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phositadc1
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Registered: ‎09-26-2012
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Message 11 of 31

Re: 4G to 3G and back...



jntdroid said:


HTC figured something out with regard to handling the 3G / 4G handoff on eHRPD - and at worst they allow you to "disable" the use of eHRPD and use normal evdo, unlike any other device out there.  So I know HTC gets a bad wrap for "quality", but they sure seem to be doing a good job over the past year with regard LTE / 3G.  



/end rant



Sorry... in the process of explaining my situation tonight for informational purposes, I got off on a bit of a tangent. frown


View original


jnt,



 



From your post it is not clear if you are aware, but you CAN disable 4G LTE on your Razr M.  Open up the phone app, type [removed], then go to "Phone Information," scroll down to "Set preferred network type," and choose "CDMA auto."  This will force your phone into 3G mode and solve any 4G/3G signal switching issues.



Edited:  Hidden menu has been removed.  Please be sure to review the house rules for more information on posting appropriately.

jntdroid
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Message 12 of 31

Re: 4G to 3G and back...


 



@Meinrad - I think you're probably right.  Hopefully some software tweaks can at least help it hold onto 4G a little longer in scenarios where it makes sense.  I can't imagine the programming that goes into the algorithms for something like this.  It's gotta be a nightmare to troubleshoot and get just right.  



@phositadc - You're exactly right, but there's a little more to what I was saying than just forcing your phone into CDMA-only mode.  Post-edit: once again I've managed to spew out an essay... sorry. blush



All the LTE devices on Verizon use eHRPD.  I might not explain this 100% correctly b/c some of it goes over my head, but eHRPD basically acts as a "middle man" network, so to speak, to aide in the hand-off between 3G and 4G - helping the transition to happen much faster.  There's probably more to it than that, but I know that's one of its main functions.  When you simply force your phone to CDMA only, all you're basically doing is telling the software not to look for LTE.



But here's the kicker...   Fortunately this hasn't happened in a long time, but remember when LTE outages were more frequent, whether local or regionally (or even nationally!), and your LTE phone couldn't even get a 3G data signal (or at least hold it reliably)?  Meanwhile your co-worker with an iPhone or older Droid (i.e. phones that were not LTE devices, but were 3G only) had a full data signal?  The reason that was happening is because the non-LTE devices were strictly evdo... no eHRPD involved at all.  I don't know if it's an authentication issue or a technological issue, but eHRPD is the reason LTE devices couldn't even get a reliable 3G connection in those situations - heck, even, at times, situations where there wasn't an outage, but LTE was struggling and the hand-off was weak.  So when you force your device into CDMA only, you're not changing anything with regard to eHRPD.  



If you can take eHRPD out of the equation (which the Tbolt, Rezound, and Inc 4G can), your phone then becomes like those 3G-only phones your coworkers were using, and has a solid 3G data connection again.  And for what it's worth, it can get 4G/LTE while in this mode, but it definitely transitions slower.  



So for whatever reason HTC's LTE devices are the only ones where you can get deep into the modem settings [removed] and "enable" evdo, rendering eHRPD powerless, basically.  It could be a hardware / chipset thing - HTC's LTE phones are the only ones that allow simultaneous voice and data on 3G alone, so there is clearly something different in their chipsets, or something HTC has enabled / allowed.  It could be simply that Moto / Samsung / etc. chose not to allow users to get into these settings on their devices.  I don't really know.



I also don't want this to turn into an ad for HTC - I absolutely love Motorola, love everything about the M (minus this minor signal issue!), and there are tradeoff's to HTC devices vs. Moto devices - each have their positives and negatives.  



But that's why I said what I said above. Smiley Wink



So now that I've managed to type you all to sleep...



Edited:  Hidden menu has been removed.  Please be sure to review the house rules for more information on posting appropriately.

DansDroid Moto Emeritus
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Message 13 of 31

Re: 4G to 3G and back...



Meinrad said:

"...And it is frustrating.  I must be right next to a tower at work.  No matter how I hold it I get about 73db.  But at my house I can easily range from 98-120 depending on how I'm holding the phone or not holding it.  And with wifi, it is also very directional.  Hold the phone and drop signal.  Point the phone another direction and get a singal.  I only dropped the wifi signal at work once yesterday.  I was holding the phone portrait with two hands, so apparrantly completely blocking the signal.  Switched to my right  hand and got the singal back.  Switched to the left hand and signal went down but not out.   Guess where the access point is, directly to my left..." 

