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01-23-2010

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Re: Bootloader Solution

2011-04-15, 21:51 PM

Off topic but aren't we getting hsupa tomorrow april 16 th?

On Apr 15, 2011 5:39 PM, "sharkonwheels" <

Lenovo IdeaPad Y550P(324156U)
Intel Core i7 720QM(1.60GHz)
4GB Memory DDR3 1066
500GB HDD 5400rpm
NVIDIA GeForce GT 240M
Windows 7 Professional
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44 Posts

03-21-2011

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Re: Bootloader Solution

2011-04-15, 22:34 PM
eallan wrote:

lorimer wrote:

Watching this thread, there are either sleeper motorola agents, or some people I would _LOVE_ to watch shop for a car.

"Ooooohh..  You are asking $32,000 for that one?!?  I _REALLY_ want it.  If I give you $45,000 and send you on a trip to the bahamas, will you _PLEASE_ sell it to me?  Pretty please?"

No Kidding!

I've never understood the ridiculous stockholm syndrome approach some people take. They're massive apologists for an idiotic policy of a company that just doesn't get it.

I'm so relieved to hear others say this.... honestly thought I was the only one. *phew*

mostlyharmlessnj wrote:

I guess since I agree with giving up your warranty to allow us to load whatever OS I want, I would qualify as one of those sleeper motorola agents.

I agree that if we load JUST a STOCK Android then that should not invalidate the warranty.

However, the moment you start customizing anything that has to do with the standard behavior of the hardware on a non 100% stock android, then that is where I tend to agree with the idea of giving up with your warranty.  I do not like it, but it is reality.

So basically, what you're saying is that though a device could be so poorly designed and implemented, and so unstable that it can't handle anything other than either an empty OS or a specially-crafted build, you'd still buy it?

Motorola, take note... we've found your market.

This raging debate proves two things:

1. The topic is alive and well and not going away.

2. Some people are happy with the Atrix as is. Having said that, some people are NOT happy with the Atrix as is, and these are the people Moto should be trying to appease. So snap to it, Moto - week nine, someone said? Two months into the lifecycle of a phone with a designated lifespan of 18-24 months? Stop dragging your feet and make an announcement.

Forum Mark, are you around? Any news?

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260 Posts

06-07-2010

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Re: Bootloader Solution

2011-04-15, 23:02 PM

sharkonwheels wrote:


Still not right.

I have a 2009 Chevy Cobalt SS, with the ECOTEC 2.0L intercooled turbo, 260hp/260ft-lbs engine.

Got a GM Stage I kit installed, new ECU flash, 290hp 325ft-lbs torque, and KEEP my 5-year / 100,000 mile powertrain warranty, and 3 year/36,000 mile bumper-to-bumper.

Ford has similar for the mustangs, Dodge similar for the Challenger/Charger/SRT-4.

So, in essence, I flashed my ECU, and retained full warranty.

Don't see what any of this has to do with cars, but whatever.

Yes, but isnt it so that if you install those things yourself, you would have voided the warranty? and if you bricked your ECU while re-flashing, it wouldnt be covered under warranty either?

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302 Posts

02-25-2011

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  • Message 584 of 924

Re: Bootloader Solution

2011-04-15, 23:07 PM

yurtesen wrote:

sharkonwheels wrote:


Still not right.

I have a 2009 Chevy Cobalt SS, with the ECOTEC 2.0L intercooled turbo, 260hp/260ft-lbs engine.

Got a GM Stage I kit installed, new ECU flash, 290hp 325ft-lbs torque, and KEEP my 5-year / 100,000 mile powertrain warranty, and 3 year/36,000 mile bumper-to-bumper.

Ford has similar for the mustangs, Dodge similar for the Challenger/Charger/SRT-4.

So, in essence, I flashed my ECU, and retained full warranty.

Don't see what any of this has to do with cars, but whatever.

Yes, but isnt it so that if you install those things yourself, you would have voided the warranty? and if you bricked your ECU while re-flashing, it wouldnt be covered under warranty either?

I'm convinced you're on the payroll.

A chip on my car or an exhaust doesn't make my warranty go out when the windshield wipers go out.

This is a silly argument and I'm through having it with you. I'm glad you're happy with the phone. A lot of us aren't.

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221 Posts

03-13-2011

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  • Message 585 of 924

Re: Bootloader Solution

2011-04-15, 23:10 PM

Actually you are not 100% correct here.

You decide to Chip your car's computer, it invalidates the warranty on your car's computer AND any damage to your engine that may be a result of it. 

You cook on your stove and grease catches fire burning down your house, the house is not replaced under warranty <-- Insurance works great here!

You run your CPU without proper cooling at 100% you invalidate the warrenty of your processor, and motherboard when it fries it, nor is it replaced under many manufacturers warranty if it gets struck by lightning. (Countless power strips and UPSs come with their own insurance they proudly display that if things blow up because of that the power strip company will reinburse you)

Yes it is advertised as a computer that's a phone, it's a phone that's a computer, which is one of the arguements I love in favor of giving the ability to load a custom rom. 

