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Amscram
Posts: 36
Registered: ‎06-20-2011
Location: United States
0

Re: Faint Ghosting on X220 IPS screen

[ Edited ]

@José 


Lenovo has implicitly/officially stated that all the screens for these laptops are expected to be faulty and display moderate to severe image persistence problems. They have also made it clear to us that they don't want to fix the issue, as several people have already sent in their laptops for repair, but received them back still broken.

 

Therefore, it stands to reason that no matter which IPS screen option you choose, you are going to have a very high chance of receiving one with a faulty screen. If Lenovo had properly working screens for these laptops, they would not be so quiet by trying to cover up this situation. If all it took was for us to send in our laptops and ask for the "better" screen option, we would all be doing that right this minute.

 

I'm sorry, José . If having a screen with potentially horrible "ghosting" will make you disappointed, then the odds are very good that you are going to be disappointed (like most of us) with this laptop. Of course, if you are willing to gamble with a lot of money, you may get lucky and receive a screen that is unintentionally working. At least one person here has been so lucky. Everyone else, not so.

 

 

802.11n
JNavas
Posts: 573
Registered: ‎08-07-2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
0

Re: Faint Ghosting on X220 IPS screen

[ Edited ]

Amscram wrote:

@José
Lenovo has implicitly/officially stated that all the screens for these laptops are expected to be faulty and display moderate to severe image persistence problems. They have also made it clear to us that they don't want to fix the issue, as several people have already sent in their laptops for repair, but received them back still broken.

Therefore, it stands to reason that no matter which IPS screen option you choose, you are going to have a very high chance of receiving one with a faulty screen. [SNIP]


That's not what Lenovo has stated, and there actually is no real evidence of how extensive (or severe) the problem is.

Hope that helps,
John
ThinkPad T420s [ i7-2640M CPU | 8GB RAM | 1TB SSD | Bay Battery | BT | Webcam | FR | Win7Pro64 ]
802.11n
JNavas
Posts: 573
Registered: ‎08-07-2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
0

Re: Faint Ghosting on X220 IPS screen


underst0rm wrote:

Mine is also a LP125WH2-SLB1, and shows ghosting quite fast.

Lenovo, this is not exceptable - I love your machine - but hate this display.  I wrote to most technology blogs I know off - hopefully some descide to bring some attantion to the the matter.


Your rights are spelled out in your warranty (subject to laws and regulations). See UM006724.

 

What Your Service Provider Will Do to Correct Problems
When you contact a Service Provider, you must follow the problem determination and resolution procedures specified.
Your Service Provider will attempt to diagnose and resolve your problem over the telephone, e-mail or through remote assistance. Your
Service Provider may direct you to download and install designated software updates.
Some problems can be resolved with a replacement part that you can install yourself called a “Customer Replaceable Unit” or “CRU.” If
so, your Service Provider will ship the CRU to you for you to install.
If your problem cannot be resolved over the telephone or remotely, through your application of software updates or the installation of a
CRU by you, your Service Provider will arrange for service under the type of warranty service designated for the product under the
section titled “Warranty Information.”
If your Service Provider determines that it is unable to repair your product, your Service Provider will replace it with one that is at least
functionally equivalent.
If your Service Provider determines that it is unable to either repair or replace your product, your sole remedy is to return the product to
your place of purchase or to Lenovo for a refund of your purchase price.

 Seems to me your options are:

  1. Wait for a replacement IPS screen.
  2. Ask for a replacement TN screen and partial refund.
  3. Return for full refund.
Hope that helps,
John
ThinkPad T420s [ i7-2640M CPU | 8GB RAM | 1TB SSD | Bay Battery | BT | Webcam | FR | Win7Pro64 ]
Blue Screen Again
kilou
Posts: 37
Registered: ‎07-09-2011
Location: CH
0

Re: Faint Ghosting on X220 IPS screen

Guys, why do you still post on this forum about this issue? Prospective buyers read reviews and reviewers and tech journal must be informed about this issue. A good review is on nptebookcheck.net. They may update their review if you mention this problem. We have been waiting for that "engineering tip" for so long just to be told its normal operation... Well then lenovo should list ghosting as a feature if they want to be honest. Please post elsewhere, it will be much more useful than this moderated forum. Prospective buyers have to know about that and they'll stop think that x220 is great because of the ips screen.
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Amscram
Posts: 36
Registered: ‎06-20-2011
Location: United States
0

Re: Faint Ghosting on X220 IPS screen

[ Edited ]

@kilou

I believe people keep posting here in hopes that Lenovo will acknowledge the flaw in their screens and simply do the right thing by replacing them with properly working ones.

