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ibmthink
Posts: 411
Registered: ‎10-21-2011
Location: Germany / Deutschland
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Re: X230 picture

[ Edited ]

@pertierr,

"I also use several Edge E520's and the chiclet keyboard is not even in the same galaxy, and the layout SUCKS. Just making the ESC and DEL keys the size of an ant is a gallactically stupid move, let alone the rest of it."

The ESC and the DEL key will be larger on the new layout than the Edge keyboard, you can see it here on the X1: 


Link to picture

 

 And that is not the final layout for the new ThinkPads.

 

"I predict this keyboard thing will be like New Coke and they'll have to go back to Classic."

I don´t think so. The new generation will sell very well IMHO. 

 

Moderator note; picture(s) totalling >50K converted to link(s) Forum Rules

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pertierr
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎04-20-2012
Location: USA
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Re: X230 picture

I appreciate that the keyboard on the X1 is the best chiclet keyboard out there.  That doesn't mean it's better than the true Thinkpad keyboard.

 

I'm still asking, what was wrong with it?  What are they fixing?  How come this keyboard worked great for many years of IBM and Lenovo machines, but now it is being discarded?  I think there has to be a very good reason to do such a change, and I haven't heard any valid argument for it's superiority nor have I seen evidence of it from my using of other chiclet keyboards on numerous machines.

 

That's not even considering the fact that, regardless of subjective factors, nobody can deny that the Thinkpad keyboard was -UNIQUE-, and gave the few Thinkpad models that carried it a unique selling point compared to every other laptop out there (even Dell Precision machines have chiclet now).

 

I would understand if the target professional users for these machines were clamoring for a chiclet keyboard because they all hate the classic Thinkpad keyboard.   I don't see how this is true. Of course the other reason for this change would be that Thinkpad is not truly targetted at professionals anymore and they are aiming for mass sales to consumers who want an Apple-like experience.  Nothing wrong with making money, but if at least offer it as an option.

 

But in the end we'll just wait and see, you may very well be right!

billbolton
Posts: 1,839
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Re: X230 picture

[ Edited ]

pertierr wrote:

 

I would understand if the target professional users for these machines were clamoring for a chiclet keyboard because they all hate the classic Thinkpad keyboard.


 

From my experience, target professional users on the whole don't care that much at all about what type of keyboard is on their systems.  Other design aspects, especially size/weight/battery duration, are the critical factors.

 

Cheers,

 

Bill

------------------------------
I don't work for Lenovo
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JWTS
Posts: 18
Registered: ‎04-26-2012
Location: WA
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Re: X230 picture


pertierr wrote:

I'm still asking, what was wrong with it?  What are they fixing?  How come this keyboard worked great for many years of IBM and Lenovo machines, but now it is being discarded?  I think there has to be a very good reason to do such a change, and I haven't heard any valid argument for it's superiority nor have I seen evidence of it from my using of other chiclet keyboards on numerous machines.

 


 



Well, here are my thoughts on your question above: All laptops are a compromise to a certain extend, and one of the big restrictions is space (if you don't believe this, look at the size of the dedicated USB Thinkpad keyboard!). As far as the 7th row, I'm personally glad it's gone, because it opens up more room on the laptop, particularly for notebooks 14" and smaller.  The palm rests can be larger and the available real estate for the touchpad is larger.  I realize that it's heresy to mention the touchpad, but with the "two finger scroll" download which actually makes the touchpad useful, I find that I use the touchpad a lot--and I'm a long-time trackpoint user.  The extra space on the palm rests and touchpad is of benefit to me every time I tough the keyboard, where as the "system req" key is something that may get used one a year.  The only drawbacks for me are the lack of dedicated page forward and back, but that's a trade-off with which I can live.

 

Secondly, the chiclet design seems to allow for larger key tops.  I don't know exactly how the keys are shaped differently, either from the original TP or other chichlet keys--the surface area seems a little larger.  Regardless, for me it's a better typing experience.  I'm faster and more accurate on this keyboard than my TP keyboard. It's as close to a Model M in terms of feel (and noise!) as I've ever experienced in a laptop keyboard.

