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pghFL
Posts: 1,773
Registered: ‎08-17-2011
Location: USA
0

Re: GPS - TPT Acquiring Satellites Bug

I see this has moved to the back again. Has Lenovo done anything yet? It's been 8 months. If the tablet worked as it should imight have gotten another one, but after all the issues why would I?
===================
Don't get mad, get root.
3679CTO
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someotherguy
Posts: 2,314
Registered: ‎10-29-2009
Location: NC

Re: GPS - TPT Acquiring Satellites Bug

pghFL,

 

I don't have anything new from my previous update.

 

For the Wifi tablet (without WWAN card), if your GPS doesn't work, you need to call support to request warranty service.  I asked the hardware team to give me details about known issues, affected systems, etc and I could not get this info.  So if your GPS doesn't work, then please call support about it.  I'm sorry but I can't help you from the forum.

 

For the 3G tablet (with WWAN card), we found a software bug that causes the GPS to stop working over time.  The fix will be in the next OTA update.  This is the ICS update that is scheduled for April/May timeframe.

802.11n
is1981
Posts: 325
Registered: ‎03-29-2008
Location: New York, NY
0

Re: GPS - TPT Acquiring Satellites Bug

Hi someotherguy,

I can confirm the latter on a 3G one (1838-2DG, with an Ericsson F5521gw inside); it certainly looks like a software bug as it is usually able to get a few fixes (one or two) after booting. Thanks a lot for the update, and for the good news about the software bug being fixed in the next release. I am sorry for pghFL, but if he is unable to get fixes then there must be a hardware problem on his slate. I understand that sending the tablet to service is a pain.
SCSI Port
wosto
Posts: 64
Registered: ‎09-19-2011
Location: Raleigh, NC - United States
0

Re: GPS - TPT Acquiring Satellites Bug


sobrado wrote:
Hi someotherguy,

I can confirm the latter on a 3G one (1838-2DG, with an Ericsson F5521gw inside); it certainly looks like a software bug as it is usually able to get a few fixes (one or two) after booting. Thanks a lot for the update, and for the good news about the software bug being fixed in the next release. I am sorry for pghFL, but if he is unable to get fixes then there must be a hardware problem on his slate. I understand that sending the tablet to service is a pain.

This isn't an isolated issue with a few tablets.... Lenovo hasn't admitted it, but there is enough evidence from many, many Users on this forum (as well as other tablet forums) to support the fact that the TPT does not support AGPS over WIFI (and apparently was broken for 3G/4G/GSM as well).

 

Lenovo knew about this within days of launching the TPT. As I've noted in this thread numerous times, other Android tablet manufactureurs (such as Acer, which I owned before the TPT) also had this issue on launch but had it fixed via OTA within weeks. (somewhere in this post is video I took of the Acer A500 and TPT side-by-side, aquiring and locking on satellites... well, at least one of them was able to aquire and lock :smileywink: )

 

Unfortunately the problem seems to be Lenovo Development/Engineering, for example, the run-around that "someotherguy" got when requesting information... 

 

I took someotherguy's comment about calling Support to mean that it would take a flood of calls to Support for warrenty service before Lenovo Development/Engineering would do anything.

 

Anyway, just wanted to say that IMHO this isn't a hardware warrenty issue isolated to pghFL and a few others. I gave up on this fight and purchased a bluetooth GPS reciever to use with my TPT (killed me to do so after spending $700+ on the TPT and accessories) but now I have satelittes locked in under a minute.

 

- wosto

802.11n
ameridian
Posts: 431
Registered: ‎01-30-2012
Location: USA
0

Re: GPS - TPT Acquiring Satellites Bug

the fact that the TPT does not support AGPS over WIFI

 

Mine does for what it's worth. Right now I'm indoors and have 5 out of 6 satellites locked and accuracy is 15 feet. I've also used offline GPS software for turn-by-turn navigation around town and that seems to work too.

802.11n
is1981
Posts: 325
Registered: ‎03-29-2008
Location: New York, NY
0

Re: GPS - TPT Acquiring Satellites Bug

Mine too. Just to show some real world data I ran an outdoor test using GPS Status & Toolbox just a few minutes ago. In less than two minutes I got eight satellites and seven fixes, one minute later there were nine sats and eight fixes and the error in the GPS was less than one meter. I ran the tests on a 1838-2DG slate (a 3G one, with an Ericsson F5521gw inside, no SIM installed). Inside building, even near windows, this slate cannot get fixes usually.

 

I think Lenovo is right when they say there is a software bug, this one will be fixed on next OTA upgrade, as a software bug is likely a good explanation for the problems seen by most people on this forum. Obviously, some tablets may be faulty and need service but, in most cases, they are working.