Even though most people here have received bad screens, a couple people claim to have perfectly good ones. If that is accurate, that would logically mean that Lenovo makes a working batch of screens for our laptops.

If so, wouldn't it be easier for them to make their customers happy by replacing the faulty screens with the good ones some people claim to have?

Blue Screen Again
kilou
Posts: 37
Registered: ‎07-09-2011
Location: CH
0

Re: Faint Ghosting on X220 IPS screen

Amscram,

 

according their answer, Lenovo simply does not consider this ghosting issue as a flaw. They even say it's normal. I don't think that it is a wise answer but anyway it's what Lenovo chose to answer. I must confess that I do not possess myself an X220 as I cancelled my order after reading the many issues with this laptop. I have specifically waited for that famous engineering tip about ghosting in hope that I may place a new order for an X220 but Lenovo's answer conviced me to get another brand. 

 

I'm just thinking about other prospective buyers who did just like me: read tons of reviews where the IPS screen of the X220 is praised as one of the best laptop screen ever......before coming to this forum and getting back to the truth that says that you cannot get a significantly better screen for a 50$ premium. I mean it is a big waste of time to read good reviews just to find afterwards that actually real world experience is a lot different. I must say that I much prefer poor viewing angles than ghosting! Add to that the fact that Lenovo still sells the i7 X220 with a 65W while it is known for quite some time now that the 90W (non slim) adapter does solve throttling issues but they keep charging customers a premium for that adapter...

 

I believe that informing prosepective buyers about these issues and Lenovo's attitude is fair to them and it may also be beneficial to current disappointed users of the X220 because probably Lenovo will be much more reactive if their products get a poor reputation in reviews. Why do we all buy business laptops and not consumer ones afterall: service! Lenovo's answer to the ghosting issue is for me a significant proof of lack of service.  Now again my intention is not to start a flame at Lenovo but just to mention what's actual real world experiences with their laptops in reviews. To that extent, notebookcheck.net appears as a great site because they update their reviews with customer inputs. I already contacted them to mention the ghosting issue with a link to this forum. Will see if they update their page. But it would be good if actual owners of X220 did the same.

 

No problem with posting here though. It's just that this forum is mostly known to people who already have a thinkpad and need to troubleshoot it, not prospective buyers.

 

I'll stop the OT here :smileywink: 

What's DOS?
umamimon2
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎08-02-2011
Location: Los Angeles
0

Re: Faint Ghosting on X220 IPS screen

I just had my screen swapped out via warranty and the new unit was not only defective, but also EXTREMELY glossy. I was initially afraid that it was the TN panel instead of the IPS but the viewing angles arn't that bad and the image doesn't go negative when i look at extreme angles. Can someone explain this discrepancy? I really dont like glossy screens and if it's going to be a choice between a matte IPS screen with defects vs a glossy screen without, id rather take the former

 

=(

Fanfold Paper
eschoon
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎07-06-2011
Location: Seattle, WA
0

Re: Faint Ghosting on X220 IPS screen

Lenovo: I'm going to say here what you can't. What (at least some of) you are thinking right now inside company walls. "We shipped a lemon." Maybe not a whole lemon, but no matter how good the rest of this box is, the screen is what we see the most of and it's just not up to snuff. You may deny this publicly right now but anyone inside the company that takes sincere pride in the ThinkPad heritage (and there are many of you) must be uncomfortable with this situation. 

 

I'd be 100% happy with my x220t (great features, great performance, great keyboard, great expansion options in a tiny package) if it weren't for the screen issue. It's almost embarrasing to show this screen to others. I'm normally a vocal advocate of my ThinkPad du jour, but this is the first time I've been unable to hold my head high and show off the new baby with pride. You should worry about this.

 

Someone inside Lenovo made a bad choice, picked an inferior part to increase margin or maybe they didn't and you got handed bad product by a supplier. You can't say this kind of thing publically on the disucssion board, which is a shame, but sadly we've grown used to it from companies like Apple. I've often thought of you as the opposite of Apple in many positive ways. This isn't one of them.

 

I'd love to see you be the opposite of Apple and come out and own this, be upfront about it and either make it right or don't but at least be straight with us and explain why you can't. Just don't try to bluff us on this one. Like a majority of users here, I've owned many many ThinkPads, going back over a decade. I have two in the house right now, along with several MacBooks. I don't want this to be my last ThinkPad, and it won't but you need to step forward on this.

