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OtherSteve
Posts: 75
Registered: ‎05-15-2011
Location: USA
0

Re: 90w adapter leads to unusable, jumpy touchpad

[ Edited ]

I don't want this issue to go unnoticed by engineering as I believe it may be related to the problems with CPU throttling as well.  This is a confirmed problem with seemingly all X220s; could someone please forward to the correct people?

 

ALSO, an update:

 

Things get weirder.  When stressing the CPU and GPU with a program such as OCCT, the touchpad problems disappear.

 

I think this laptop is experiencing some pretty serious power-related problems.  Hopefully a BIOS update can correct them, or we may be looking at some sort of board or power supply replacement...

Owner/Technology Specialist
Triple-S Computers - http://www.TripleSComputers.com
Retired Employee
JameZ
Posts: 3,110
Registered: ‎07-11-2010
Location: Malaysia
0

Re: 90w adapter leads to unusable, jumpy touchpad

[ Edited ]

@All,

Sorry for being late to discover the thread here. Was tied up with the throttling, fan and BT issue on the X220.

Ok... After going through the thread let's confirm a few things before I raise it to engineering.

- TouchPad jumpy - Touchpad hangs a while then works fine again within a few second? When the TouchPad hangs, Is the trackpoint working fine?

- Only happens on a 90w slim adapter? Other adapters works fine?

- (usual) -> Drivers / BIOS all updated via TVSU?

Other information which I might miss which could help identify this issue faster?

 

Ooo right ... Can I have the model of the 90w AC adapter as well.

 

@OtherSteve,

Appreciate if you could PM me the following information so I can raise this to engineering.

Name:
Mobile:
Email:
MTM:
S/N:

Win 7 x64 / x86 / Home / Pro / Ulti:
SP1?:
Power Manager:
Power Management Driver:
Power Profile:
TouchPad driver:
BIOS:

Thanks
James

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W520 | 4176-38U | i7 - 2720QM | Quardo 1000M | 8GB RAM | 60GB OCZ Agility 3

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DevItHere
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎05-12-2011
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
0

Re: 90w adapter leads to unusable, jumpy touchpad

[ Edited ]

@JameZ

 

Here is my experience.  When I plug in my 90w Slim P/N 41R4510, the touchpad is sporadic in how it behaves.  While sliding your finger, it keeps stopping.  A few times, the mouse arrow would jump elsewhere on the screen (not in the direction you try to go when it paused). When I say stopping, I mean as long as a few seconds.

 

The 65w adapter that came with the TP works fine.

 

When it does this, it is not usable. 

 

The trackpoint works, but you can tell there are some minor pauses.  If you keep moving it around the screen and do not stop, you will see it stop briefly many times.  Those minor pauses are annoying enough to also make it not usable.

 

If I plug it into the TP or to the slice battery, the same problem.  It does not seem to do it when the machine is under a heavier load. It seems to do it less or not at all while the batteries are charging, though I think it still does it a little.

 

I am current on all updates.  It did this out of the box and after all updates.

 

I stopped using the Slim after I discovered this because I kind of worry if it was a power problem, I did not want to risk it frying my TP.

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Stepinsky
Posts: 16
Registered: ‎05-31-2011
Location: Germany
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Re: 90w adapter leads to unusable, jumpy touchpad

The touchpad issue with the 90W slimline adapter seems familiar to me. Users of capacitiv touchscreen devices often encounter similar problems. It's mostly related to problems with the power supply. 

You can find some of the details in this Wikipedia article:


If the computer is powered by an external power supply unit (PSU), the detailed construction of the PSU will influence the virtual ground effect; a touchpad may work properly with one PSU but be jerky or malfunction with another (this does not imply any electrical risk whatsoever, a delicate capacitive ground, not a contact ground, is at issue). This has been known to cause touchpad problems when a manufacturer's PSU, which will have been designed to work with the touchpad, is replaced by a different type. This effect can be checked by touching a metallic part of the computer with the other hand and seeing if operation is restored. In some cases touching the (insulated) power supply with some part of the body, or using the computer on the lap instead of on a desk, while working can restore correct operation.

So I think Lenovo has to improve the 90W slimline PSU. Maybe the voltage output is not proper stabilized on low currents.

