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timenetworks
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎04-22-2012
Location: HK
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Re: X230 picture

[ Edited ]

Sorry to mention that X230 will not provide more space. (as can be seen from picture, we can measure it later)

Some of my friends bought the edge series and I can say that the typing experience was not bad, however, I still prefer the traditional one.

Actually, the typing experience of ThinkPad worse generation by generation.

As having chances to try each X series starting from X41
I prefer X41 and X61 (especially the one manufacture by NMB)

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ThinkPad x61 with AFFS 1400*1050 panel (certified dead)
The Ultimate Machine so far
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pertierr
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎04-20-2012
Location: USA
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Re: X230 picture

I'm sorry, but I am not a 'thinkpad traditionalist', that's a cop-out.  My main laptops used to be MacBook Pro's until about 1.5 years ago, when I needed a more powerful Windows computing machine that was cuda capable, essentially a desktop replacement.  There were many options(Dell, HP, etc, etc), but I picked Thinkpad because of the keyboard.

 

Across the projects I work on I now have over 15 Thinkpads, of all models.  Some of those are Edge models with chiclet keyboards which were purchased bulk because they were cheap, and I made the mistake of assuming that Thinkpad meant I would get a good Thinkpad keyboard.  If I had to do it over, I would have opted for Y560p's with the pre-chiclet keyboard.  I have used the chiclet extensively.  It sucks.  Even though it's better than any other chiclet out there.

 

When I'm on a desktop, I have a good desktop keyboard.  When i'm on the road, the classic Thinkpad keyboard is the best there is, period.

 

As for the size argument, my W520 has tons of space, why change that?  On a smal machine X220, you will ALWAYS be cramped for space.  That is the sacrifice one makes when going to a tiny 12.5" notebook.  A few millimeters will not make my hands fit on the X220 palmrest, and is a crappy excuse for removing the signature feature that works perfectly.

 

Nobody will buy an X230 vs another machine because they can get a few millimeters of palmrest space.  Consumers will, however, buy it because it now looks more like a Mac and everything else out there that's trendy.

 

Both IBM and Lenovo have decades of combined research on keyboards.  This is why we have the classic Thinkpad keyboard.  Everybody knows that they touted changes like the enlarged ESC and DEL keys.

 

But now, the argument appears to be: just forget about all those years of us telling you this keyboard is the pinnacle of all our research and is the best out there, and let's change to something completely different that JUST HAPPENS to look like the market trends.  What a coincidence.

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ibmthink
Posts: 419
Registered: ‎10-21-2011
Location: Germany / Deutschland
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Re: X230 picture

@pertierr,

"But now, the argument appears to be: just forget about all those years of us telling you this keyboard is the pinnacle of all our research and is the best out there, and let's change to something completely different that JUST HAPPENS to look like the market trends."

No, their argument is: They think that the X1 Chiclet-keyboard is superior over the old  keyboard in terms of typing-experience (I think so too, X1 is better than my R50e keyboard). So they will continue to say: "The worlds best keyboard" :smileywink:

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pertierr
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎04-20-2012
Location: USA
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Re: X230 picture

:smileyhappy:

 

So, decades of research into keyboard designs and layouts has:

1. Suddenly taken a drastic turn in both mechanical design and layout i.e. Lenovo had some epiphany that their previous decades of research have not revealed!

2. The new epiphany happens to look exactly like what Apple and the rest of the market is doing.

 

Statistically unlikely.

ajkula66
Posts: 7,628
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Registered: ‎11-23-2007
Location: USA

Re: X230 picture


JWTS wrote:

As far as the traditional keyboard being the default keyboard, my guess is that the majority of users will prefer the new keyboard. I just don't think the TP traditionalists flooding message boards to complain about the keyboard are indicitive of the typical user. I guess time will tell.

 


Well, you'd have to define both terms that were used here: "ThinkPad traditionalist" and "typical user".

 

If by the former you mean people who had learned to type on mechanical typewriters and then switched to Selectric to be followed by Model M - yeah, most of these folks will bark at the new layout, myself included. And trust me, we will be loud. Not that it will make a difference in the end result. The war is already lost for us.

 

If a "typical user" is the one who'd like something cooler than a Mac...I'm sorry, that's not a game that anyone can win - including Lenovo - for the simple fact that one doesn't redesign a product that was considered a classic to begin with in a manner that emulates its polar opposite...

 

For me personally, this is deja vu...I watched Ford destroy the Jaguar brand almost thirty years ago. By making it more like other cars. Other Fords. Not that there's anything wrong with a Ford per se. But if you try to to turn a Jaguar into Ford in order for it to sell it to the masses, you'll end up both losing money and destroying the brand recognition which is exactly what had happened over the next two decades...

 

Back in those dim dead days I was a Jaguar owner. Not anymore.

 

I voted with my wallet back then and will have no problem doing it again.

