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802.11n
JNavas
Posts: 573
Registered: ‎08-07-2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
0

Re: X220 CPU throttling problem

[ Edited ]

bender957 wrote:

JNavas wrote:

 It's a painful irony that I'm getting less graphics performance with the i7 than other customers are getting with the i5!



i5 also affected with this problem not only i7. at least i5-2520.

i5-2520 with higher graphics performance here.

Something else must be causing the difference.

Hope that helps,
John
ThinkPad T420s [ i7-2640M CPU | 8GB RAM | 1TB SSD | Bay Battery | BT | Webcam | FR | Win7Pro64 ]
Punch Card
MaBa
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎06-27-2011
Location: Germany
0

Re: X220 CPU throttling problem

[ Edited ]

Easily explainable: Randomness of down-throtteling combined with maybe different dirvers/BIOS/energy manager versions. The difference between the i5 and i7 is already marginal at best. The only reason to get the i7 is the USB 3.0. So even under perfect conditions the i5 and i7 models will give you the same number or .1 higher for the i7 in the WEI. Real performance differs by 3-7% depending on the application. 

You have for example a far larger influence on the score (and real-world performance) when you use the newest Intel drivers for the graphics unit than the difference between the i5 and i7.

 

Obviously you can get rid of the throtteling argument by using a 90W adapter, where you should see the same WEI numbers for the i7 and i5-25xx, a bit lower for the i5-2410 and a tad more lower for the i3 models.

802.11n
JNavas
Posts: 573
Registered: ‎08-07-2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
0

Re: X220 CPU throttling problem

[ Edited ]

MaBa wrote:

Easily explainable: Randomness of down-throtteling combined with maybe different dirvers/BIOS/energy manager versions. ...


  1. The difference is consistent in repeated trials, not random.
  2. I'm using the latest versions of BIOS, drivers, and Power Manager.
  3. I'd be satisfied if the i7 was as good as the i5. I'm not satisfied that it's consistently slower.
  4. The X220 should be able to deliver full performance on the standard adapter (unless otherwise specified).
    The obvious problem is the 65W adapter. What Lenovo needs is a somewhat more powerful (72W-75W)
    small and light standard adapter.
Hope that helps,
John
ThinkPad T420s [ i7-2640M CPU | 8GB RAM | 1TB SSD | Bay Battery | BT | Webcam | FR | Win7Pro64 ]
Serial Port
bender957
Posts: 47
Registered: ‎07-21-2011
Location: Russia
0

Re: X220 CPU throttling problem

 

btw, new machines selling already with 1.20 bios

 

but it still not available for download

Lenovo Staff
someotherguy
Posts: 2,567
Registered: ‎10-29-2009
Location: NC
0

Re: X220 CPU throttling problem

Bender957,

 

The 1.20 BIOS only fixes a manufacturing process thing.  It has nothing to do with this throttling issue.  It is not uncommon to release a new BIOS only for manufacturing purposes and not for download on the support site.

 

The throttling issue is addressed by a new EC version (1.09) which is still undergoing internal testing and not available for download yet.

Punch Card
MaBa
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎06-27-2011
Location: Germany

Re: X220 CPU throttling problem

[ Edited ]

Ok, JNavas.......

 

1. It IS random. That your result seem to be consistent in repeated trials does not mean they are. Using the 65W adapter I got results ranging between 4.5 and 5.9 for different runs.

 

2. Looking at your recent posts, in particular regarding the Intel graphics drivers I am 100% sure, that you are NOT using the latest drivers. You may be using the latest drivers released by Lenovo, but what you already a few weeks ago did not understand is that those drivers Lenovo offers are from April, the latest Intel drivers are from August (and already where at the time when you stated they where a mere month newer. This was explained to you many times, but throughout this forum you have already shown, that you are hard to convince when someones opinion differs from yours). The Intel drivers in nearly all applications offer a boost between 20 and 60%. Just for your information, my WEI score is 6.4 for both graphics categories.

 

3. It is. Reread this thread.

 

4. Just when someone says that a 500hp car should be able to deliver its full power by only using up 1l of fuel per 100 km does not mean that this will work. In no point in time will the 65W adapter be powerful enough to deliver the full performance of the X220 regardless if its an i7 or i5. Lenovo currently is working on a solution which lowers overall performance to stay in the 65W range. So, I agree that the most elegant and by far easiest solution would be exchanging the 65W adapter for a 90W one.

 

And for the future: Before you answer to other posts stating that other people are wrong.... try to understand what those people are saying (referring to the intel drivers, i5/i7 performance, your "proof" that you have no throtteling (which by the way was completely wrong, which you were also explained, but didn't believe, etc. etc. etc.)

 

Best regards

What's DOS?
harp
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎08-18-2011
Location: here!
0

Re: X220 CPU throttling problem


MaBa wrote:Lenovo currently is working on a solution which lowers overall performance to stay in the 65W range. So, I agree that the most elegant and by far easiest solution would be exchanging the 65W adapter for a 90W one.


So, why das The Tx20 Series just work perfect with the 65W Adapters?

Serial Port
bender957
Posts: 47
Registered: ‎07-21-2011
Location: Russia
0

Re: X220 CPU throttling problem


harp wrote:


So, why das The Tx20 Series just work perfect with the 65W Adapters?



x220 also work perfect with 65W Adapters on lower configurations like i5-2410.

 

what exactly Tx20 machine you talking about?

What's DOS?
harp
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎08-18-2011
Location: here!
0

Re: X220 CPU throttling problem


what exactly Tx20 machine you talking about?



The T520 and T420 do not throttle with 65W.

And not just with 2410 also with 2520 i have nothing heard about throttle!

802.11n
JNavas
Posts: 573
Registered: ‎08-07-2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
0

Re: X220 CPU throttling problem

[ Edited ]

MaBa,


1. It is consistent (not random) here. If it is random there, then you may wish to look for system problems. (Links to definitions provided for your reference.)

 

2. What's relevant in this context are the current drivers from Lenovo (current by Windows Update as well), which I am using.

 

3. My i7 system has less WEI graphics performance than comparable i5 systems as reported here.

 

4. Your analogy is fatally flawed. Either the standard adapter should support full performance or Lenovo should disclose that it doesn't and offer a proper alternative when purchasing. Anything else (e.g., undisclosed throttling) is deceptive and misleading, and it shouldn't be necessary to purchase an additional adapter to get full performance, either the much larger and heavier 90W adapter or the much more expensive 90W slim combo adapter. Lenovo should provide a somewhat more powerful (72W-75W) but still small and light alternative to the inadequate 65W adapter.

 

5. What I'm posting is correct. Let's take a look at your record:


MaBa wrote:

... The difference between the i5 and i7 is already marginal at best. The only reason to get the i7 is the USB 3.0. So even under perfect conditions the i5 and i7 models will give you the same number or .1 higher for the i7 in the WEI. Real performance differs by 3-7% depending on the application. ...


Cinebench R10: Rendering Multiple CPUs 64Bit (avg) from notebookcheck.net:

     Intel Core i5 2410M:   9489.5

     Intel Core i7 2620M: 11274.5

That's a difference of 19%, not only "real" but meaningful -- I do rendering quite often -- it's why I got the i7. :smileywink:

Hope that helps,
John
ThinkPad T420s [ i7-2640M CPU | 8GB RAM | 1TB SSD | Bay Battery | BT | Webcam | FR | Win7Pro64 ]