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xhu12
Posts: 245
Registered: ‎06-29-2011
Location: USA
0

Re: W520 shuts off intermittently, no BSOD or shut down

[ Edited ]

I am not 100% sure about the whether it is a hardware problem. I had a phone conversation with an engineer from the local lenovo premium busibess partner here in town today and he thinks it has a fairly good chance it is caused by some software conflict, because I never have had any trouble when the computer is under high stress, i.e benchmark tool, modern video game or other heavy app., so far I only observed it when the computer is in idle or under low load, i.e. checking email with browser. The enginer said that they repair and diagnose 100s of computers from different brands/models every day, problem about 90% of the random shudown cases like mine turned out to be a software problem. However, he did noy exclude the possibility of problems on the MoBo or other component too. But he did said, this problem might be very difficult to diagnose and solve, so I might be looking into a little longer time struggling with the issue. Also to the bad contact problem, I think i might be unlikely since it occured a few times also when I did not phiscally moved the computer, i.e. I found the computer turned off when I return from a bathroom break.

 

But my biggest problem is that my random shutdown occurs very very intermittently, you need to wait for at least days to see it happen and it did not always leave any trace in the event log. I don't have time to waiting for days and week just to trouble shoot my PC, I bought the computer for my actual work but not to work on it like I just started a garden or something. But I am really pissed about the situation because of this problems may not be solved for a while, but I need a reliable computer for work, and lenovo will not replace the machine unless it is repaired more than 3-4 times and still has problem, in this case, they MAY replace it. I just got this machine as brand new for about 6 weeks now and I have this random shutdowns since the week 2. I do still have nearly 3 years warranty but it is already absolutely insane to use the warranty on a few weeks old laptop, and it is even more insane if I had to send the computer back and forth for repair for the rest of the warranty time. Especially it is nearly 2000$ business laptop from the best thinkpad series.

 

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ToddPMan
Posts: 57
Registered: ‎07-27-2011
Location: Lynnwood, WA
0

Re: W520 shuts off intermittently, no BSOD or shut down

@xhu12: Yikes, I was afraid to hear something like that... So did he give you a strategy for pinpointing the app that is causing the problem? Is there some logging application or something else that might help us identify the culprit? The Windows Event Log does not seem to provide any details as to what software might have caused the problem.

I think I mentioned many posts back that every time my computer crashed, I was running my day trading software. That said, I could run it for hours on end (12+) without issue, so it seems strange that it would all of the sudden cause a conflict after running for such a long time... but I suppose it is possible. I'm going to leave the trading software up and running as long as I can over the next day or two or three and see if I can get this new machine to crash. I may wait to replace the HDs until after doing a little more testing to eliminate variables. I will replace them at some point, just because of the other user experience with the Seagate drives.

The only other thing I think I've done differently with this new machine, is NOT to use the Lenovo Power Manager. I've only selecting Power Options from within the Windows 7 Power Options. Also, this new machine does not have the built in color calibrator, but otherwise they are identical.

I 100% agree that I"m sick of spending time of this... I was looking for a rock solid laptop for critical day trading, but right now, I can't trust the machine. Of course, I'll always have a catastrophic plan in place should the computer crash, but I wouldn't expect to have to execute on that plan but on the rarest of occasions.
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xhu12
Posts: 245
Registered: ‎06-29-2011
Location: USA
0

Re: W520 shuts off intermittently, no BSOD or shut down

[ Edited ]

Hi ToddPMan

 

Thanks for your message post. So the technician said he will take out my HD, put a HD from them with a special version of Windows 7 in my laptop and run some diagnosis on the machine, so here he can exclude software conflict on my own HD, and my HD will put into another computer and test for itself, whether it will cause any trouble on the test computer. But if they can't find anything, then he probably will try to replace the system board, and see whether it would help, so he said this type of intermittent problem is often hard to trace and if they can't find anything odd during a couple of days test, all they could do is guess, so there won't be 100% security that the repair would help in this case , but I can't really blame the engineer, what else cound he do?

 

So if that is the case, I only option will be to try to send to repair as often as I can until either it gets fixed or I get a replacement. The tech support rep explained to me that there are 3 levels of tech supports, level 1, the reps you talke to on the phone in support center in Atlanta, GA. if they can't help you with instructions, they will send your Computer to the sec. level repair, thats either their local business partner or the depot repair center in Memphis, TN, if these still don't help, they will repair it in the level 3, some lenovo research center, i.e. there is one in North Carolina, forgot which town. And if this still can solve the problem, there are 2 possibilities for you: 1. they will replace the machine for you if it's less older than 6 months and 2, you are screwed eventually :smileyhappy:

 

Also to the software conflict issue; I am not quite sure that it is a 100% software issue, but no matter, what it is absolutely not user's responsibilities to make sure a business laptop will ran business softare without problem, especially, a frequently used software can run without problem on 1000s of other models of computers but not on a thinkad W520, or Lenovo needs to label which software will cause which trouble so the buyers can avoid it before purchase, if they don't, it's their responsibility to make it work, i.e. update the drivers it has conflicht with or simply trouble shoot and provide workaround, people don't purchase a 2000$ laptop to run windows 7 in the lenovo factory setting.