How I see there being a MAJOR difference here, you blow up one part of something, you replace just the damaged part.  These phones right now in order to get them smaller and thiner, you end up having to replace the entire thing.  We are not dealing with modular hardware, and not everything is a nice little package...

Still not right.

I have a 2009 Chevy Cobalt SS, with the ECOTEC 2.0L intercooled turbo, 260hp/260ft-lbs engine.

Got a GM Stage I kit installed, new ECU flash, 290hp 325ft-lbs torque, and KEEP my 5-year / 100,000 mile powertrain warranty, and 3 year/36,000 mile bumper-to-bumper.

Ford has similar for the mustangs, Dodge similar for the Challenger/Charger/SRT-4.

So, in essence, I flashed my ECU, and retained full warranty.

Don't see what any of this has to do with cars, but whatever.

Bottom line, if you're going to run ads on freaking TV that say it's a computer, then you better be willing to back it up. I'm sure you've all by now seen the Atrix TV ad where the dude is dealing with airline security, supposedly...

Can you imagine buying a laptop, and your warranty gets voided because you switched from Windows 7 Home Premium, to Windows 7 Ultimate? Or to Linux?

Or how about having the BIOS locked so you couldn't switch from Windows to Linux?

What you just said here actually back ups exactly what the phone makers are saying that are locking down their phones.  Someone compared installing a different ROM on your phone voiding your warranty to cars.

You Kept your warranty because you used a GM module in a GM car, A Ford Mod in a Ford Car, and a Dodge in a Dodge Car.  Using a module made by someone other then your manufacturer invalidates your warranty.

To put in the same perspective, it would, and does void your waranty if you used a chip designed, manufactured, and promoted by Bama purchased from American Muscle in your Ford, GM, or Dodge....

The law which chip makers here love to site is the The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)) which in essence says it does not invalidate the warranty when you use a 3rd part, except for parts which are directly impacted by the 3rd party part. 

All your other examples are exactly why I think I should be allowed to use any OS I want on my device.  And also why I say, they should ship me a CD with the original ROM on it that can be easily flashed back to my phone's original ROM to see if that will unbrick it if it bricks.  I think this would dramatically reduce the warranty claims on bricked phones.

Some parts warranties are actually invalidated by using an unsupported OS, however, a big difference there was computer makers became Linux and Open Source friendly and began supporting Linux and contributed code to the community, and found it to be more profitable for them to not blackball linux users, but embrace them. 

And Yes, I did look and checked the Nessus phone warranty, and YES you do void your warranty using an OS other then official stock android rom's. 

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44 Posts

03-21-2011

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Re: Bootloader Solution

2011-04-15, 23:36 PM

Yes, but isnt it so that if you install those things yourself, you would have voided the warranty? and if you bricked your ECU while re-flashing, it wouldnt be covered under warranty either?

What if it bricks when you flash it because the manufacturer didn't tell you it was locked?

What if you didn't know it was locked and unflashable when you bought it, and you wouldn't have otherwise?

What if the manufacturer strings you along for, say, nine weeks (so far) with the promise of being able to flash the thing yourself but doesn't deliver?

What if you bought the car on the strength of that promise?

What if the car itself is based on an open design where each of these parts is designed to be interchangeable, but the manufacturer decides that you can only use what they're offering you?

What if your car comes with stupid decals and stickers and a ridiculous paintjob which, if you try to remove or change, invalidate the warranty?

What if it comes with a bunch of other unneccesary bits-and-pieces which slow the car down or make it stall or generally interfere with performance, but getting rid of those invalidates the warranty?

What if you could only drive it on certain roads owned by people with whom the manufacturer has signed a deal?

I mean, why would anyone buy a car like that in the first place if they knew what it was like, or knew what to expect from that manufacturer?

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06-07-2010

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  • Message 587 of 924

Re: Bootloader Solution

2011-04-15, 23:39 PM

eallan wrote:

yurtesen wrote:

sharkonwheels wrote:


Still not right.

I have a 2009 Chevy Cobalt SS, with the ECOTEC 2.0L intercooled turbo, 260hp/260ft-lbs engine.

Got a GM Stage I kit installed, new ECU flash, 290hp 325ft-lbs torque, and KEEP my 5-year / 100,000 mile powertrain warranty, and 3 year/36,000 mile bumper-to-bumper.

Ford has similar for the mustangs, Dodge similar for the Challenger/Charger/SRT-4.

So, in essence, I flashed my ECU, and retained full warranty.

Don't see what any of this has to do with cars, but whatever.

Yes, but isnt it so that if you install those things yourself, you would have voided the warranty? and if you bricked your ECU while re-flashing, it wouldnt be covered under warranty either?

I'm convinced you're on the payroll.

A chip on my car or an exhaust doesn't make my warranty go out when the windshield wipers go out.