View original


When you phone has an indicated received signal of -98 to -120 dBm, does is get noticably warm?  By any chance, you do have a known good ground source (copper water pipe, or any thing that you know that goes to an earth ground) that you can touch while testing the signal deviation when the phone is in your hand?  I would like to know if that makes any difference in the indicated signal strength.   --- Dan

Meinrad
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Message 14 of 31

Re: 4G to 3G and back...


Can't say I've noticed it get considerably warm.  I dont' tend to hold my phone for long periods of time so I don't know how long it would take to notice a difference.



I can find a good ground source at home I'm sure, I'll try to do that tonight.   

DansDroid Moto Emeritus
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Message 15 of 31

Re: 4G to 3G and back...



Meinrad said:


Can't say I've noticed it get considerably warm.  I dont' tend to hold my phone for long periods of time so I don't know how long it would take to notice a difference.



I can find a good ground source at home I'm sure, I'll try to do that tonight.   


View original




Thanks for the rapid reply.  At about -104 dBm (not set in stone) your phone should be warmer than when you have a lower (stronger) signal.  That's my signal strength here at home on average, BTW.  I appreciate you doing the grounding test at your leisure, I honestly don't know if it will make any difference but I am curious to discover the results of your findings.   --- Dan

michaelk1
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Message 16 of 31

Re: 4G to 3G and back...


I love the M but the 4g signal thing is puzzling.  It's so hard to tell because the changes from touching it aren't instant on the network type and strength screen- but it does seem fairly clear  that just putting a finger on the bezel or the 'chin' does drop the signal to a degree.  I too believe moto quality is great so it's so weird to me that they didn't notice this themselves. I wonder if the "nano coating" has an effect on continuity so just touching it changes things. I know it's left field but it is just so weird it seems "OK" to make random guesses.  I also wonder if someone was bolt enough to rip the thing down and then somehow insulate the bezel if it would help.



Real world I never lose data but do probably drop to 3g more than i'd like. Hopefully as VZW builds out LTE more and more this all becomes a non-issue. 



 

DansDroid Moto Emeritus
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Message 17 of 31

Re: 4G to 3G and back...



michaelk said:


I love the M but the 4g signal thing is puzzling.  It's so hard to tell because the changes from touching it aren't instant on the network type and strength screen- but it does seem fairly clear  that just putting a finger on the bezel or the 'chin' does drop the signal to a degree.  I too believe moto quality is great so it's so weird to me that they didn't notice this themselves. I wonder if the "nano coating" has an effect on continuity so just touching it changes things. I know it's left field but it is just so weird it seems "OK" to make random guesses.  I also wonder if someone was bolt enough to rip the thing down and then somehow insulate the bezel if it would help.



Real world I never lose data but do probably drop to 3g more than i'd like. Hopefully as VZW builds out LTE more and more this all becomes a non-issue. 



 


View original




We used the conformal coating (what Motorola refers to as their nano coating) at Lockheed/Martin in some/on some of the most sophisticated electronics that have been fielded to date, far thicker than what Motorola is using and it is completely electrically non-conductive.  I really doubt it has anything to do with the radio signals, IMO.   --- Dan

JWool
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Message 18 of 31

Re: 4G to 3G and back...


At my home mine won't hold a 4g signal, average signal strength is -96dBm shows 4g 11%

jntdroid
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Message 19 of 31

Re: 4G to 3G and back...


Time to beat a dead horse...



Looked down earlier tonight (at home where I literally never lose 4G) and my M is in 3G.  I decided to just not worry about it and leave it alone.  30  minutes later, same thing.  I watched it for a bit to make sure it wasn't switching back and forth, and it wasn't.  Gave it another 30, same thing... toggled airplane mode, immediately grabbed 4G again with full bars and -75 dbm's. 



And sorry to cross-post, so to speak, but I found this ineresting: https://forums.motorola.com/comment/668347

Meinrad
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Message 20 of 31

Re: 4G to 3G and back...


Full weekend of use, only a few issues.  Dropped wifi once even though I was 15' from the router.  Went to the Steeler game and had a solid 4g signal but couldn't load any data.  I was hoping that moving to 4g would help with that as I always had trouble with data at the stadium.  After letting it sit for a while trying to load it switched to 3g and loaded pages just fine.  Not sure what, if anything that has to do with the phone, just an observation.



I also compared my signal to that of my friends Droid 4.  We both had about -85 with out phones sitting on the table.  When picked up his went to -90 and mine to -95.  So a bit of difference there but not too siginificant.  What I"m finding is that while I still think there are issues, they are probaby issues that plague all phones to one degree or the other. 





I didn't get a chance to grab a water pipe, that is still coming.