 

The rep als told me that since lenovo took over, they tightened up the product retrun/replacement plolicies somewhat, so it seems that they don't replace faulty units that easily as the IBM used to do, which is probably correlated with the expected quality if I may guess, because all the return/replacement policies as well as the charges for the warrenties are chosen so that they won't loose money in overall.

 

Here I don't think I want to complain that lenovo products have worse quality than other major computer manufactures such as Dell or HP, but I wonder whether there is something true about the rumors that the thinkpad quality decreased compared to the older IBM thinkpads since Lenovo took over. But I don't really want to speculate here too much, the last thinkpad I had is from my dad, an old IBM R61, which still works fine today (but very slow of course) with all original parts incl. battery.

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JazJon
Posts: 58
Registered: ‎08-07-2011
Location: San Francisco
0

Re: W520 shuts off intermittently, no BSOD or shut down

I put a ticket in online Sunday, I didnt get a response yet.  Is there a phone number I can call? (couldnt find one)

 

My shutdown/rebooted yet again tonight.   I had a friend come over and I went to show him my new laptop.  All I did was pick it up with one hand, and midway from the point of picking it up bringing it to my lap, BAM (off)  sucks

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xhu12
Posts: 245
Registered: ‎06-29-2011
Location: USA
0

Re: W520 shuts off intermittently, no BSOD or shut down

I usually call the support center in Atlanta GA, you can talked to real humans, some of them are very nice and helpful and some of them are real jerks (One time the rep basically said to me you have the right to complain, and if you need repair, go find yourself a lenovo business partner near you online, that's it, very unfriendly), and I sometimes can not really understand their English due to cetain accents, but if you say goodbye and call the number again you will talk to another person. :smileyhappy:

 

The number:

 

8004267378

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ThorsHammer
Posts: 2,400
Registered: ‎04-08-2011
Location: USA
0

Re: W520 shuts off intermittently, no BSOD or shut down

My W520 decided to spontaneously reboot last night for no apparent reason. It's been working fine for several weeks since I turned off GPU accelleration in the browsers.

 

I looked carefully in the event logs but I don't see anything.

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harrisb
Posts: 1,028
Registered: ‎04-20-2008
Location: Cary, NC
0

Re: W520 shuts off intermittently, no BSOD or shut down

[ Edited ]

Could be Gamma rays opportunely hitting a memory cell. There's been an increased frequency of solar flares in the past week.PC memory is non-parity so it's possible to have non-correctable errors which result in a spontaneous system shutdown.

 

http://www.space.com/12580-sun-unleashes-major-solar-flare.html

W520, i7-2820QM, BIOS 1.42, 1920x1080 FHD, 32 GB RAM, 2000M NVIDIA GPU, Samsung 840 Pro 480GB SSD, Hitachi 1TB 7200rpm HDD, WD 2TB USB 3.0, eSata Plextor PX-LB950UE BluRay

W520, i7-2760QM, BIOS 1.42 1920x1080 FHD, 32 GB RAM, 1000M NVIDIA GPU, Crucial M500 480GB mSata SSD, Hitachi 500GB HDD, WD 2TB USB 3.0
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ThorsHammer
Posts: 2,400
Registered: ‎04-08-2011
Location: USA
0

Re: W520 shuts off intermittently, no BSOD or shut down

Or it could be a product defect.  This thread has a longer lifetime than those gamma rays.

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xhu12
Posts: 245
Registered: ‎06-29-2011
Location: USA
0

Re: W520 shuts off intermittently, no BSOD or shut down

[ Edited ]

LOL Gamma ray, it is of course possible, but I wonder what is the probability of that I would rather worry about my sperm cells than the memory of my laptop :smileyvery-happy:

 

Just brought my w520 to the local lenovo premium partner for diagnosis and repair, so I will see how it will work out...

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JazJon
Posts: 58
Registered: ‎08-07-2011
Location: San Francisco
0

Re: W520 shuts off intermittently, no BSOD or shut down

[ Edited ]

Hey guys, I just went through the trouble of setting up my camera with tripod to document the behavior. 

 

Youtube video:

http://youtu.be/JdSxxTov1P0

or

http://bit.ly/w520reboots

 

 It's totally unexcepable that I bought what I thought was a stable work-horse to finally have one single rock solid main computer only to find I can't even pick it up or put it down without it shutting off/rebooting!  This is soundling like a pretty big quality control problem if their is a growing thread here about it.   I've reimaged my machine to vanilla and it didnt help by the way.  It's obviously some hardware problem.

 

I still have yet to hear back from the IBM ticket I placed this past Sunday.  I tried to call today but they are closed since I'm on the west coast. (3 hour dif)

 



IBM problem numberCNTFH8S



Status updatesStatus Date/time received Time zone Description

AM08/07/2011 22:30PNext AM. This status indicates that service will be provided the next morning, Monday through Friday.  
RC08/07/2011 22:30PReceived Request. Indicates that the request was entered into the Service Request Manager system.  
AM08/08/2011 05:30GMTNext AM. This status indicates that service will be provided the next morning, Monday through Friday. 

1) LAPTOP REBOOTS WHEN MOVED. HTTP://BIT.LY/W520SHUTS 2) SPEAKERS UNBALANCED HTTP://BIT.LY/W520BAL