This is a silly argument and I'm through having it with you. I'm glad you're happy with the phone. A lot of us aren't.

I am not on payrol, just being reasonable. I didnt say that I am happy with Motorola locking bootloaders now, did I?  What I am saying is that if you are modifying your phone to work beyond manufacturer's settings then you should accept loosing the warranty. Is it what you are disagreeing with?

Of course the car example is not a very good example, because the car components work more or less independently and also easy enough to replace independently, that is how car manufacturers can give seperate warranties for seperate components.(when did you hear a phone's screen had 3 years warranty and keypad had 1 year etc.?) Sure enough, one can easily make the connection that re-flashing ECU can not damage wipers, but when your phone's CPU is burned, how will they establish what caused it exactly? and they cant just change the CPU now right? (while they could replace the windscreen wiper engine easily). Besides you cant just plug your car to the USB port of computer and mess with it, you often have to take it to somebody who has at least some knowledge of what he is doing...

In either case, apples and oranges as usual. Perhaps best comparison is to compare with other mobile phone manufacturers. Which one still provides warranty if you flash a 3rd party firmware? If this was such a reasonable thing to do, wouldnt you agree that at least one company would agree to such and advertise this fact for gaining larger customer base?

Until today, loosing warranty if you modify firmware was generally accepted as far as I know... now you wouldnt accept freeing the bootloader unless if warranty stays... Isnt it taking this fight a little bit too far? Please be a litlte bir reasonable?

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02-25-2011

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  • Message 588 of 924

Re: Bootloader Solution

2011-04-15, 23:45 PM

yurtesen wrote:

I am not on payrol, just being reasonable. I didnt say that I am happy with Motorola locking bootloaders now, did I?  What I am saying is that if you are modifying your phone to work beyond manufacturer's settings then you should accept loosing the warranty. Is it what you are disagreeing with?

Of course the car example is not a very good example, because the car components work more or less independently and also easy enough to replace independently, that is how car manufacturers can give seperate warranties for seperate components.(when did you hear a phone's screen had 3 years warranty and keypad had 1 year etc.?) Sure enough, one can easily make the connection that re-flashing ECU can not damage wipers, but when your phone's CPU is burned, how will they establish what caused it exactly? and they cant just change the CPU now right? (while they could replace the windscreen wiper engine easily). Besides you cant just plug your car to the USB port of computer and mess with it, you often have to take it to somebody who has at least some knowledge of what he is doing...

In either case, apples and oranges as usual. Perhaps best comparison is to compare with other mobile phone manufacturers. Which one still provides warranty if you flash a 3rd party firmware? If this was such a reasonable thing to do, wouldnt you agree that at least one company would agree to such and advertise this fact for gaining larger customer base?

Until today, loosing warranty if you modify firmware was generally accepted as far as I know... now you wouldnt accept freeing the bootloader unless if warranty stays... Isnt it taking this fight a little bit too far? Please be a litlte bir reasonable?

HTC replaced my nexus one with an unlocked bootloader because the power button stopped working. Fantastic company, earned my business again, versus moto losing it.

And if it were the case where no one did it, it still doesn't make it right.

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06-07-2010

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Re: Bootloader Solution

2011-04-16, 0:09 AM

eallan wrote:

HTC replaced my nexus one with an unlocked bootloader because the power button stopped working. Fantastic company, earned my business again, versus moto losing it.

And if it were the case where no one did it, it still doesn't make it right.

It doesnt make it wrong either, even if somebody did it, it still wouldnt make it right or wrong.

Perhaps, neither way is completely right or wrong. That is why it makes sense to settle somewhere in between.

Simple fact is that you dont loose anything you had before if they unlock the bootloader in exchange for voiding your warranty. The thing is that they will be able to detect with certainty who actually was doing that. People who were voiding the warranty but taking advantage of the difficulty of detection are the only ones who loose soemthing. Perhaps that is why "some" people are so worried of this sort of system.

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Re: Bootloader Solution

2011-04-16, 16:39 PM

What an amazing bunch of losers Motorola turned out to be. They never intended to announce their so called "solution". They just tried to buy themselves time hoping people would forget . I'm glad the Xoom and Atrix are collassel failures and I'm glad the Bionic is cancelled due to being a locked down --implied profanity removed--. That's what you get for being lying douchebags Motorola. Hopefully by this time next year Motorola will be out of business and their loser security team will be in the unemployement line where they belong. Never again will I buy a product from Motorola or any company that's dishonest and shady to the degree Motorola is. This isn't going away either I'm gonna make you --profanity removed-- losers wish you never sold the piece of junk called Atrix. I'm gonna drag your pathetic name threw the mud for  as much and as long as I can you ignorant losers. I'm tired of waiting for a stupid solution that will never come Motorola --unnecessary comment removed--.

--Profanity removed and other suggestive comments removed. Please see the on posting appropriately.

Message was edited by: Mark (Forums Manager)

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