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06-07-2010

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Re: Bootloader Solution

2011-04-09, 21:14 PM

AlphaDog wrote:


Anyway, would an unlocked phone be nice? Yes, but put things perspective. It doesn't hurt sales regardless of what these 30 pages of posts say. Most users don't care and wouldn't know what to do with it anyway.

This is only true in the short term. You are saying that most users do not care. So, there shouldnt have been any reason to encrypt bootloaders at first place. Since even without unencrypted boot loader, one has to unlock it etc. before installing 3rd party ROMs and since you say that many dont care or wouldnt know anyway so..., what is the point of Motorola doing it?

So, Motorola should be gaining something in the end since Motorola spends time encrypting the bootloaders while cant (or perhaps knowingly does not) provide updates for these devices. Tthe most popular guess afaik is that they plan to eol the phones quicker by not providing updates, and force customers to buy newer models) then the customer is loosing something and obviously it is true since they refuse to provide updates for so many models.

In my opinion, what you are saying depends on the assumption that customers are stupid enough to fall for this trick over and over again. But in reality this caused a lot of bad publicity for example on the internet, what do you think will happen to Motorola owners when their friends and colegues receive updates to their phones which are from other manufacturers or perhaps install 3rd party roms and do other fancy stuff, while the owners of Motorola devices will be forced to use old software?

This is not an assumption anymore, since Motorola did not provide software updates to many of their very capabile devices even flagship phones such as Milestone in many regions. So many of Motorola models are not even getting 2.2 upgrade:

https://supportforums.motorola.com/community/manager/softwareupgrades

The result is that people start talking about these issues online, such as in this forum thread, and perhaps hundreds, if not thousands of people will read this thread and think twice before buying Motorola. Sure, you might say 1 thread, but internet is crawling with this sort of bad publicity about Motorola. So thousand threads x thousand readers = already makes a million people reconsidering purchase... (I accept, it is an assumption on my part... ) So, how can this not effect sales really?

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44 Posts

03-02-2011

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Re: Bootloader Solution

2011-04-10, 1:59 AM

Hi AlphaDog,

Your avatar details list you as a MOTO XPRT, does that mean you are speaking on behalf of Motorola or is that a title given to community members who render support in this forum?

You can think it's not going to influence sales for this device by Motorola refusing to even acknowledge this community, but if you look at the support this is gaining and the barrage that Motorola is receiving on their Facebook and Twitter streams, this is clearly bad for business. Viral and social networking marketing are becoming the more convincing forms of advertising in this day and age. Early adopters (Advanced Users) are key to word of mouth recommendations for the Atrix and if they're not satisfied due to the lockdown nature, then that can have a huge impact on non-technical people buying the phone. Then if you say that it's only for nerds, then what about Motorola's facebook page. That is certainly getting a lot of negativity on it that would influence people who don't even get the difference between Android and MotoBlur.

Turning you back on 8,000 sales might seem small, but is still sales. It's narrow minded to not want to reel in every customer you can.

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213 Posts

03-13-2011

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Re: Bootloader Solution

2011-04-10, 3:31 AM

AlphaDog wrote:

Regarding Amazon pricing and what it means:

For those that don't know how the cell phone biz works; independent agents, those that sell other carriers phones such as Amazon, Wirefly, Bob's cell phones, Costco (someone else in Costco stores), etc. They can set whatever price they want on a mobile phone because they make their money on signing up new users.

Carriers pay Amazon, Wirefly, etc. big bucks for new contracts. Amazon can lose money on the phone, they make a few hundred on every new or renewing contract. Amazon discounts everything - I don't think they do that because the products are bad, it is because they want the lowest prices and they want you to buy from them.

If you buy the phone with no service, they want $599. If the phones were being discounted then this too would be $150 off. But since AT&T is not going to pay them for selling a phone with no service, they make their 20%-30% on the phone sale. Otherwise they are getting about $600 per new user from AT&T. Amazon probably pays between $300 and $400 per phone. They sell it for $50 (or nothing) but they get their fee from AT&T. No one loses.

Anyway, would an unlocked phone be nice? Yes, but put things perspective. It doesn't hurt sales regardless of what these 30 pages of posts say. Most users don't care and wouldn't know what to do with it anyway.

Having worked for a 3rd party seller you are correct  to a  point.  Any extra they can squeeze out though is free money for  them.   So if it sells well they will charge more and make extra cash.   In  other words they droped the price in hopes of moving an item they can   not move otherwise to make their comission. If sales were healthy at   150, they would continue to charge that. 

Most people who  drive a car will never replace the  stock radio, or put high  performance spark plugs in them.  Yet there is  still a huge market for  them for those who do.  Most people do not buy  ODB2 Diagnostic code  readers for their cars, but yet manufactures still  make them to sell to  the public. 

These 30 pages are just a sub set of users that actually take the time out to say something. 

Things   like this don't hurt sales till people learn, and yes they will  learn.   Android itself did not hurt sales the iphone, till it got  better and  people learned about it.  Now as they learn it is getting  just as closed  off as the iphone is, well...

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484 Posts

12-12-2009

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Re: Bootloader Solution

2011-04-10, 12:29 PM

ram130 wrote:

Ok guys I understand your frustration but stop threatening Motorola. They are a big corporation and the fact is that only a minority is complaining but the issue. So they can always ignore us and continue. We should be asking nicely really. Just because you feel you have been with a brand for years doesn't mean when you leave they will get hurt. Think about this; How many customers/users are buying their products again? and how many are complaining now?

Just be a lil more welcoming, we are basically asking them a favor here.

