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Commander
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Re: W520 - various SSD issues

[ Edited ]

Hi, I recently bought W520 and Intel 510 240 GB and I can confirm problems you are talking about.

 

On warm restart, my system doesn´t start at all, it just shows THINK screen and than a list of boot devices (excluding the 510). Also, I have a huge delay from the time when I push the power button to that THINK screen, it tooks about 10-15 seconds of nothing that black screen.

 

Before I could even set ATA password, I had to service my machine because of artifacts on the screen when external display is attached. This W520+510 setup is not cheap and I am sad that we have to deal with this kind of issues.

Lenovo W520 | 15.6" HD+ | Intel i7 2720QM | 16 GB DDR3 | nVidia Quadro 1000M | Intel 510 SSD | Hitachi 7200rpm HDD | Lenovo Mini Dock 3 Plus

gan
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Re: W520 - various SSD issues

 


Commander wrote:

 

This W520+510 setup is not cheap and I am sad that we have to deal with this kind of issues.


 

I agree, but this isn't necessarily a Thinkpad problem. It could just as well be the SSD's. Seems like a lot of people had some issues with the SATA III SSD's. Hopefully it will be solved pretty soon whether it's the Thinkpad or the SSD's that have some issues.

 

-gan

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ibmford
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Re: W520 - various SSD issues

The reason THINKPADs get stuck during warm reboot at THINK screen is a secret message to LENOVO engineers;

THINK... THINK HARD... THINK SMARTER... DESIGN A BETTER LAPTOP, THIIIiiiiNK!!!

 

Or maybe it's a message to the rest of us "You should have thought extra hard before buying this fantastic piece of equipment that's half baked". It was a 3 pointer shot from down town, but bounced of the rim, too close, could have been...

 

Really, if the problem is with Intel 510 SSD then why doesn't it have the same errors on destop review systems? It's always easy to pass the blame on the third guy who is not part of the discussion to defend itself.

 

As for audio, and poor quality speakers, there's ABSOLUTELY no excuse for a "Desktop Replacement" "Workstation Class" laptop of this size and magnitude to sound soooo flat and lifeless. if macbook pro can get much better sound in a form factor that is about half cubic volume of W520 then there's absolutely no excuse. By the way; I did look at actual speakers on both W520 and a 3 year old MBP before I purchased W520, they're about same size but you can only tell so much from a silent picture. 9so much for the saying a picture is worth a thousand words, but it's not worth a single BEEP"

 

The microphones should have been located at the top side of the screen farther away from the speakers to minimize fan noise, speaker feedback(echo) and keyboard noise. Again, THINK man THINK!!!

 

The touchpad is practically useless, to make room for trackpoint buttons they located trackpad so far below the keyboard, you have to twist your hand like a pretzel going back and forth between keyboard and trackpad. There are 4 buttons in total for trackpad and point, but they are redundant doing LEFT and RIGHT click (and no the trackpoint buttons can not be programmed)

 

The trackpoint has a mind of its own; every other minute it starts drifting away on screen, or you have to push extra hard in one direction because the trackpoint cursor wants to go in the other direction. It's like that disobedient dog that keeps thowing you when you take him out for a walk.

 

Shall I go on to the LCD screen issue? 16:9 aspect ratio is a bad decision on a professional laptop, the resolution should have been 1920x1200 at 16", You have to keep scrolling up and then down on the web pages, excel spreadsheets, etc... i wish I could have paid $300-400 extra to get all those features that i wish I had on this laptop.

 

On the plus side this laptop (in part to Intel's credit) is absolutely cool running. I mean, it's almost stone cold. The screen colors and brightness is fantsastic. I love the docking station, but what happened to QUAD display, last minute shifting.

 

Every 15-20 mintes I accidentally poke the CD drive button, and it pops open, but that's an easy fix, soon I'm going to yank it out and maybe cram a Bose speaker in its place. I had the laptop for several weeks and used the CD drive for 15 minutes total, it's just not useful, specially if you're gonna have a CD drive these days it should do BLURAY as well. 

 

THINKPAD Engineers, I beg you; please consider these for the next W series (the one with intel 3D trigate CPU). Thanks.

 

 

Thinkpad W520, 2720QM, Crucial SSD M4
gan
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Re: W520 - various SSD issues

 


ibmford wrote:

 

Really, if the problem is with Intel 510 SSD then why doesn't it have the same errors on destop review systems? It's always easy to pass the blame on the third guy who is not part of the discussion to defend itself.

 

 


 

I don't think anyone is blaming Lenovo, Intel, OCZ or anyone else. At least that's not what i said, but we should keep in mind that we don't know what the problem is just yet so let's not jump to a conclusion. I'm rather saying let's not blame "anyone" before we know what/where the problem is. You can ask the other way around as well. If the problem is with the Thinkpad then why doesn't this problem occur when i use the original HDD that was shipped with my W520 or why doesn't this problem occur when i use the 3part Intel X25 SSD. I don't think this is about putting the blame, but rather to find and solve the problem. Starting to blame anyone won't be useful for anyone at this point.

 

I'm not taking any side here and don't blame anyone, but let's provide Lenovo with the info they need and try to help out to solve this problem. I think this thread is useful as long as it stay on topic (W520 various SSD issues) and not turn into "all kind of W520 issues" or a rant at Lenovo.

 

-gan

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ibmford
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Re: W520 - various SSD issues

Ok, today I received my Crucial M4 SSD (micron C400) with Marvell controller. (The same controller intel uses on 510 SSD)

Here's the quick results, can post more details later.

1) Mechanical installation of the drive in the system was flawless.

2) Ended up Using boot cd of Acronis cloned the hard drive perfectly (cost me $49bucks) instant download. It took about an hour. However, I have 0GB on Lenovo recovery partition and constantly getting the nag about no free disk space. 

