Support in other languages: 
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Do you mean 
Reply
What's DOS?
wildta
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎07-19-2011
Location: CA
0

Re: X220 cpu throttling problem

I've read folks using kill-a-watt on other laptops and when they decrease screen brightness the wattage is reduced, sometimes by 10+ watts!  It's not definitive but it gives you an idea.  Under loaded CPU+GPU, it must be maxing at 65watts but has anyone tested it?  Also testing a 90 Watt AC adapter just to see how much additional wattage over 65 is being drawn during load.

 

 

Mark_Lenovo
Posts: 7,939
Topics: 411
Kudos: 1,337
Solutions: 288
Registered: ‎11-19-2007
Location: RTP, North Carolina

Re: X220 cpu throttling problem

[ Edited ]

der72,

 

This thread is focused on the throttling discussion, so let's stick to that topic rather than dragging in a laundry list of  other X220 issues from other threads.   Because you posted a reasonable set of questions, I'll reply here and then trust that the discussion will continue with regard to throttling.

 

1) There are actually two throttling scenarios.  One occurs when the CPU and GPU are both stressed and the system is running on the 65 watt adapter.   BIOS 48 and 49 (8DET49WW / 1.19) should have resolved the other scenario in which the system could get stuck, throttled at 800mhz under some conditions.

 

2) We are continuing to work on the fan.  We had an initial high speed mode issue and a cycling issue.   The status is that a new BIOS just came out on 7/22/11 and we are monitoring the results from those that have applied it.  For the T520, X1 that have had similar BIOS updates, customers have reported the whine is greatly reduced, along with cycling.  Results for X220 don't seem as promising based on that thread.

 

3) IPS - there is a tip pending release which explains IPS vs TN functionality of the panel and why image persistence can occur.   Lenovo engineering believes this normal functionality for this panel.

 

4) Backlight bleed - I have seen a few examples reported in the forum and engineering is evaluating examples from the field.

 

5) mSATA - should be enabled via this BIOS update as well.  Not mentioned in your list, but I know it has been a prominent discussion point as well...

 

digitaltrix, bender957, et all,

 

I'd really like to avoid ongoing struggles and debates over censorship and I'm asking for your help.  We aren't trying to alienate or unduly limit / censor people here, but we are trying to keep the forum operating in a constructive fashion.  

 

If you want to make a video that more clearly demonstrates an issue and the real world conditions under which it occurs so that others can better understand it, then great - that's helpful.   The point of the forum is to have discussion to share knowledge, help each other out on an individual basis, and in the case where we see common symptoms being reported, for Lenovo to get involved and work to address them.   

 

We are doing that.   Could we move faster?  Perhaps.  But, sometimes things are easier said than done and there is a perception that if the noise / pain level gets turned up that things will move faster.  The squeaky wheel theory as it were.

 

I can understand that if everyone were being ignored, but we aren't ignoring your feedback, we are actively working these issues.

 

If you have individual concerns - please send me a PM.

 

Thanks for your support and continued constructive participation here !

 

Best regards,

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

____________________________________________

ThinkPads: S30, T43, X60t, X1, W700ds, IdeaPad Y710, IdeaCentre: A300, IdeaPad K1
Mark Hopkins
Program Manager, Lenovo Social Media (Services)
twitter @lenovoforums
English English Community   Deutsche Deutsche Community   Español Comunidad en Español   ru.gif Русскоязычное Сообщество
Ctrl-Alt-Del
der72
Posts: 60
Registered: ‎06-20-2011
Location: UK
0

Re: X220 cpu throttling problem

Mark,

 

Very good and detailed update. Thanks.

 

Ctrl-Alt-Del
digitaltrix
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎07-25-2011
Location: Dallas. TX

Re: X220 cpu throttling problem

Mark,

I want to thank you as a potential customer and first time Thinkpad buyer for articulating so well your thoughts on this matter and for further addressing & acknowledging the issues so transparently for all of us.

I certainly didn't mean to provoke or exploit the issue and anger around it, rather I see videos as one more source to elucidate the problems for those of us who are reading different reports and wondering if this is as common as it seems to be and likewise for Lenovo staff too, although I'm sure Lenovo is clear on this as well by now as the forum peaks 500 messages.


In any case, I am still buying the X220, hopefully in the i7 format and I look forward to sharing and learning more from the community and from you and other helpful Lenovo staff.

 

I do have a concern about  the 90W adapter replacement for which I will PM you as I haven't yet bought my system and could do fine with a 90 instead of 65, only there is no way to configure this.  I hope you can help me on the matter


Thanks once again and let's hope we can keep it clean and non-squeaky around here

Mark_Lenovo
Posts: 7,939
Topics: 411
Kudos: 1,337
Solutions: 288
Registered: ‎11-19-2007
Location: RTP, North Carolina

Re: X220 cpu throttling problem

digitaltrix,

 

Thanks for that as well !   I'll look for your PM.

