Support in other languages: 
Reply
Ctrl-Alt-Del
HDOSIBM
Posts: 8
Registered: ‎04-30-2008
Location: new mexico
0

Re: Only Widescreen T61s Available Now???

[ Edited ]
There was a pretty good supply of ThinkPad's equipped with standard screens (SXGA+) at the outlet store as early as last night. Now it looks like someone took advantage of the rare standard screen T-Series Models and purchased ALL T61 units with that option. I imagine they will show up on eBay for a premium price.

http://stores.channeladvisor.com/LenovoOutlet/store/category.aspx?&Page=1&Sort=2&catid=19138 

Why Lenovo, Why?

I would hate to read a wide aspect ratio book! If widescreen becomes the only option available than web designers will start building web pages at wider and wider dimensions to fill the white space. That is like taking your favorite book and reading it in a widescreen format. It would have to be turned 90 degrees and you would have to read it by flipping the pages from bottom to top.

Then what? Your standard printers would have to print NEW 11" x 8 1/2" (might as well change the name right) paper to accommodate the wider websites? Let me see, I want to print this page luckily I have the landscape print set as default on my printer. Darn it, remind me to buy 12 NEW wide ratio binders at Staples.
 
Is 1024 x 768 NOT wide enough already? I certainly think so.

Someone or some organization, wakeup!

NOT EVERYONE WATCHES MOVIES ON THEIR LAPTOPS.

- HDOSIBM



Message Edited by HDOSIBM on 05-14-2008 04:59 AM
T61, 14.1 SXGA+ (Last Of The 4:3), 2.5 Duo Core, 4GB Ram, 160GB 7200 RPM, Intel 1GB Turbo Memory, Vista Business 64 Bit Edition.
Bit Torrent
wjli2
Posts: 3,213
Registered: ‎02-16-2008
Location: Australia
0

Re: Only Widescreen T61s Available Now???

It is no longer profitable to produce standard ratio screens.
802.11n
icantux
Posts: 265
Registered: ‎02-04-2008
Location: Canada
0

Re: Only Widescreen T61s Available Now???



wjli2 wrote:
why worry about something so trivial, ...  people want good products cheap, ....


Now there, sir, is an oxymoron. Those two terms are mutually exclusive in our reality. Good products do not come cheap these days, and cheap products are ... well, cheap. Besides, what the masses "want" isn't always what the majority *really* wants ... The notion of the "masses" is easily conjured up by marketing "specialists". What does "cheap" do to consumers anyways? Ah yeah: if it breaks, throw it away - because it's "cheap" - also "cheapens" the brand regardless of what gimmicks are included.

I can name you plenty of people in two major corporations, including their IT personnel, that are simply royally ticked off for having only the choice of a widescreen thinkpad. Upset so far as to offer suggestions to the buyers of such equipment not to bother with IBM/Lenovo anymore as the playing field is now even... Dell, Toshiba, Fujitsu, Panasonic are all fair game as far as their next mass purchase is concerned. Lenovo had a nice niche market they inherited from IBM and they threw that out the window.

Have you ever spoken with anyone who travels a lot - asked them if they "love" to lug around these widescreen beasts? I'm sure you haven't, because most will tell you that it's more than a pain in the neck.

Punch Card
MattB
Posts: 45
Registered: ‎02-13-2008
Location: Boston, MA
0

Re: Only Widescreen T61s Available Now???



wjli2 wrote:
It is no longer profitable to produce standard ratio screens.


That's not strictly true. If Lenovo were to continue selling 4:3 models at an increased price to compensate for the increased costs of the screens (how much more expensive could they really be?), they could make a profit on them. The T61 wasn't originally going to offer a 4:3 screen, but it happened due to customer demand. There's sufficient demand out there for the 4:3 screens, but Lenovo doesn't have much of an incentive to offer them since a widescreen notebook is a close enough substitute that a majority of the people who would buy a 4:3 notebook would just buy the widescreen model.
Bit Torrent
wjli2
Posts: 3,213
Registered: ‎02-16-2008
Location: Australia
0

Re: Only Widescreen T61s Available Now???