3) Experience index for disk jumped from 5.9 to 7.9.

4) Below are the bench marks from AS DISK for what ever they are worth:

5) I also have a screen capture file showing Crystal Disk, AS DISK, HD Tune, and experience index results side by side. I'm not sure where I can upload in this forum.

Should I try enabling disk password or something in BIOS to see if I'll brick the disk? ;-) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thinkpad W520, 2720QM, Crucial SSD M4
gan
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Re: W520 - various SSD issues

[ Edited ]

@ibmford

 

Sounds good. 7.9 is the same score i got using OCZ Vertex 3, but using the Intel 510 i get 7.8. I don't see the benchmark you are referring to. Just curious, do you use UEFI and GPT? If yes i assume you also bought the pluspack for Acronis as well and do the backup and recovery work fine with UEFI/GPT?

 

It would be interesting to see if the HDD password will work or brick the SSD, but if i where you i don't think i would have taken the chance :smileyhappy: When i get a new Vertex 3 i don't think i will enable the HDD password until i see some kind of fix that specifically mention this problem. I wonder if Lenovo found some problems and are working on a BIOS update to solve this.

 

-gan

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ibmford
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Re: W520 - various SSD issues

Well, at this moment i'm bit bummed with IASTOR messages in event viewer. After disabling thinkpad airbag, I rebooted and system froze for 45-60 seconds right after loging in (while loading startup programs). The device, \Device\Ide\iaStor0, did not respond within the timeout period.

 

It's operating fine now, but I'll be rebooting couple times.I have intel mobile chipset AHCI driver 10.1.0.1008 dated 11/6/2010.

 

 

AS SSD Benchmark 1.6.4067.34354
------------------------------
Name: M4-CT256M4SSD2
Firmware: 0001
Controller: iaStor
Offset: 1229824 K - OK
Size: 238.47 GB
Date: 5/17/2011 5:33:46 PM
------------------------------
Sequential:
------------------------------
Read: 386.27 MB/s
Write: 220.34 MB/s
------------------------------
4K:
------------------------------
Read: 19.77 MB/s
Write: 62.45 MB/s
------------------------------
4K-64Threads:
------------------------------
Read: 144.31 MB/s
Write: 174.49 MB/s
------------------------------
Access Times:
------------------------------
Read: -.--- ms
Write: 0.287 ms
------------------------------
Score:
------------------------------
Read: 203
Write: 259
Total: 565
------------------------------

AS SSD Benchmark 1.6.4067.34354------------------------------Name: M4-CT256M4SSD2Firmware: 0001Controller: iaStorOffset: 1229824 K - OKSize: 238.47 GBDate: 5/17/2011 5:33:46 PM------------------------------Sequential:------------------------------Read: 386.27 MB/sWrite: 220.34 MB/s------------------------------4K:------------------------------Read: 19.77 MB/sWrite: 62.45 MB/s------------------------------4K-64Threads:------------------------------Read: 144.31 MB/sWrite: 174.49 MB/s------------------------------Access Times:------------------------------Read: -.--- msWrite: 0.287 ms------------------------------Score:------------------------------Read: 203Write: 259Total: 565------------------------------

 

Thinkpad W520, 2720QM, Crucial SSD M4
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ibmford
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Re: W520 - various SSD issues

update: right after reboot, while loading the startup programs 2 freezes takes place about 3-4 minutes apart from each other (2 TSUNAMI waves) each last about 90 seconds. But, after that i seem to be in the clear. Do you think i should try go for the LPM hacks or use Microsoft driver? Anyone have input? I believe this did not happen in Intel 510, correct?

 

I REALLY didn't want to fudge with REGEDITS (i had hoped lessons learned from C300 was applied to C400/M4), but it looks like the consensus is on LPM hacks shown on these 2 pages.

 

http://forums.crucial.com/t5/Solid-State-Drives-SSD/Solution-C300-Disk-Freeze-ups-in-Windows-7-solve...

 

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?87349-New-OCZ-Vertex-3-Stalls/page3

Thinkpad W520, 2720QM, Crucial SSD M4
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ibmford
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Re: W520 - various SSD issues

I'm going to hold off on the regedits and continue to use the system AS IS to see if the IASTOR error repeats, but i'm thinking about enabling disk password in BIOS. Keep your fingers crossed, here comes the BRICK  :-)

 

If you don't hear back form me in the next 10 minutes, it's a BRICK!!!

Thinkpad W520, 2720QM, Crucial SSD M4
gan
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Re: W520 - various SSD issues

[ Edited ]

 

This is the benchmark i got using crystalmark for the OCZ:

 

 

           Sequential Read :   453.144 MB/s
          Sequential Write :   302.358 MB/s
         Random Read 512KB :   399.076 MB/s
        Random Write 512KB :   300.142 MB/s
    Random Read 4KB (QD=1) :    27.279 MB/s [  6660.0 IOPS]
   Random Write 4KB (QD=1) :    44.773 MB/s [ 10930.9 IOPS]
   Random Read 4KB (QD=32) :   250.419 MB/s [ 61137.4 IOPS]
  Random Write 4KB (QD=32) :   263.451 MB/s [ 64319.2 IOPS]

  Test : 500 MB [C: 10.8% (24.1/223.3 GB)] (x4)
  Date : 2011/05/06 18:42:45
    OS : Windows 7 Enterprise Edition SP1 [6.1 Build 7601] (x64)

 

 

I would recommend to try the registry change to see if that solve the problem, but i would also recommend to backup that part of the registry you change in case you want to revert back. As long as you can easily change back i don't think this could cause any real problem. I guess worst case scenario is that the registry change don't fix the problem.

 

-gan