 

Lastly, for me a backlit keyboard is far preferable to the thinklight. I rarely need to look at the keyboard, but when I do it's to look at the top row--which my thinklight doesn't illuminate without moving the screen. The thinklight never threw enough light to be useful for me besides viewing parts of the keyboard I didn't need to see.

 

These are my thoughts after spending a week typing on an Edge E420 keyboard, and after using "conventional" TP keyboards for >15 years. Unfortunately, I've had a myriad of problems with the computer, so I ended up swapping it for an X220.  I couldn't wait for the X230 and I really need the IPS screen (I forgot how horrible the viewing angles are on non-IPS screens) , so I'm taking what is in my view a step backwards on the keyboard.  I have full intentions of upgrading to the new X230 when the right deal comes along. 

 

I don't know what the motivation is for Lenovo; I'm sure aesthetics and consumer preferences played a part. But for me, I favor the new keyboard (assuming it's like a backlit version of the E420 keyboard) simply because it's more functional in my eyes.  $.02.

jiv
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jiv
Posts: 314
Registered: ‎07-29-2011
Location: Singapore
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Re: X230 picture

[ Edited ]

Lenovo already has the ThinkPad Edge series (and the IdeaPad series as well)to break away from the traditional ThinkPad designs. There's no reason why they should be tinkering around with a 20+ year old tradition.

 

The most important rule of engineering is "If it's not broken, don't fix it."

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pertierr
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎04-20-2012
Location: USA
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Re: X230 picture

The EDGE keyboard is close to the IBM Model M keyboard???  Very very wholeheartedly and respectfully disagree, and I have 7 of these machines.

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danrl
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎01-27-2012
Location: Germany
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Re: X230 picture

How about sticking to your design at the upcoming x230 series as well? It might be the last chance to win back already disappointed customers, there is already so mich screwed up in the X-series, e.g. resolution was once 1440x900. What will the next step back be?

 

Don't get me started on the keyboard, it is unusable. I need all the keys were they belong, I regularly use Ins, Del, PgUp, PgDn, Home, End, PrintScreen etc. A six row layout is not acceptable at all. Those wo do? Srsly? Don't you already have the Edge- and IdeaPad-series to mess around with?

 

I am so hoping that this pic is a fake, I hate looking for other vendors. I bought almost every model of the x-series, but this *** at the photo will never make it.

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JWTS
Posts: 18
Registered: ‎04-26-2012
Location: WA
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Re: X230 picture

 


pertierr wrote:

The EDGE keyboard is close to the IBM Model M keyboard???  Very very wholeheartedly and respectfully disagree, and I have 7 of these machines.


 

as compared to any other laptop keyboard, those are my thoughts as far as the tactile feedback of the E420 keyboard.  It's certainly closer in feel than the keyboard on my T61. I should mention that it feels significantly different than an older Edge keyboard that I tried out, which seemed to have less travel. Bottom line, I prefer the feel of the new keyboard over the old one, and I like the layout better. I certainly realize this is a matter of personal opinion, but I'd suggest to folks readining that this is the end of the world to keep an open mind and try the keyboard. I know the layout is the deal breaker for some. For me, I'd rather have the extra space. 


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Alexo
Posts: 98
Registered: ‎06-19-2011
Location: Canada
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Re: X230 picture

It sure looks like Lenovo is trying to cust costs and provide inferior systems for premium Thinkpad prices gambling on brand recognition and lack of competition.

 

It will be interesting to see how the X230 does against the upcoming Asus Zenbook Prime (UX31A and UX21A) with their 1080p matte IPS screens.

 

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zoowalk0815
Posts: 15
Registered: ‎12-07-2008
Location: Austria
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Re: X230 picture

I have a question regarding the return/line-break key. At times the key seems to go over two rows (link at the pic you linked), sometimes it has only the hight of one row (like on the x230 related picture). Does anybody know on what this depends? Is this a regional specifiety? I personally strongly prefer the larger return key. thx