[ Edited ]
Maybe Matt the fact that Lenovo is trying to gain the acceptance of wider audience other than just notebook enthusiasts, is one of the key reasons that it no longer offer the standard aspect ratio LCD. To most novice they wouldn't know the pro and cons of widescreen and standard screen unless you show them, most of them probably wouldn't care either way, as the name, keen price and quality is what will drive them to thinkpad. While, the LCD supplier is pricing an equivalent widescreen unit maybe at 30% lower than a standard screen, at the same time you are trying to lower your manufacturing costs inorder to compete competitively with other laptop companies.....

It is not cheap to maintain a whole production process to manufacture the standard screen laptops, as nearly all of the parts are not interchangeable with the widescreen model. The chassis, motherboard, screen, casing, keyboards, pretty much everything other than harddrive and ultrabay has to be made specially for it.... do you know how expensive that is???? This works against the market mechanisms, how would they recuperate the costs??? Charging the same old prices that IBM use to charge???

One reason that i didn't buy Thinkpad as my first laptop, is due to the significantly higher capital costs, nearly 40% higher than an equivalent unit from HP/Compaq, etc.

You know why Toyota makes so much profit, while GM and Ford are struggling even though they produce more cars???? Its because that Toyota's car use basically all the same parts and same base throughout their range, which significantly drives down their costs. BMW in Australia currently offer 178 or so different model of cars, and right now they are thinking of reducing it to 58.

This decision by BMW to shrink the models offering, is due to the high costs of keeping an inventory of every model car in Australia, so the customer don't have to wait 3 months for a delivery from Thailand or European Union. As a compensation BMW offers trim level upgrade for no extra costs. This formula is basically what Lenovo is using, which is to consolidate their product line and reduce prices.

If market demand swayed towards 4:3 aspect ratio laptop, then Lenovo would most likely offer that. But current market demand is clearly against 4:3 aspect ratio laptop, so Lenovo is not going to produce something that only 5% of customers would think about wanting it. You are a minority, unless you can persuade the majority then there is nothing you or Lenovo can do.

Message Edited by wjli2 on 05-15-2008 01:09 PM
Bit Torrent
wjli2
Posts: 3,213
Registered: ‎02-16-2008
Location: Australia
0

Re: Only Widescreen T61s Available Now???

Icantux i should really say 'good products cheaper'. The manufacturing costs dedicate the overall pricing. If Lenovo can drive the manufacturing costs down then they can offer a cheaper laptop, it is a simple formula. Right now per unit item the standard aspect ratio LCD is higher than the widescreen ratio LCD to procure. The screen shapes dedicate the final laptop forms, which means 'Nearly' everything have to specially made for the different screen shapes. The volume of production also dedicates the overall production cost, the more you produce of something the cheaper it is.

In addition no large laptop manufacturers actually produce their own laptop anymore, so if you want to produce a laptop that is totally different to other manufacturer's laptop in terms of everything, then most likely that the contract producer such as Wistron or Compal would charge accordingly. Everything is ordered in bulk, so do you think it is going to be cheaper to order 10,000 units of something (i.e. 4:3 screens) or 10 million units of that particular components??? You do have to keep in mind that there is hardly any other laptop companies are offering large 4:3 inch laptop screens anymore.

Lenovo no longer just want to dominate in the corporate markets anymore, it also want the wider consumer markets. IBM probably sold its Think branded range to Lenovo, because it no longer can produce the profit it once could. Thinkpads no longer takes the lion share of corporate market, HP/Compaq, Dell and even Toshiba are taking large chunks as well. One must diversify like Apple does in order to survive, but the success of Apple is due to the fact it offers similar high quality designed products, which drive down its production costs and reaping the benefits.

Actually those whom travel a lot purchase 14.1 inch and 12.1 inch 4:3 laptops, these are the road warrior machines, which i do have one of each. The 15.4 inch widescreen actually have the same height as the 14.1 inch screen, but slightly wider by about 5 cm at most to the 14.1 inch models. It is the height and weight of the laptop that most road warrior hate due to it touching the headrest of the person in front if you are flying economy class. If they hate it that much there is always the X300, X61 and the 14.1 inch widescreen T61 models they can use on their tight budget flights. Or they can just fly first or business class.

Also when you say the widescreen beast??? are you saying that the widescreen machines are much heavier than their non widescreen cousins, which i don't notice at all??? maybe it is time for them to get some weight training happening... I actually travel alot to Singapore, Hong Kong, Shanghai and Beijing....
Punch Card
MattB
Posts: 45
Registered: ‎02-13-2008
Location: Boston, MA
0

Re: Only Widescreen T61s Available Now???