 

As it stands, the system ships with the 65 watt adapter and customers can purchase the 90 watt as an upgrade.  Interesting suggestion - if the AC adapter were configure to order component when building the system, and that the 90 watt was added to the config as a option like upgrading memory, then perhaps it could be offered at a slight premium vs the 65 watt and have it ship with the 90 watt by choice instead of having to pay for the whole 90 watt and winding up with 2 adapters as it is today.

 

That's an interesting idea and one I'll suggest to the appropriate team to see if it is possible.  

 

Upstream there was some discussion on thermals.  So far as I know thermals aren't the reason for the throttling we are seeing - these are a power budget issue.    Thermals can cause throttling though and it is always possible that a system could have an issue causing it to run hot.  On a single example basis,  I would advise those customers to check their power manager, update BIOS, clean the fan (if it has age on it), and then contact service.

 

I like your spirit on videos and pictures.   Often, some of the issues are actually a low % occurance, but enough that we can have 5, 10, 50 people in the forum talking about it and in those instances we can sometimes have trouble recreating the issue with systems that we have on hand, and so having some pics or a video really helps to demonstrate the issue.   On balance, if people only make videos about your products when there are issues, it can give a distorted view of the product to potential buyers.

 

A little squeaking is good.  It keeps everyone honest and let's us know you care.  

 

Best regards,

 

Mark

 

 

____________________________________________

ThinkPads: S30, T43, X60t, X1, W700ds, IdeaPad Y710, IdeaCentre: A300, IdeaPad K1
Mark Hopkins
Program Manager, Lenovo Social Media (Services)
twitter @lenovoforums
English English Community   Deutsche Deutsche Community   Español Comunidad en Español   ru.gif Русскоязычное Сообщество
802.11n
JNavas
Posts: 573
Registered: ‎08-07-2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
0

Re: X220 cpu throttling problem

I've now seen CPU throttling under normal (not synthetic) heavy CPU load and without heavy GPU load that's so severe that I've changed my position on this issue. See video here. The X220 was running the latest 1.19 BIOS on the standard 65W AC Adapter with a fully charged 9-cell battery installed. It was under normal (not synthetic) heavy compute load on all 4 threads on both cores, but without any significant GPU load. Note how Core Speed jumps back and forth between 800 MHz and 3200 MHz. I could accept some modest degradation, but these frequent big jumps all the way down to 800 MHz are unacceptable.

Hope that helps,
John
ThinkPad T420s [ i7-2640M CPU | 8GB RAM | 1TB SSD | Bay Battery | BT | Webcam | FR | Win7Pro64 ]
lead_org
Posts: 20,895
Topics: 128
Kudos: 1,249
Solutions: 1,341
Registered: ‎12-19-2008
Location: Australia, Melbourne
0

Re: X220 cpu throttling problem

In Australia, the option to choose 65 watt versus 90 watt (the latter is 15 dollars more) was available for couple of years for different machines.
Regards,

Jin Li

May this year, be the year of 'DO'!

I am a volunteer, and not a paid staff of Lenovo or Microsoft
community supermod
erik
Posts: 5,015
Registered: ‎11-23-2007
Location: United States

Re: X220 cpu throttling problem

@JNavas - exactly what application were you running and specifically what were you doing with it?   which power plan was used?   what power settings are you using in the BIOS?

 

judging purely by CPU-Z it simply looks like your system is jumping from an idle state to a full-power state depending on the demand of your application.   this would be normal.   however, without knowing specifically what you were doing ("heavy compute load"?) it's impossible to accurately discern whether this is normal or problematic.

 

specificity helps... a lot. :smileywink:

 

thanks

ThinkStation C20Microsoft MVP
ThinkPad X1C · X220 · X60T · s30

Ctrl-Alt-Del
digitaltrix
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎07-25-2011
Location: Dallas. TX
0

Re: X220 cpu throttling problem

I had previously seen a site that breaksdown the concerns over CPU throttling with X220 with some pictures, testing and clear-cut directions on how to try and duplicate the results (here's hoping you can't).


Please note, I cannot independently verify if this site is genuine in its claims as I haven't yet bought my X220 but hopefully it will allow other owners to replicate and post back results here.

 

Throttletest

802.11n
JNavas
Posts: 573
Registered: ‎08-07-2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
0

Re: X220 cpu throttling problem

[ Edited ]

erik wrote:

@JNavas - exactly what application were you running and specifically what were you doing with it?   which power plan was used?   what power settings are you using in the BIOS?

judging purely by CPU-Z it simply looks like your system is jumping from an idle state to a full-power state depending on the demand of your application.   this would be normal.   however, without knowing specifically what you were doing ("heavy compute load"?) it's impossible to accurately discern whether this is normal or problematic.

specificity helps... a lot. :smileywink:

thanks


What part of "normal (not synthetic) heavy compute load on all 4 threads on both cores, but without any significant GPU load" was unclear? :smileywink: But to be clear, that's continuous load, no idle.

 

CPU load when throttling occurs

Hope that helps,
John
ThinkPad T420s [ i7-2640M CPU | 8GB RAM | 1TB SSD | Bay Battery | BT | Webcam | FR | Win7Pro64 ]