 

If you can make it right, do. If you can't now but can later, say so even if you aren't sure when. If you can't then say "Listen folks, we are absolutely sorry, we screwed up, we will do better next time and this is why we can't fix this." Revise the sales materials to clearly explain that, despite this nominally being an IPS display, it may not be the premium display experience IPS has often stood for in the computer industry. Above all, stop tossing this hot potato over to engineering to get a "this is normal for this display" rubber stamp. That doesn't mean anything real to the users that bought this product. Not because we don't understand this stuff, but because we do and we know it's obfuscation and buck-passing.

 

Lenovo, the people in this forum love you. We love your products. We advocate and stand by you. We visit your design blogs. We care enough to be here. We are your loyal advocates and wish to remain so. Do something right here, please.

 

Ethan Schoonover

es@ethanschoonover.com

 

 

Token Ring
jyeah
Posts: 161
Registered: ‎12-06-2010
Location: United States
0

Re: Faint Ghosting on X220 IPS screen

[ Edited ]

eschoon wrote:

Lenovo: I'm going to say here what you can't. What (at least some of) you are thinking right now inside company walls. "We shipped a lemon." Maybe not a whole lemon, but no matter how good the rest of this box is, the screen is what we see the most of and it's just not up to snuff. You may deny this publicly right now but anyone inside the company that takes sincere pride in the ThinkPad heritage (and there are many of you) must be uncomfortable with this situation. 

 

I'd be 100% happy with my x220t (great features, great performance, great keyboard, great expansion options in a tiny package) if it weren't for the screen issue. It's almost embarrasing to show this screen to others. I'm normally a vocal advocate of my ThinkPad du jour, but this is the first time I've been unable to hold my head high and show off the new baby with pride. You should worry about this.

 

Someone inside Lenovo made a bad choice, picked an inferior part to increase margin or maybe they didn't and you got handed bad product by a supplier. You can't say this kind of thing publically on the disucssion board, which is a shame, but sadly we've grown used to it from companies like Apple. I've often thought of you as the opposite of Apple in many positive ways. This isn't one of them.

 

I'd love to see you be the opposite of Apple and come out and own this, be upfront about it and either make it right or don't but at least be straight with us and explain why you can't. Just don't try to bluff us on this one. Like a majority of users here, I've owned many many ThinkPads, going back over a decade. I have two in the house right now, along with several MacBooks. I don't want this to be my last ThinkPad, and it won't but you need to step forward on this.

 

If you can make it right, do. If you can't now but can later, say so even if you aren't sure when. If you can't then say "Listen folks, we are absolutely sorry, we screwed up, we will do better next time and this is why we can't fix this." Revise the sales materials to clearly explain that, despite this nominally being an IPS display, it may not be the premium display experience IPS has often stood for in the computer industry. Above all, stop tossing this hot potato over to engineering to get a "this is normal for this display" rubber stamp. That doesn't mean anything real to the users that bought this product. Not because we don't understand this stuff, but because we do and we know it's obfuscation and buck-passing.

 

Lenovo, the people in this forum love you. We love your products. We advocate and stand by you. We visit your design blogs. We care enough to be here. We are your loyal advocates and wish to remain so. Do something right here, please.

 

Ethan Schoonover

es@ethanschoonover.com

 

 


I agree with most of what you said there Ethan. I have a X220T as well and I really like how it feels overall, but I think an additional issue on top of the image persistence that bothers me sometimes is the poor pen performance on the edge of the screen (since I do quite a bit of drawing and the messed up lines are really hampering to certain precise drawings I do).

 

Especially when I draw dark lines (and drawing takes a while with parts of the picture remaining stationary for 10+ minutes) with a light background there are faint remains of the dark lines whenever I draw and it's very frustrating.

 

Other issues such as BIOS 1.11+ that disables eGPU solutions really make the X220/T series short of being of a class of its own.

Blue Screen Again
kilou
Posts: 37
Registered: ‎07-09-2011
Location: CH
0

Re: Faint Ghosting on X220 IPS screen

[ Edited ]

I guess we don't wait for apologizes from lenovo. They should simply take appropriate QA actions: stop selling defective units and offer replacement panels (tn) to current users for whom ghosting make the laptop unusable while investigating root cause.

 

Moderator note; comment edited which did not conform with the forum rules