Windows 7 Discussion

[#1]

Dear Lenovo Technical and Customer Support

I bought a Top-of-the-Line T61 Thinkpad in mid-2007 for $2,380 with Vista Professional (6465CTO)  This machine was so perpetually slow due to Windows Vista that I gave up on it.  That is a very expensive machine I bought from you and which I gave up on, and I was very disappointed with this ThinkPad purchase.

I have just checked and it has all the bells and whistles on it to run Windows 7, even in VM mode for XP.  After all, it is only 2 years old.  That is very exciting news for me, to be able to use my expensive machine with Windows 7 as I thought I would when I bought it (with Vista....)

One major problem - Lenovo is not yet offering for sale the Recovery & Install Discs for Windows 7 for my T61 machine.

You previously offered XP Recovery & Install Discs for sale for Windows Vista purchasers, so please now make Windows 7 Recovery & Install Discs for sale for us at a reasonable price as soon as possible.  I want the benefits of Windows 7, I have a very good ThinkPad machine, and do not want to purchase regular MS Windows 7 discs and lose all the ThinkPad functionality. 

Having spent $2,380 on a Lenovo ThinkPad with Windows Vista and had that totally poor quality experience, I feel I deserve to be able to take advantage of Windows 7 on my high-end ThinkPad $2,380 machine using a Lenovo Windows 7 Install as soon as possible.

Therefore, PLEASE MAKE WINDOWS 7 RECOVERY & INSTALL DISCS AVAILABLE FOR SALE FOR T61's and other recently sold Vista machines (mine is only 2 years old!!) at a reasonable cost.

Please can you supply us with a date (soon please) for this availability of these Recovery & Install Discs.

Best regards,

John Chamberlain

Los Angeles

[#2]

A definitive answer to your question has already be posted here .....  http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Windows-7-Launch/Windows-7-on-T61/m-p/167599#U167599

[#3]

Thanks Bill

However, as you know policies are flexible and can vary with demand.  While the XP "backwards" upgrade was not available for some time for T61 and other Vista machines, it did become available after pressure from customers and the field, at the reasonable cost of about $50.

With so many users having spent so much money on well engineered T61's and similar who were let down by the terrible software so with the machines was a travesty.

Lenovo customers who felt let down by these experiences should now be allowed to use their machines properly for the very first time with now Windows 7,  and whose hardware is clearly very capable of running it.  However, we need the Lenovo/ThinkPad functionality, since that is why we purchased a Thinkpad along with their warranties and service, and we did not buy a Dell or a Toshiba.

John Chamberlain

[#4]

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JRBC wrote:

However, as you know policies are flexible and can vary with demand.

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You need to complain to Microsoft, who set the licencing condition for Windows.  Lenovo is bound by Microsoft's licencing conditions, as are all the other laptop vendors.

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JRBC wrote:

While the XP "backwards" upgrade was not available for some time for T61 and other Vista machines, it did become available after pressure from customers and the field, at the reasonable cost of about $50.

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Only because Microsoft varied the licencing across the board for a couple of specific version of Vista to include an XP downgrade licence.  It was not something that Lenovo had any discertionary choiceto offer independently.

[#5]

John, since you cross posted on my blog too, I'll put my response here as well.

I don't think we even made a preload for T61 and older systems.  It's one thing to provide drivers.  It's another thing to go through and create a full blown preload which costs in time and money to do all of the testing necessary.  It wouldn't make sense to make a preload for a system we no longer sell.

[#6]

Hello:

I have been a Thinkpad owner for 10+ years and currently own a t61p (bought Jan 2008) and plan on continuing with Thinkpads in the future.

Due to the ruckus over Vista, a lot of us chose XP or Vista with XP downgrade (which was the same cost as XP). My choice of XP, and not the XP downgrade, was driven by my understanding that Lenovo's support is limited to the OS installed on the HDD. So, if one chooses Vista with XP downgrade and installs XP, then Lenovo doesn't suppport the system.

With the release of Windows 7, most of us have to choose between remaning with XP or migrating to Windows 7 without Lenovo's modifications. This means one either sticks to a decade old XP with Lenovo's support or moves to Windows 7 without Lenovo's support and mods.

There are two main reasons that drive my (and most of the other owners) choice.

1. hardware

2. software--this includes Lenovo's modifications of the OS.

Summary: Thinkpad users will not benefit from the softwareaspect of their choice of Thinkpad.

Suggestions:

The current issue with XP/Vista/Windows 7 is not our making. So we, the customers, should not be penalised for this mess.

Lenovo can and should solve this problem by offering full support for an upgrade to Windows 7, at a fair price, to recent models of Thinkpad irrespective of whether it was bought with XP or XP downgrade.

Best

[#7]

anga, welcome to the forum,

You will need to take this up with Microsoft. Lenovo was able to offer the "Anytime Upgrade" from XP to Vista at the time because Microsoft allowed it. Soon afterwards Lenovo was able to offer downgrades from Vista to XP because Microsoft allowed it.

As it stands at the moment has been stated by Matt Kohut in this thread and also by Confederate in this thread.

"Lenovo will NOT be providing nor creating Recovery media with Windows 7 for older and  / or non win 7 preloaded machines. This would be a violation of the volume license agreement with Microsoft."

I'm sorry, but this is how things stand.

[#8]

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Andy:

Thank you for the welcome.

Are you speaking on behalf of Lenovo?

Any license is a joint agreement between Microsoft and Lenovo (and other manufacturers) and indirectly the customers. So, it is not reasonable to assign all the responsibility to Microsoft.

The Vista to XP downgrade and XP to Vista upgrade was a result of customer demand on the OEMs and Microsoft.

This is Lenovo's forum and hence we ask Lenovo and we ask Microsoft on other forums. Asking us "to take this up with Microsoft" is not a reasonable response. Does this imply that Lenovo is willing to support older models but for Microsoft?

It is up to Lenovo to decide whether our voices warrant their involvement. We can only hope Lenovo does!!

Best

[#9]

No, I'm not speaking on behalf of Lenovo as I'm not a Lenovo employee, none of the moderators is.

At the end of the day, the decision is Microsoft's. The decision to allow downgrades came after large corporate customers put pressure on Microsoft because Vista didn't prove itself to be suitable, the OEMs also wanted to be able to sell computers and were clearly on the customers side.

The decision came some months after the release of Vista and not after 3 days.

Matt Kohut also makes a good point in this thread. Maybe you would like me to move your posts there?

[#10]

Andy:

That thread seems to be a better location--please move my posts and your replies.

The point I am making is that the decision is joint between Microsoft, OEMs and customers. Lenovo can say "ask Microsoft" only if they have already asked Microsoft and Microsoft refused and but for Microsoft's refusal Lenovo would have supported older systems!! is this the case?

Best