SCSI Port
wosto
Posts: 64
Registered: ‎09-19-2011
Location: Raleigh, NC - United States

Re: GPS - TPT Acquiring Satellites Bug


ameridian wrote:

the fact that the TPT does not support AGPS over WIFI

 

Mine does for what it's worth. Right now I'm indoors and have 5 out of 6 satellites locked and accuracy is 15 feet. I've also used offline GPS software for turn-by-turn navigation around town and that seems to work too.


ameridian & sobrado,

 

I'm envious that you have working TPT GPS's!

 

Myself and others have spent many hours trying to troubleshoot this issue (so that we could aid Lenovo in getting this resolved quickly) and for the most part we all had similar results... which were disappointing.

 

As we all know by now, AGPS assists mobile devices by using the network (3G/4G or Wifi) to download exact satellite positions using your generalized location and a NTP_Server (defined in GPS.conf). AGPS/GPS also stores this data, so once you have had a fix in a "cold" location you should always have a fast Time To First Fix (TTFF) there.

 

 Here's how we were testingmaybe if you guys get a chance you could let us know your results?

 

Test 1 (No Network  w/No AGPS):

  1. Disable your TPT GPS.
  2. Disable any network connection (3G/4G or Wifi) on the TPT.
  3. Using a 3rd party app (I used GPS Test) clear your stored AGPS data to ensure you will be trying to get a fix from a "cold" location.
  4. Head outside, turn on your TPT GPS and see how long it takes to get a fix and lock with no network and no stored AGPS data (I also used GPS Test for this just because it was easy to monitor).  Note: For most of us it took upwards of 15 minutes for a lock if we ever got one at all.

Test 2 (Wifi w/No AGPS):

  1. Disable your TPT GPS
  2. Clear your stored AGPS data to ensure you will be trying to get a fix from a "cold" location.
  3. Turn on and connect to Wifi (not 3G/4G).
  4. Head outside (while maintain your Wifi connection), turn on your TPT GPS and see how long it takes to get a fix and lock. Note: Ideally the TPT would use the Wifi connection to download AGPS data for a quick TTFF, we didn't see this happen.

Test 3 (3G/4G w/No AGPS)

Note: We didn't run this test because we don't have 3G/4G/GSM

  1. Disable your TPT GPS
  2. Clear your stored AGPS data to ensure you will be trying to get a fix from a "cold" location.
  3. Turn on and connect to 3G/4G or GSM (not Wifi).
  4. Head outside, turn on your TPT GPS and see how long it takes to get a fix and lock.

Test 4 (Wifi w/ AGPS):

  1. Turn on and connect to Wifi (not 3G/4G), if possible be at the outdoor location where you be attempting a fix.
  2. Using a 3rd party app (I used GPS Test) manually download AGPS data
  3. If not already, turn on your TPT GPS and see how long it takes to get a fix and lock. Note: For most of us this this dramatically reduced the TTFF time to 5 minutes or less.

Thanks!

wosto

HDMI
barbfxshow
Posts: 131
Registered: ‎12-12-2011
Location: Japan
0

Re: GPS - TPT Acquiring Satellites Bug

[ Edited ]

Following up on my attempts to speak to engineering and design in the Yamato office, the one that seems to have designed the TPT, here is a timeline:

 

3/30 from me to personnel manager:

>  > The main problem I wanted to ask you about was the GPS. Mine doesn't
>  > work. Almost no one's works (those with WiFi-only tablets), and
>  > everyone has been waiting for a software fix. So, I wanted to have the
>  > engineers there see that my GPS didn't work and ask if they knew what
>  > the problem was.
>  >
>  > The other problem was about the hardware, specifically the micro-USB
>  > port and the power button. Both of these have been breaking on many
>  > people's tablets, so I wanted the engineers to open my tablet and let
>  > me see the inside. Some people have reported that their power button
>  > wasn't even soldered to the board. It was just hanging free. I wanted
>  > to know my status before the power button and the micro-USB broke.
>  >
>  > And now it has! My power button stopped working today. I cannot turn
>  > my tablet on or off.


4/1 followup from me:

> I've found one link that gives the best information on the problems with
> the GPS.
>
>
http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-slate-tablets/GPS-TPT-Acquiring-Satellites-Bug/m-p/555031
>
> This is a discussion on the ThinkPad forums. Basically the users think
> they're [sic] is a hardware problem and a software problem. This has been much
> discussed, but Lenovo has not said officially what the problem is. It
> seems there is a disconnect inside Lenovo between the engineering and
> design sections and the support personnel. Many, many people are waiting
> for answers . . .