-Ram

Favor?  No, not really. Man they got you trained. Keep in mind, the X (the  first US high end device from them to have the encrypted bootloader) was  released less than a year ago, on a customary 2 year contract. Meaning  those customers, for the most part, are still quite a ways from NE2. The  D1 is obsolete now because of storage and processor limitations. But it  hit all the right spots to reinvigorate Moto as a player.

The  DX is the true next generation. and it really turned a LOT of people  off. While many don't care about the bootloader, many more do. Many of  us will not be back unless the Dev community can get in and work their  magic. Say what you want about Team Douche, they bring what the  community wants to the table. CM had apps2SD up and running long before  Froyo was released. They had the D1 lasting more than 8 hours on a  charge long before Moto did. They had JIT and voicedial working on D1  long before officiall channels gave it to us. So who is doing who the  favor? FTR, I STILL can't run CM on my X. Now that I have GB, I like my  X, but not enough to get suckered into another locked bootloader.

Since  I only got my X a few months ago, they won't feel my absence for a  while yet. But my household alone has 4 lines. All currently Moto. This  will change because of this one policy.Add in my extended family, Moto  stands to lose almost 15 repeat customers within the next few quarters.

I  couldn't begin to speculate on how many sales are driven by the  recommendations of @koush and @cyanogen, but I am quite confident retail  adds up to more than I will earn this year. And those are just a couple  of the bigger names in the Dev community. At this point, the entire Dev  community is hostile towards Motos approach. This will start to become  evident by Q1 next year, unless Moto embraces the Dev community. Like  their phones, their newfound success will enjoy an early EOL.

At least, that's how I see it.

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180 Posts

03-24-2011

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Re: Bootloader Solution

2011-04-10, 13:41 PM

You SERIOUSLY think that the opinion of XDA developers measures even a tenth of a percent for the phones???

Are you completely out of touch with reality?

How many active users are there on XDA??? much less users active in JUST the motorola portion??

I'm 100 percent behind opening up the bootloader, and if XDA doesn't develop for this phone I'll be super disappointed and pissed, but even if ALL the users on XDA were planning on buying an Atrix and didn't it won't matter for peanuts to Motorola.

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2 Posts

04-09-2011

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Re: Bootloader Solution

2011-04-10, 13:49 PM

I am pretty sure that if a few million people were planning to buy the atrix, moto would give more than peanuts. I would be quite surprised to hear that even 1 million people have bought it so far.

I can see your point but try to be a little more realistic when trying to make it.

- Caid.

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248 Posts

06-07-2010

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Re: Bootloader Solution

2011-04-10, 13:55 PM

I was just wondering, if the minority is complaining about this specific issue. Exactly what is the issue which is complained most?

This is one of the most discussed subjects about Motorola's android products (afaik), not only in this sort of threads, also in online media. (and also the easiest to fix).

If Motorola is dismissing the issue thinking that complaints are coming from a minority no wonder why they are so sloppy at providing updates/bugfixes since nothing would be large scale enough to fix in their opinion.

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213 Posts

03-13-2011

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Re: Bootloader Solution

2011-04-10, 14:17 PM

Opinions of XDA may amount to a hill a beans...

When someone googles, Motorola Atrix problems or reviews to help them make the decision and they see people ranting they can't do what they want to do with their devices... then they ask their tech savvy friend what they think... 

If this was not such an issue then why has companies like Sony actually listened? 

Sony was not going to update the Xperia X10 past it's current operating system... but now suddendly, and after a lot of backlash they are going to update it to Gingerbread. 

Sony was going to have locked bootloaders, after backlash, they came up with what is IMHO a reasonable solution to this, basically saying Do it, void your warrenty, and register your IMEI number with us so we know you voided your warrenty. 

Motorola even stated themselves they are going to come out with a bootloader solution after backlash for their (which is now apparently painfully true statement) that if you are dev look else where. 

Basically then it begs the question, if it is not such a big deal, and no one wants to load a custom ROM, then why lock them in the first place?

Are we not promised a computer that's a phone or a phone that's a computer in the ads such as the one here


That is either false advertising, or a promise I can do what I want with my phone just like a computer, and a computer can have whatever compatiable operating system on it I so choose.

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50 Posts

01-23-2010

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Re: Bootloader Solution

2011-04-10, 14:23 PM

Are you kidding me there is so much fervor about this on all of the tech

sights. There is a huge ATT and MOTO fail page on facebook. And like Caid

said all you have to do is google the phone and It will tell you why it is a

big FAIL. So much negative press around this phone and company. This is

one of the stupidest things a company in there position could have done.

On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 10:17 AM, mostlyharmlessnj <

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248 Posts

06-07-2010

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Re: Bootloader Solution

2011-04-10, 14:34 PM

mostlyharmlessnj wrote:

That is either false advertising, or a promise I can do what I want with my phone just like a computer, and a computer can have whatever compatiable operating system on it I so choose.

For now yes, if this sort of brute-force approach of locking users out of their devices succeed, I wonder what would stop the computer manufacturers from locking you to a specific version of Windows only...

sdlopez83 wrote:

Are you kidding me there is so much fervor about this on all of the tech

sights.  There is a huge ATT and MOTO fail page on facebook.  And like Caid

said all you have to do is google the phone and It will tell you why it is a

big FAIL.  So much negative press around this phone and company.  This is

one of the stupidest things a company in there position could have done.

Actually, there are several Motorola fail pages,groups etc. at least on Facebook that you get confused which one to sign up for

If I start writing Moto on facebook search, I get 'Motorola Europe', 'I will never buy a Motorola device again', 'Motorola', 'Never Motorola' in Pages section and in groups I see 'Motofail'. I see no such things if I search HTC, Samsung, LG etc.

I guess Motorola itself is sort of safe since they severed the Motorola Mobility from the Motorola itself, so if it dies (and perhaps they are guessing that it will and that is why they divided the company?) Motorola will not go down with it.

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