[ Edited ]
It's not notebook enthusiasts who prefer 4:3 screens, it's corporate users. 4:3 is preferable for word processing and other productivity tasks where the extra width of a widescreen display is of no benefit. Noone else makes a 4:3 corporate notebook, and corporate buyers who buy thousands of notebooks would choose the Lenovo T-series over the HP 6-series or Dell Latitude D-series if the 4:3 option were offered. Not having access to notebook PC market data and production cost data, I can't run a cost-benefit calculation, but it is possible that the additional market share gained could potentially exceed the costs of continuing to produce 4:3 notebooks. Even so, that doesn't mean it makes sense if the opportunity cost of doing so is too high.
 
What I don't understand is what makes widescreen displays so much cheaper. If it has to do with the shape of the sheet from which they're cut, why couldn't the shape just be optimized for 4:3 screens? In my opinion it's all about the shift towards consumers. Ten years ago the average consumer couldn't afford to buy a notebook PC, but now prices have come down to the point where they're affordable to more than just corporate power users. Many consumers use their notebooks to watch movies and entertain themselves, not write reports and create presentations. Widescreens are better for watching widescreen movies, and hence more desirable to consumers. And so in order to cut costs as far as possible, widescreens are getting forced on those of us who use their machines for more than just watching movies. If I can't find a 4:3 T61p, I will continue extending the warranty on my Compaq Evo N620c until HP refuses to renew it for another year. And when that day comes, its replacement will be another HP business notebook. I've used Compaq business notebooks for the last decade, but would switch to Lenovo for a 4:3 screen which HP doesn't offer, but if my only option is widescreen I'll buy another HP.


Message Edited by MattB on 05-14-2008 11:16 PM
Bit Torrent
wjli2
Posts: 3,213
Registered: ‎02-16-2008
Location: Australia
0

Re: Only Widescreen T61s Available Now???

Only Lenovo knew how many standard screens it had sold over the widescreen models, kudo to Lenovo for holding out so long with the Standard screens when all the market changed to widescreen models. If Lenovo had derived a great portion of profit from the standard screen sale, it probably wouldn't have dropped the line in the first place. So we can only speculate on the true motive of Lenovo dropping the standard screens models.

Corporate world is run by Accountant whom are notorious in their penny pinching strategies, why do you think so much of the American Jobs are shipped overseas to places like India and China????

From what i can gather is that the 4:3 screen involve a lot of trim offs, the old glass screen they use to produce for the LCD contain lot of arsenic's, which is a pain to dispose off....... i don't know the exact reason why trim offs exists, but they do... I am not a Compaq/HP man after two of their laptops failed just after the one year warranty due to a faulty motherboard, they offered the USA customers free repair or upgrade due to a pending lawsuits, but they forgot about us in Australia... the same motherboard faults still occur in their laptops even last year... but i will definitely stick with HP printers..........


Actually the 15.4 inch widescreen have the same height as a 14.1 inch T40........... i actually like to use widescreen wsxga+ laptops, due to the fact i can place two screens side by side.........
Punch Card
Moskito
Posts: 59
Registered: ‎05-16-2008
Location: Switzerland
0

Re: Only Widescreen T61s Available Now???

[ Edited ]
Since I use my notebook mainly for working purposes I like 4:3 displays better and I'd like to know if these displays really are discontinued.

So far I haven't found any official statement on this and I was hoping that the new series would have one or the other notebook with 4:3 Display. It would be a real loss for the Thinkpads if they're going to discontinue the 4:3 models, since the demand for 4:3 exists, especially because almost all other notebook manufacturers have changed to 16:10 models.

Is there any statement or indicator other than the removal of the 4:3 models from the US website and the one statement from the hotline?

Here in Switzerland 4:3 models are still available, but I was hoping for a 4:3 model in the new serie with a discrete video card that can be turned off.

Message Edited by Moskito on 05-16-2008 08:29 PM
Bit Torrent
wjli2
Posts: 3,213
Registered: ‎02-16-2008
Location: Australia
0

Re: Only Widescreen T61s Available Now???

The Lenovo has stopped producing the T and R series in 4:3 screens..... however, the 15.4 inch laptops have the same screen height as the 14.1 standard aspect screens. But there are plenty of leftover stocks around the world, if you want them you could easily get them from many computer stores........