these things; I just sold a Toshiba satellite from 1997 on ebay), I could always put the 40gb back in, and run the factory recovery that still exists on the hidden partition there, and sell it as a clean machine.

Again, thanks for all your advice.  And one final note: I really hated Ghost.   It's typical Symantic softare:  It starts 400 processes you don't want, hooks itself into starting automatically, doesn't offer any options to stop this, and basically degrades performance.  I keep having this vision of Symantic programmers sitting around cackling:  "The idiots will never be able to get this off the computer."  They're evil.  They just can't leave well enough alone; they always go too far.

Meanwhile, I'm back working on my other computer, which is a 7 month old 15.4" widescreen R61 with a 7200 rpm hard drive, discreet graphics, the camera, bluetooth, fingerprint reader and Vista ultimate.  It's fantastic. (Yeah, on a clean install Vista works fine.  I wouldn't upgrade.  But on the other hand, I'd stay away from Office 2007 Seven months into it, I still dislike the ribbons in Word 2007 and think it's nowhere as good as Word 2003.  Don't bother.)

Bruce

Message Edited by Bruce443 on 08-12-2008 11:22 PM

Message Edited by Bruce443 on 08-12-2008 11:25 PM