X220 cpu throttling problem

[NSGundy]

Agreeing there 100% with Stephen. Lenovo is handling this very well!

Gundy 

[GraierGeist]

"Thanks!

Appreciate you keeping us posted.
Will the mSATA fix be in the 1st or 2nd BIOS update?"

Maybe.  See this thread:

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-ThinkPad-Laptops/X220-with-USB3-0-no-mSata-SSD-possible/m-p/480...

[randfee]

interesting to read about the BIOS Updates. Kudos for working at it, but, that is the manufacturer's duty!

What I keep wondering though. If the power supply just doesn't provide enough juice, how could any Software/BIOS Update ever reduce the power necessary for the same task running WITHOUT reducing performance. That just sounds illogical!

It seems to me that, if it really is a PSU issue, the only fix should be to exchange the PSUs with stronger ones!

Decreasing performance certainly is not acceptable, on battery yes, but not when attached to an outlet PSU.

Since I have no inside into the cause of the problem but the comments of the staff members here, I can only hope Lenovo agrees. Just saying:

If the engineers underestimated the power necessary to drive these CPUs, they should definitely admit their fault and provice proper PSUs to the buyer and NOT go and lessen performance to make up for their mistake.

[MichaelPS]

I have the very same problem with the much weaker Lenovo Edge 15 (NVLGSMH). I understand this is not the right place regarding my laptop, but perhaps it'd help engineers to know what they're dealing with. And frankly, I'd like a solution as well.

2x2GB ram + 9 cell (or slightly rarer, 6 cell) battery + connected to 65w AC = throttling issue. 

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-Edge/Problem-with-Lenovo-Edge-15-CPU-combined-when-charging-on-...

Will the upcoming bios update also be applicable to my Edge 15? 

[JNavas]

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randfee wrote:

interesting to read about the BIOS Updates. Kudos for working at it, but, that is the manufacturer's duty!

What I keep wondering though. If the power supply just doesn't provide enough juice, how could any Software/BIOS Update ever reduce the power necessary for the same task running WITHOUT reducing performance. That just sounds illogical!

It seems to me that, if it really is a PSU issue, the only fix should be to exchange the PSUs with stronger ones!

Decreasing performance certainly is not acceptable, on battery yes, but not when attached to an outlet PSU.

Since I have no inside into the cause of the problem but the comments of the staff members here, I can only hope Lenovo agrees. Just saying:

If the engineers underestimated the power necessary to drive these CPUs, they should definitely admit their fault and provice proper PSUs to the buyer and NOT go and lessen performance to make up for their mistake.

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"There is no magic."© All a BIOS fix can do is improve throttling to minimize performance issues within the available power budget. Apparently the only real solution to worst case performance is to get the 90W AC adapter. Lenovo should have disclosed from the get go that worst case performance requires the 90W AC adapter, not just the smaller and lighter 65W adapter, and should have made the 90W AC adapter an option during checkout instead of just an add-on accessory. I think most buyers would still prefer the smaller and lighter 65W adapter (as I do), but obviously not all. Under the circumstances, I think Lenovo should offer a substantial discount coupon on the purchase of a 90W AC adapter (say $30 off with free shipping) to prior X220 purchasers.

[randfee]

I find it under no circumstances acceptable that they promote a certain CPU, which almost directly translates for computing power and then do not provide a proper PSU to power this CPU at its intended specs.

As you said, especially for the ones purchasing an Ultrabase for desktop usage + another 65W PSU, they should at least offer a free exchange towards the 90W power supply. I have an Ultrabase + 65W PSU on order going to be delivered soon. Can't believe the PSU is underpowered although they clearly recommend it.

Again, I don't see how a Bios Update could cause the CPU to consume less power WITHOUT decreasing performance and THAT as a solution to the problem would be even more unacceptable. If they miscalculated the power need for the hardware, they should replace the power supplies, everything else would just not be right, artificially decreasing CPU performance most certainly is not.

Looking forward to a detailed explanation.

[GraierGeist]

This particular problem might not necessarily be a 65W vs 90W power issue, but a matter of the "nuts and bolts" of power management at either the chipset, BIOS, or software level.  Total system power draw, during intensive CPU+GPU loads, is peaking over 65 watts, causing the locked throttling.  It could be that power management can be set up, at such times, to draw power from both the battery and AC adapter, which would be sustainable as long as, at full utilization of system resources at TDP, did not peak above 65W for too much of the time, not allowing the battery to charge.

Then again, it might be that full utilization of system resources, along with battery charging, can't be accomplished on only the 90W adapter.

IMHO, Leno's holding off on simply sending out 90W adapters to all (and it would need to be all or none) X220 owners, makes sense, and is good customer service.  I think that this is more than just Lenovo trying to save a few bucks.  I want their engineers to thoroughly understand the problem rather than rushing out a fix that only solves half the problem or causes more problems.  And I for one, want to keep my lighter 65W adapter if Lenovo can find an acceptable fix in a timely matter.

Of course, it would have been better if there had been no locked throttling problem to begin with.

I still believe the X220 is an exceptional laptop, albeit one with a couple of teething pains.

[billbolton Community Moderator]

The engineering staff at Lenovo are the only ones who are in a position to look at the totality of the issue in terms of the X220 system environment.

As end users we only have 65W and 90W power supplies available, but cannot tell if the problem is caused by a small miss on the energy available from a 65W power supply or large miss, and can only tell that it does not occur with a 90W supply.

If it is a small miss there may well be a completely different set of possibe options to address it, than if it is a more significant miss.

Random speculations on what Lenovo MUST do in terms of a solution are simply not helpful to anyone, IMO.

Cheers,

Bill.

[someonelse]

Concerning the 90W power supply: is each 90W power supply by Lenovo useable with the X220? I mean can they all plugged in into the X220 or are some of the plugs formed differently such that they don't fit.

I am still thinking about which ultraportable is best for me at the moment and I have read that the Sony Vaio SA and Z21 are not that great either (fan issues as well ...). So I am reconsidering buying a X220. Anyone really happy using it here (heavily with coding and a lot of computation intensive stuff)?

[JNavas]

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someonelse wrote:
I am still thinking about which ultraportable is best for me at the moment and I have read that the Sony Vaio SA and Z21 are not that great either (fan issues as well ...). So I am reconsidering buying a X220. Anyone really happy using it here (heavily with coding and a lot of computation intensive stuff)?

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I'm really happy with my X220. Excellent keyboard. Super IPS display. Amazing speed for such a small and light package. Great features. First class engineering throughout. CPU throttling isn't a problem even in CPU intensive tasks: When I max out all 4 threads on 2 cores in video rendering, the i7-2620M stays in full 3.2 GHz Turbo Boost indefinitely with only occasional brief drops to 3.0-3.1 GHz. The X220 may well be the best of the many ThinkPads I've owned.