 

4/3 Reply from Lenovo engineer:

>I'm a  member of product engineering in Lenovo.
>
>Thank you for your e-mail.
>For your problem, we have service support organization who can support
>every problem customer has.
>Our office in Yokohama is not that organization, so difficult to solve
>your problem.
>
>Please contact our support center in the link shown below. for your
>power
>button and GPS problem.(Sorry, as it is Japan site,  written in
>Japanese)
>
>
http://www-06.ibm.com/jp/domino04/pc/support/Sylphd01.nsf/jtechinfo/SITE-REPAIR

 

My 4/3 reply to engineering:

>Thank you, Mr. (redacted). I seem to have little choice now that my power button is broken. I will contact the >support division as you advise.
>
>However, the original reason I wanted to speak to you about the general GPS problem with non-WWAN ThinkPad >Tablets. Do you know if there was a hardware problem with early production runs? And was this hardware problem >fixed in later models?
>
>Thank you for helping me to understand the problem.

 

4/3 reply from engineering:

>Thank you very much for your quick reply.
>
>Regarding GPS issue, that should also need to be reported through service team, to  be >handled/tracked properly.  They will look into the system,  recreate symptom and confirm if that is >known issue or not.
>in case if they need technical escalation, they will surely do that in the pass they always have.
>So, please report to service team about it too,  if you need our support.

 

So, engineering will not admit that there is a problem. They will not even acknowlege the issue. I may still ask again. But how can I be any more direct or simple? They seemed to have already chosen their stance. Sgt. Schultz would wink in approval ;-)

 

How can this not work out badly for Lenovo? Is everyone who reads this board just supposed to send their tablets in for a malfunctioning GPS? And those who don't read these forums but somehow expect a software fix? Wait till summer before launching a class-action lawsuit against Lenovo for breach of contract? Why not take charge and admit the problem and begin working to fix it now while simultaneously avoiding legal fees and getting a chance to bolster the ThinkPad reputation? Lenovo appears to be content with hoping for the best instead of someone managing the two separate divisions.

 

Lenovo paid a fortune for a beautiful princess, and now they're letting her sleep outside in the rain.

 

(My note about the return process is message 231 in this thread: http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-slate-tablets/Power-button-problems/m-p/721715#M13139 )

¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet 1838CTO (not rooted, from Lenovo Direct Japan); WiFi-only model (w/ Galaxy Note LTE as tether); 64GB system memory with Transcend 64GB Class 10 SDXC card; ThinkPadTablet_A310_02_0039_0090_JP rom; GPS works (slowly) after 2012/04 return (power button had broke); Camera will not focus. (note: I have not re-tested these since the ICS update 2012/06/21) ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸

WWAN
pghFL
Posts: 1,773
Registered: ‎08-17-2011
Location: USA
0

Re: GPS - TPT Acquiring Satellites Bug

Sorry to hear your button is toast. Kudos to you, barbfxshow, and wosto, for keeping this thread alive.

I finally realized that this tablet is nothing more than a very expensive experiment for Lenovo and that they really care nothing about whether it lives or dies. Unfortunately, they are taking their reputation down with it. Pity. IBM was a force to be reckoned with, and their hardware was a thing of beauty - not the botched mess I purchased from Lenovo.

I, like many, many others have a non-functional GPS, an iffy micro USB, and I am waiting for the day the power button dies, as yours has. Seems I should be waiting for something happier, no?

I am hoping to send my TPT in and get everything repaired at once. By that time I won't be concerned to be without it. I'll have a shiny, brand new "other" tablet that actually works.

Hang your head in shame, Lenovo!
===================
Don't get mad, get root.
3679CTO
Mark_Lenovo
Posts: 7,653
Topics: 408
Kudos: 1,276
Solutions: 275
Registered: ‎11-19-2007
Location: RTP, North Carolina

Re: GPS - TPT Acquiring Satellites Bug

pghFL,

 

We care about this issue, but you don't seem to be making use of your warranty support.    Someotherguy has repeatedly asked that you contact service.   Have you?

 

If you don't want to go to normal service, could we arrange to bring your system in to our US office and do the repairs?

 

Would you now be willing to send it in?   

 

With regard to the GPS...let's consider that there could be :

 

1) some software issues?   I'll defer to all of someotherguy and bnsf's posts on this subject...

 

2) some hardware issues?  Perhaps, but are the hardware issues all the same?  Perhaps there is a common problem that affects multiple, but not all customers?   Perhaps there are also random things that could go wrong in any field population.   Without looking at your system and others, how are we to say whether you have some random unfortunate issue - a pinched / shorted GPS antenae, a bad connection, a flaky GPS module etc, vs something that might have occured on others.

 

We have definitive fixes available for the USB and power button.   Rather than just posting time and again about your dissatisfaction with these items, why not allow us to repair them?   And while we are at it, have a look at your GPS?

 

Would you allow us to repair your system and address your concerns?

 

Mark

 

 

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