 

 

Cheers,

George




In daily use: R60F, R500F, T61, T410

Collecting dust: T60

Enjoying retirement: A31p, T42p,

Non-ThinkPads: Panasonic CF-31 & CF-52, HP 8760W




Starting Thursday, 08/14/2014 I'll be away from the forums until further notice. Please do NOT send private messages since I won't be able to read them. Thank you.
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jiv
802.11n
jiv
Posts: 314
Registered: ‎07-29-2011
Location: Singapore
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Re: X230 picture


ahumeniy wrote:

I'll be waiting for the X240 with glossy mirror-like screen, chasis and lid lights, huge multi-touchpad and TV Tunner...

 

'Cause everyone likes that things on their laptops, am I right? After all, they're entertainment devices.


I hope it will be available in bright, flashy colours as well.

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timenetworks
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎04-22-2012
Location: HK
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Re: X230 picture

[ Edited ]

These days I was wondering

Why don't non traditional ThinkPad user keep buying the EDGE series?

 

The edge series suit their needs!!

Glossy panel + 6row keyboard + large touchpad + island keyboard (not sure about Glossy panel)

 

While traditional ThinkPad user would perfer the traitional one (T & X)

7 row keyboard + mainly trackpoint + traditional keyboard + ThinkLight ....etc (ThinkPad features and I hope UltraConnect will still exist)

 

isn't this the reason why the EDGE series born?

 

These two type of users have different needs and at this moment, the entire ThinkPad serise suit both market!!

So here with the reason that X230 SHOULD keep ThinkPad feature (7row, traditional keyboard, ThinkLight .... etc)

And at the same time

A model in EDGE series which looks like the current X230 picture!!

 

This also shows that what product the market actually want.

===Signature===================================
ThinkPad x61 with AFFS 1400*1050 panel (certified dead)
The Ultimate Machine so far
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timenetworks
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎04-22-2012
Location: HK
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Re: X230 picture

[ Edited ]

Reply to JWTS's post

 

It is hard to tell by time, as if the current X230 design released, the traditional design will lost.

Some users may have no choice and need to buy X230 reluctantly.

This will not reflect the market actual need as ThinkPad is still one of the best in some espect in the industry.

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ThinkPad x61 with AFFS 1400*1050 panel (certified dead)
The Ultimate Machine so far
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airrin
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎05-06-2012
Location: Hong Kong
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Re: X230 picture

I am not and never a traditional thinkpad user. I start using thinkpad about 2 years ago since I need a smaller notebook and the only option I had was x100e. My another notebook was manufactured by Sony(CS series, 2009)

 

I am working with words, so keyboard is usually my main concern. The separated keyboard on x100e is fine. It perform well and I could type comfortably, although it is not as good as that of my another computer. I have tried to use edge series which owned by my friend. Just slightly better than Apple, i think.(I do not really like Apple. Its keyboard is too soft and comes with some "unclear" feeling; and the touchpad really sucks, for me, "finger control" is simply useless and fussy but nth. maybe it's too smart and Im stupid)

 

In my experience in using edge, the touchpad was poorly built, not so easy to use and control. I donot think Lenovo could build a good touchpad shortly.(btw, I think Sony have high quality touchpad, if its surface is a smooth one, like "S" series of Sony) So, I would prefer no touchpad, trackpoint only. There is no point to waste space and install a POOR TOUCHPAD.

 

What's special and good on ThinkPad? One of the answer must be trackpoint, doubtless.

 

I am really glad to see the "pg up"/"pg down" button is improved that that of x100e. But I still think, keyboard could be optional between a "tradtional" one and seperated one will be good.

 

I also agree 16:10 monitor is a good compromise as a 16:9 monitor is too "wide" and 4:3 is not so portable. With the big big "explorer.exe" in Win 7, and wasted lots of spaces in programmes of handling documents(e.g. Libre office. Usually I use "print page view" in order to ensure everything works well and need not to proof-read once more for PDF saving and Printing).

 

16:10 with high resolution is also good for video post-processing. When I am using AVSPMod to write avs, and needed to preview, in a 16:9 monitor(with 1366:768) is really inconvenient and make me so pain.(although using an x100e to do post-processing is already really pain=_='') For me, 1366:768 in 11"/12" is fine and reasonable, but definitely not good enough. 

 

wish lenovo is listening.

 

here's my $0.2.

 

airrin

jiv
802.11n
jiv
Posts: 314
Registered: ‎07-29-2011
Location: Singapore
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Re: X230 picture

[ Edited ]

JWTS wrote:

timenetworks wrote:

6row keyboard do not provide more space at the bottom, as the 7th row share with the power, volum button


 

As far as the traditional keyboard being the default keyboard, my guess is that the majority of users will prefer the new keyboard. I just don't think the TP traditionalists flooding message boards to complain about the keyboard are indicitive of the typical user. I guess time will tell.

 


 

Typical users generally do not buy ThinkPads as they can find better specced notebooks for the same price or less.