02-21-2012 11:53 AM
By the way, I think that technically the bootloader is unlocked, what you really want is for them to provide root access. Once the TpT was rooted replacing recovery was fairly straightforward because the bootloader wasn't locked. There are devices, like the Droid Razr for example, that have a locked bootloader so that even after being rooted a custom recovery cannot be installed (although a bootstrap recovery has been created for those devices which can flash some files, although the kernel can't be replaced in bootstrap).
Lenovo could provide some kind of online root tool where you have to enter your serial number and it roots your TpT. Serials for corporate accounts could be tracked and blocked and those who chose to root would probably have to accept that their warranty would be voided. It would be more work for them but it could create a good balance between satisfying consumers that want full access to their devices while still protecting corporate devices from being changed by the end user. Plus then we wouldn't be searching for and posting exploits, which is good for Lenovo's claim of a secure device, and they would know which devices are rooted so that they could reject warranty claims of people who bricked their tablet after obtaining root.
02-21-2012 01:10 PM
losing warranty on a device after legitimally getting root access to it is a nonsense to me, and possibly illegal on any civilized country too. In case Lenovo decides giving root access to ThinkPad tablet owners the company must preserve users warranty untouched. A very different matter is when a group of users choose using a cracking tool to open a privileged access to their devices against manufacturer rules.
If Lenovo decides giving root access to their tablets, and it is a logical choice in my humble opinion, they should provide the tools required to allow users recovery a working device in case of unintentional damage to the operating system. Lenovo should provide, at same time as root access, a full image of the operating system to recover tablets in case of damage.
In fact, I had been asking for a complete image of the operating system for weeks even if root access is not an option, as I see there are users that have challenges upgrading the operating system on their tablets. Agreed, some of these users have rooted their devices removing required packages later, turning the task of upgrading their devices into an impossible one; others, however, have problems with shared libraries that look corrupted and have probably been broken on their devices since day one.
02-21-2012 02:45 PM
02-22-2012 02:09 AM
I certainly understand what you mean. This is the reason I suggested on my previous post that the next logical step for Lenovo would be opening root access to their devices, as we are the owners of these devices and seems logical to me being able to customize them. I certainly would never buy a locked computer: Windows is useless for me, and I prefer a BSD operating system instead of Linux on a computer. For a tablet, I am ok with a recent (and supported in the sense of being fixed when bugs are discovered!) Android. However, the manufacturer has the right to decide what they will provide with the hardware and we have the right to buy (or reject) devices offered by that manufacturer.
The sad part is that it seems that they are not looking the tablets because they are business targeted systems (is there something more business targeted than a ThinkPad laptop?) but because this way they protect a parallel business area, the development of customized roms for customers. This is, in my humble opinion, the main reason we will probably never see an officially rooted tablet. But it is Lenovo's business model and we should understand and accept it this way. We are free about buying or not their devices. My choice will be buying one in the next weeks as I accept (even if do not like a lot) their rules.
There are a lot of devices we currently own that do not allow privileged access: music players, DVDs, routers, managed switches, access points... but these devices are usually less flexible than tablets, so I understand people that wants root access to this device. I would be happy having root access to it too, of course with the required tools to recover the system in case of software damage.
02-22-2012 05:43 AM
There was a large (320M) image ThinkTablet_A310_03_21_43_US.zip in history subdirectory of http://download.lenovo.com/slates/think/tablet1/ with boot.img in it, so probably this was a full image. Lenovo has deleted this from the server, but I'm sure it can be found elsewhere.
02-22-2012 06:40 AM
ASUS today released the bootloader unlock for the Transformer Prime:
02-22-2012 10:44 AM - edited 02-22-2012 10:45 AM
ASUS today released the bootloader unlock for the Transformer Prime:
After unlocking the Transformer Prime:
They must be joking. This is a nice way to say "ah fine, we have sell the tablet to a lot of customers, let us see if we can stop servicing these tablets when breaking." I am surprised to see that customers are happy with these licensing terms.
02-22-2012 12:44 PM
But this is what i do not get. The general consumer population will not care to unlock and root their device. They just want a device that works from the get go. The ones that want to root and unlock their device are those that either...
1-Are in the development community
2-Are knowledgable with their devices and thus want the full potential and don't mind tinkering with it to make it perfect
3- There may be a thrid but i can't think of it now lol
Those within the groups are small compared to the general population. Those folks know that most manufacturers will not service a unlocked rooted device be it via 3rd party tools or by tools given by the manufacturer themselves. Only one manufacturer (notion Ink) does service rooted unlocked device but that is a special case altogether. The folks wanting to take control of their devices know the rules and if Asus, HTC (The current ones with unlocked tools) feel to set certain rules in exchange for providing the unlocked bootloader, then that is fine. Developers are good at what they do and can and will find ways to provide those that have unlocked and rooted their devices the new updates. most of these folks rooting and unlocking their device do take their time to read and understand the steps needed to take full control of their devices, Those that don't or fail to fully understand the process have a boat load of friends, members, developers that will lend them a hand to work the issue out. It is quite few that decide to return a device back to the manufacturer for servicing once they rooted/unlocked. So Asus can state their demands but the development community will continue to do what is right for the customer. And lenovo could do the same.
I've said it before and will continue to say it, no matter how big a manufacturer is and how big their development / UI / Design / hardware department is, it is small and cannot be compared to the thousands of online community devleopers out there willing and able to tackle any issue a device may have. And free i might add. that alone is something that they they manufacturers should look into.
Not only are these folks devs, but they are also customers that are willing to interact with with manufacturers into helping them debug and fix issues that occur in the real world instead of behind closed door testing environments.
now if lenovo, motorola, and any other "stick to their guns" manufacturer do not see this potential then they will be left behind others that do take advantage of it.
02-22-2012 12:51 PM - edited 02-22-2012 12:51 PM
Wow! So well said! Could not have said it better myself.
In the case of Lenovo it's really no loss on any of the points sobrado posted. The devs already are very close to having ICS ready, well in advance of Lenovo, and I've yet to see one update that fixed anything important after OTA1.