T61p video chip failure and denied support

[stefan_m]

I have a ThinkPad T61p that last year started to have some video issues with ghosting and distortion on both the internal and external display. I contacted Lenovo support in Feb. 2011 knowing about the Nvidia issues these machines have and cited MIGR-75087 but they insisted it was caused by a bad video driver. They had me reformat and restore my machine and the issue continued. After I argued with tech support over numerous calls they claimed 100% it was my fault and a software/driver issue. I ended up buying a MacBook Pro to replace this unreliable machine but now I've been reading more and more that Lenovo knows about this issue and was replacing the system boards under an extended warranty. Is this still true? I contacted support a couple days ago and they flat out denied any existance of MIGR-75087 and said they were not aware of any industry wide nVidia graphics problems.

[TuuS]

They (meaning the tech you spoke to) might not be aware as this problem was fixed almost 4 years ago, and technically nVidia never admitted to there being any defects with the chips, and they reached settlements with most every pc manufacturer they sold chips to, so the manufactures cannot make any statement that the chips were bad either. I can tell you that Lenovo spent millions of dollars beyond what they got from nVidia in fixing these, but even though I also didn't get mine covered within the 13month timeframe, I still can't fault Lenovo for doing free repairs, just because I didn't gain from it. My personal advice is if you have a failed unit, just look at it in the proper perspective and just repair it... there are enough problems in this world for us to be upset about, 3-4yo electronic devices that die shouldn't be one of them, and from a legal standpoint, if there is no warranty, you have no hope at all of forcing them to do anything, but you're free to try... I just think you'd be wasting your time and getting yourself upset over nothing. If you decide you want to fix yours, then I'd be glad to help. The nVidia "problem" was solved by August 2008, just before production stopped, so there are a very limited number of boards with the updated chip. If you want one, I'll help you get one, but if you want to pursue Lenovo in hopes of changing their mind and doing more free repairs, then all I can say is good luck, but you'r not the first who's tried and it would probably just be a waste of time.

[stefan_m]

To be honest I bought a MacBook Pro to replace this T61p and the Mac is superior the IBM in almost every instance including technical support. I find it hard to accept that a ThinkPad that cost over $3500 didn't even last 3 years. I've lost all faith in IBM/Lenovo products and in my work from now on I will caution people against buying them.

I guess my next question is IBM/Lenovo deny that MIGR-75087 exists. Is this document published somewhere in it's entirety on the web somewhere? One tech support person I talked to was reading it and in a 2nd call the technician vehemently denied the document existed. Is it available to read to the public?

[TuuS]

My understanding is that the document is an internal service policy, and it expired last year so it may no longer officially exist. In regards to blaming Lenovo, I think you should focus most of your anger at nVidia, Lenovo is a victim here too, and although I can understand you being upset, but for some people there is nothing that could make them happy. Lenovo fixed thousand of these for free from 3-1-2010 to 3-31-2011. That's over a year of free repairs... would 2 years have been enough to make you happy, or would it take 3? 5? or perhaps free repairs for life? some people would probably not be happy for less, but they had to draw the line somewhere, no one would continue to fix old computers for free indefinitely. Apple is actually one of the worse offenders in bad warranty on electronics. Do a google search on "Ipods dirty little secret", and watch a video some kid made that forced apple to change their policy about battery warranty and replacements. Mac has always been a stable product, but thinkpads are far superior in that they can be fixed on a budget, where mac's cannot. Replacement parts for mac have always been far overpriced. I always buy thinkpads because they are so easy to fix, and I can fix a T61p anywhere from $50 to $250, depending on what board I put in it. I doubt you'd find any macbook system boards for under $500, or at least not reliably.

[stefan_m]

I just had a 2008 MacBook Pro exhibit the same nVidia problem and Apple replaced the system board at no cost to me in Oct. 2011 (well after 3 years since the machine was built). This problem is 100% the responsibility of Lenovo to deal with as they sold a faulty product and will not stand behind it. I guess the whole attitude regarding this problem/issue will ensure I will never recommend Lenovo to anyone ever again and I will never personally buy another IBM/Lenovo product either.

[TuuS]

Thats your decision, but to be fair, apple only followed lenovo's lead. wait and see if they still fix them for free in 1 year, 2 years, 5 years, or what ever. Apple will stop the free repairs just like Lenovo did.

[stefan_m]

Uhh.. Apple acknowledged a problem and free repairs well before Lenovo did. Apple started doing free repairs in Oct. 2008:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10063844-37.html

Apple covers them for 4 years after the purchase date:

http://support.apple.com/kb/ts2377

From what I'm understanding is Lenovo offered a repair extension last year in a 12 month window and now that time is over they have removed the tech article describing the repair and telling everyone "tough luck". I'm sorry to disagree with you but the Lenovo response is not acceptable in my mind especially on a very expensive and high end T61p laptop. I did call when this unit fell under the warranty extension and they brushed it off as a software/driver problem. Not acceptable.

[TuuS]

If you have a service ticket number from your initial report, you can probably get it reviewed, but you'd have to contact Lenovo about that, this is a user forum. There are some staff members who moderate, but the people you communicate with here are users.

As for Lenovo's responce to this, the 13 month free repair period was in addition to previous policies. From what I understand about applies policy, they started fixing them out of warranty after lenovo did, obvously repairs in october 2008 were under warranty. Lenovo also offered extended warranties that owners could buy to get an additional year of coverage, some people were even buying them after the laptops died and I believe lenovo was honoring them.

As far as pulling the internal document, it had expired, so there was a valid reason to pull it. I also disagree with your math earlier, your not out a $3000+ laptop, your out a laptop that's worth at best $500, which you could easily fix for $150-250. Don't get me wrong, I'm not siding with Lenovo, I really to sympathize with you, trust me, I wasn't very happy when mine died either, but I fixed it and moved on, and it's been working perfect ever since. I've also helped a couple dozen other members fix theirs, all of whom are very happy. 

[andyP Community SuperMod]

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TuuS wrote:

If you have a service ticket number from your initial report, you can probably get it reviewed,

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I think that is good advice and certainly worth looking into.

Discussing which manufacturer was first, second or third is superfluos to the situation at hand as presented in the opening post. Such discussion is not serving to push the discussion forwards.

Thanks folks

[yoeman]

Hi,

My T61 just failed with the GPU issue.  I am in the UK, and spares for Lenovo here seem to come from IBM.  I'm out of warranty etc. so accept I need to pay for a board, BUT - how to get a fixed board?  I ordered off IBM parts - the first board supplied had the newer G86-741-A2 GPU but a huge chunk out of the memory control unit, so I returned it for another.  The replacement has the original G86-740-A2 GPU with a 2007 manufacturing date - so IBM are shipping boards with the known problem on them (are they just selling on the boards that were replaced under warranty?).  These boards cost the thick end of 600usd now so I'm reluctant to pay for something with a known fault on it.  How does one secure a board with the fixed GPU on it?  Is there an alternative way to have the existing board fixed (properly)?