Windows 7 Launch

[#1]

Part 7 of the Lenovo Enhanced Experience Video interview in which Matt Kohut and John Mese talk about extra software included in the preload.  We call it value added software.  Customers sometimes call it crapware.  No matter what you call it, everything is much improved.

[#2]

I'm happy you are finally talking about this, but I don't want your bloated images!

- Norton 30 day crapware doesn't uninstall cleanly

- Office 2007 with ribbon-hell -  I have to uninstall 10 modules (why the heck is SQL 2005 server in there?) then install Office 2003

And people wonder why they get BSODs

I understand the preloaded software subsidizes the price of the laptop.  But now I can't get the "Win 7 Tweaks and OS Optimizations" for my 3 week old T400s!

If it wasn't for the Nipple, I would dump Lenovo for a Mac

moderator note: edited for profanity.

[#3]

http://www.winsupersite.com/win7/thinkpad2009.asp

[#4]

---

Sarah-M01 wrote:

- Norton 30 day crapware doesn't uninstall cleanly

---

Grrr... Norton trialware... one of the banes of my existence...

Note from Moderator:  A comment which violated the forum rules was removed.

[#5]

Sarah-M01,

The nipple, or "touchpoint mouse" as some call it, does indeed rock.

- Symantec NIS 2009 should uninstall mostly clean.  It does leave some bits in the registry I think so that people cannot repeatedly use a 30-day trial.  Lots of demoware apps do that.

- Lenovo understands the Office uninstall issue, that is why we include an Office un-installer which is designed to remove "all" of it.  On a default preload it is localed in c:\swtools\UninstallOffice folder.  SQL2005 Express is used for the Business Contact Manager feature of Office.  But I can tell you I've worked personallty with MS on a couple fixes to make sure this does not affect boot performance (delayed-start for BCMSQL service and will not start SQL Server unless BCM feature is turned on - or something else you install uses it) .

[#6]

Agree with all the comments so far .

Suggestion : Create a 'crapware' Application and let people install what they want themselves. Leave Windows vanilla apart from the required Lenovo applications/drivers. Anything not actually NEEDED should be left to allow the user to install.

Do that and you get Kudos....

[#7]

Gkinghrn,

That extra software keeps your system price down.  Would you honestly be willing to pay more for a system without this software?  And if the answer is yes, are there enough people like you that would pay an extra $50 - $75 per machine?

I'd argue that the answer is yes if Lenovo were a monopoly.  In a competitive market though, most people buy like they buy airline tickets.  Even the slightest less expensive price is the one they buy.

Plus, some people define these tools as crap.  Others are definitely grateful they are there.

[#8]

You missed my point.

By all means put the stuff there just don't install all of it - ok so you get 'paid' to install it - the other option is to build an app called ' Remove ALL Crapware' with a checklist of what you want to pull off.. ie make it easy to get rid of it. TBH the first thing most knowledgable users do is remove it all. You end up leaving it for the less techie to keep on their systems with no idea of how to get rid of it.

MOST of it is crapware ... My personal views of Symantec and Office 2007 are that yes some folks like them but personally I don't...and I don't have a choice...

Lets put it this way if the industry as a whole STOPPED putting this crap on there then maybe the SYmantecs of the world and the MS's would reduce their price of the products as there would be more competition.

Most non-technical  end users who stay with Symantec or Office as installed do so through ignorance (office less so I will admit) and not choice. Symantec doesn't do much more for a home user than say MS Firewall (Free) or AVG(Free) so why should they pay to keep their AV running if they knew they had a choice?

Having said that maybe I am arguing against myself cos if they are that bad they will install whatever you guys make available to them anyway..so why do you need to physically INSTALL the stuff as a live app?

I think everytime i have laid my hands on a friends PC to help him the #1 thing to do has been remove all this stuff and install just what he needs and they have never said they missed anything.

It's a crap business model for the end consumer who has to waste $50 of his time removing this there has to be a better way to still maintain that price point ... you just need to think creatively about helping your customers rather than your suppliers...

[#9]

---

Gkinghrn wrote:

Most non-technical  end users who stay with Symantec or Office as installed do so through ignorance (office less so I will admit) and not choice. Symantec doesn't do much more for a home user than say MS Firewall (Free) or AVG(Free) so why should they pay to keep their AV running if they knew they had a choice?

---

Don't forget now that MS has a free antivirus: Security Essentials.

[#10]

There's a name for symantec bloatware: Ransomware. Unless you add more money, they will keep your system hostage, by not properly allowing a removal of their bloat.

The Symantec ransomware is the main reason the included windows license with a Thinkpad is considered worthless in this household. Any windows installation that has been touched by symatec tools, is by definition broken, and in need of a reinstall, and to reinstall you need PROPER installation disks (that hasn't got this infection preinstalled).

Lenovo's decision to include this with their system is taken into the calculation whenever I need to buy a new system, as a solid negative, so far the Thinkpad hardware, and the ease of System Update has kept me buying ... thinkpads.

As for "are you willing to pay extra for a machine without this?": Most definitely yes, in fact I'm doing this already, by purchasing the OS separately from the machine (as an additional buy, btw), just to avoid this.

Maybe we need a new EU directive prohibiting the sales of computers with preinstalled third party software that it is impossible to properly remove?

//Svein