Windows 7 Launch

[#1]

What!?  "Crapware"  to help subsidize the computer?  Come on Lenovo....I would think you guys would be better than that.  Hmmm....I wonder, do you think Apple is subsidizing their iMac and Macbooks like this? As far as I know....not one 3rd party app installed.  Heck...they even offer an update to OSX for $29.00 ! {sigh}  Imagine if the PC manufacturers also took on developing the operating system!  Hmmm.....let's think about that for a moment and how it would affect the cost of a laptop or desktop.

The thing is and the reason why I bring up Apple - is that a company like Lenovo needs to do something radically different, be creative - like they have - and stick out like a sore thumb.  You guys don't have the pressure of developing an OS - just the hardware and whatever accessory apps.  Right now, all the PC makers are really just hanging out on the same boat....just maybe Lenovo has a leg up and over the side a little bit, but really....doing nothing out of the ordinary from each other.  Even down to the computer names - hard to remember, too many numbers, too many versions.  I would love to see Lenovo come flying out with totally radical way of doing things - think out of the box - wow me.

Just to purchase a computer online is not easy anymore either....too many options!!  So take a person with little or medium knowledge on how to use a computer - would more than likely insist the help of someone who knows alot (more than likely family or friend) - to help them ordering the computer.  That person who helped them - is more than likely the person who will set them up when the computer arrives.  I have always ordered my family's computers (or built them myself) - as they have no clue what is "good" or "what they need" - it's all too complicated.  So....even from Day 1 - will folks like us be involved with someone who needs help even ordering - and so us "computer nerds" don't like crapware and only gets in the way to assist in and setup the computers for these people.  So at the end of the day, if they run into a problem....guess who they call?

So...get rid of the crapware - keep things simple - that right there will be different.  It would make our lives so much easier and we can be in and out of our family or friends house in no time; nothing is more upsetting having to spend all day fine-tuning things so we won't have to come back again for a long time.  Windows 7 is here...so time to start brand new. =D

[#2]

I'n no fan of Symantec and what it does to my performance or reliability - but...

They do have a free removal tool on their website and from what I can tell, it does a good job of clearing out all the remnants.

[#3]

Norton Removal Tool: http://service1.symantec.com/Support/tsgeninfo.nsf/docid/2005033108162039?OpenDocument

[#4]

Actually we have worked very closely with Symantec to minimize the impact of AV.  And we are continuing to do so.

[#5]

that's good news indeed, Perfguy, but it would be really nice if an official uninstall tool could also be included to quickly and thoroughly remove the Symantec AV for those that prefer to remove it right away or use something else out of the gate.  Really, though...that goes for any of the included, non-essential tools that alot of us don't care to have.

I don't know why they have a separate uninstall tool....as I guess the normal uninstall leaves a bunch of stuff behind.  That's just an extra step in removing it that could be avoided altogether esp. if one does not know there is a separate uninstall tool that apparently does more than a normal uninstall.

[#6]

Good point, woodie.   We include one such tool for MS Office Trial.

Symantec Norton Internet Security 2009 by default is "ready to install" on our Win7 preloads.  If you never choose to install it, there is no need for a "thorough" cleaning.   This was by design, because historically you are correct demoware leaves stuff on the system.  But if you are electing to remove it after having sampled it for a while - I agree it would be nice to have a complete removal option.

As I am working with Symantec on NIS2010 (released but not ready for our EE preload)  and beyond I will mention it.  Thanks for the feedback.

[#7]

I still think a 'Remove Crapware' Application could be put together to list all the 'crap' and allow you to select them from a checklist (and i mean easier than the Control Panel/Programs/Unistall thing which is 1 at a time)  and , if you select "All" it also removes the Crapware remover...

TBH though good on you for asking this question - Will Lenovo eventually issue a response to the debate here though saying what you intend/don't intend to do about it or will this be left as an unaswered debate on the board?

[#8]

First let's separate our ThinkVantage Technologies from "Crapware"...

Before re-designing our TVTs for Win7 we took a long hard look at which apps still had value in Win7 relative to the value they provide in Vista and XP. 

For example: Presentation Director (or "Fn+F7" for those familiar with it) did not make the cut - instead we allow that function to pass through to the OS (but for usability the same function is accessible via the new "Windows key + P" as well as the good ole "Fn+F7") and therefore install one less component/have one less memory resident program. 

For those that made the cut, we made sure that high performance was an absolute requirement.  I think one such success story is Rescue and Recovery - it still does all it did before, but does so with practically 0 impact to system perfomance.  Power Manager is another good example, we made many improvements to improve it's startup time. 

I'm not saying everything is perfect - but we do have a focus on performance deeply entrenched in our development culture.

Now as for so called "crapware", all i can say is one man's trash is another man's treasure.  Certainly none of the software vendors we partner with would be particularly pleased to be lumped into a crapware category so I doubt you'll see a central "uninstaller" anytime soon. 

But if you have constructive feedback, post away, and be specific -- we are listening...

[#9]

My definition of 'crapware' isn't official Lenovo software that does have a value due to the way it optimises use of specific Lenovo technology items - Like Access connections for instance.

'Crapware' - agree the vendors of it may take umbrage at that term so let's call it "non-OEM 3rd party applications" if you want then to avoid them getting upset over it - would include MSoffice Trial (and all the bits that go with it like the SQL server stuff) , Norton (or Mcafee) and all the little add-ons that let you pick an ISP etc....

Making it easy to simply click on a list to remove completely would be helpful....that's the point I am making...

[#10]

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mkohut_Lenovo wrote:

That extra software keeps your system price down.  Would you honestly be willing to pay more for a system without this software?

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Absolutely.  My time spent stripping this crud off my machine is worth more to me than the "subsidy".

The other thing I would gladly pay for is a set of factory Lenovo Windows 7 disks for my T400...

Z.