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atomicminded
Posts: 54
Registered: ‎05-11-2011
Location: USA
0

Re: 90w adapter leads to unusable, jumpy touchpad


Stepinsky wrote:

The touchpad issue with the 90W slimline adapter seems familiar to me. Users of capacitiv touchscreen devices often encounter similar problems. It's mostly related to problems with the power supply. 

You can find some of the details in this Wikipedia article:


If the computer is powered by an external power supply unit (PSU), the detailed construction of the PSU will influence the virtual ground effect; a touchpad may work properly with one PSU but be jerky or malfunction with another (this does not imply any electrical risk whatsoever, a delicate capacitive ground, not a contact ground, is at issue). This has been known to cause touchpad problems when a manufacturer's PSU, which will have been designed to work with the touchpad, is replaced by a different type. This effect can be checked by touching a metallic part of the computer with the other hand and seeing if operation is restored. In some cases touching the (insulated) power supply with some part of the body, or using the computer on the lap instead of on a desk, while working can restore correct operation.

So I think Lenovo has to improve the 90W slimline PSU. Maybe the voltage output is not proper stabilized on low currents.


Good find! And it would explain why the issues goes away under high load (higher current.)

 

 

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JameZ
Posts: 3,110
Registered: ‎07-11-2010
Location: Malaysia
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Re: 90w adapter leads to unusable, jumpy touchpad

@All,

Issue has been raised to engineering.

I will keep everyone posted here

//JameZ

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W520 | 4176-38U | i7 - 2720QM | Quardo 1000M | 8GB RAM | 60GB OCZ Agility 3

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Soap
Posts: 144
Registered: ‎09-16-2008
Location: NC-USA
0

Re: 90w adapter leads to unusable, jumpy touchpad

OtherSteve,

 

Just to confirm, you are using the following:

Lenovo 90W Ultraslim AC/DC Combo Adapter - US/Canada

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:item.detail?...

 

 

Can you give me the FRU or part number from your ultraslim 90W device?

 

Interestingly enough, I don't see that the X220 is supported but I will get confirmation.

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=MIGR-72900

Blue Screen Again
mellospace
Posts: 54
Registered: ‎05-24-2011
Location: New York City
0

Re: 90w adapter leads to unusable, jumpy touchpad

Wow, y


Soap wrote:

OtherSteve,

 

Just to confirm, you are using the following:

Lenovo 90W Ultraslim AC/DC Combo Adapter - US/Canada

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:item.detail?...

 

 

Can you give me the FRU or part number from your ultraslim 90W device?

 

Interestingly enough, I don't see that the X220 is supported but I will get confirmation.

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=MIGR-72900


Wow, you right about it not stating that it support the x220 on the support info page or the product page, while this other lenovo 90watt ac adapter does states it supports the x220 on the support info page, but not on the product page. But both are listed on the accessories for the X220 (model 4286CTO) which means it might be a mistake on the lenovo website.

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=MIGR-61193

 

The lenovo page for accessories for the X220 might be wrong then because when you look for batteries and power adapters, the slim appears there and also on the customization page when one is purchasing the laptop.

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bananaman
Posts: 3,650
Registered: ‎04-25-2008
Location: San Francisco
0

Re: 90w adapter leads to unusable, jumpy touchpad

The Accessories Compatibility Guide also says that the Lenovo 90W Ultraslim AC/DC Combo Adapter (U.S., Canada Power Cord) 41R4493 is compatible with the X220:

 

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/ACCS-GUIDE.html

I don't work for Lenovo. I'm a crazy volunteer!
Blue Screen Again
mellospace
Posts: 54
Registered: ‎05-24-2011
Location: New York City
0

Re: 90w adapter leads to unusable, jumpy touchpad

[ Edited ]

 


bananaman wrote:

The Accessories Compatibility Guide also says that the Lenovo 90W Ultraslim AC/DC Combo Adapter (U.S., Canada Power Cord) 41R4493 is compatible with the X220:

 

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/ACCS-GUIDE.html


If you look at page 14 where the ultra slim 90W adapter is, the x220 is not listed there so I dont find where it says that this ac power adapter is compatible with the x220.
I'm talking about this pdf by the way...
http://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/options_iso/all_day_computing_dec2010.pdf
Moderator edit: Removed duplicate quote.