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11-30-2012

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Re: No App Move to SD Card Option on Razr M?

2012-11-30, 15:59 PM


I want to thank Badger1313 for posting this one. My wife also bought the Razr M on my recommendation and we just now encountered this significant problem. I have been a big supporter of Motorola but I am VERY DISAPPOINTED.  This is nothing short of a bungling, if not fraud.



We cannot use the SDCARD slot at all. The 8GB loaded up, I couldn't easily move ANYTHING to the SDCARD. Even after deleting all photos and apps from the 8GB, I could not install anything. I was forced to re-initialize the phone. Afterwards, as a shiny new Jelly Bean install, I still could find no way to move apps to the reformatted 32GB sdcard. While we do like the Razr M, we never would have bought an 8GB phone, EVER, and now it is too late to return. I think this amounts to false advertizing and Motorola needs to make this one right very fast before a class-action lawsuit comes knocking.



Moto - are you listening to your own forums? If so, please respond.

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Re: No App Move to SD Card Option on Razr M?

2012-11-30, 16:28 PM


SMF317 said:


I want to thank Badger1313 for posting this one. My wife also bought the Razr M on my recommendation and we just now encountered this significant problem. I have been a big supporter of Motorola but I am VERY DISAPPOINTED.  This is nothing short of a bungling, if not fraud.



We cannot use the SDCARD slot at all. The 8GB loaded up, I couldn't easily move ANYTHING to the SDCARD. Even after deleting all photos and apps from the 8GB, I could not install anything. I was forced to re-initialize the phone. Afterwards, as a shiny new Jelly Bean install, I still could find no way to move apps to the reformatted 32GB sdcard. While we do like the Razr M, we never would have bought an 8GB phone, EVER, and now it is too late to return. I think this amounts to false advertizing and Motorola needs to make this one right very fast before a class-action lawsuit comes knocking.



Moto - are you listening to your own forums? If so, please respond.


View original


You made some serious accusations in your post, and I would simply ask that you check with the developer of the apps in question to determine of they're programmed to allow installation on an SD card.  Many are not.



As stated previously in this thread and others, there are very good reasons not to allow installation of apps on an SD card, and since Motorola doesn't advertise that apps can be installed on the SD card, there is no false advertising, no fraud, and probably no basis for a class action lawsuit, but hey...sue away, if that's what you want to do.



For the record, this is not the forum for an official Motorola response.  This is a peer-to-peer help forum only, monitored by Motorola to ensure that the forum rules are followed.  Periodically, an issue comes up that is escalated, but that is not the usual case.  Your complaint would be better served by contacting Motorola support.



If you really can't store anything at all on your SD card, there certainly is a problem.  You should be easily able to store your data there.  If an app automatically stores to internal storage you can move it, but the fix for that is to contact the developer and request that the app be programmed to ask for a data storage location.  



In the year that I've been here, this forum has been extremely liberal in its tolerance of rants, raves, and venting.  The prohibition is against excessive bashing.  IMHO, your unproven allegations of bungling, fraud, and false advertising, and the threat of a class-action lawsuit, rise to the level of excessive, especially since the only people hearing you are other users like yourself.

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Re: No App Move to SD Card Option on Razr M?

2012-12-02, 17:53 PM


crystallet said:


As was said before, in at least some cases, it's the developer who's responsible, especially with regard to paid apps, because the inability to move the entire app to the SD card makes it harder to "share" the app with someone who didn't pay for it.



I think a different issue is when a developer doesn't allow an app's data to be stored on the SD card, especially when it comes to apps that require large databases in order to function.  While different phones call their external storage locations different things, all the dev would have to do is write a routine that asks the user for the storage location.  Impossible for me to do, but probably not hard for the dev to accomplish.



I think this is another one of those discussions that doesn't have a "right" or "wrong" answer, but IMHO, when a phone manufacturer makes it harder for apps to be "shared," they are actually supporting the developers by helping to make sure that feedback/cost/enhancement suggestions/complaints all wind up where they're supposed to: with the developer.


View original


 



It's rarely the developers fault.



This is NOT at all about Moto/Google being magnanimous and trying to help dev's make more money by stopping pirating. Android contains the ability to securely move an app to the sd card. Plenty of apps allow that- yet they can't use it on this phone. Also the ability to move data to sd card has been there since probably 2.0 and the original droid if i am remembering correctly- again many of the apps that can handle this on most other phones don't work here. The problem here is that moto/google have stolen the directory name 'sd card' to use to describe internal storage. The seeds of this got laid because they botched SD card with internal memory support while RUSHING 3.x so they could get the Xoom to market to have an answer to the ipad. It's apparently been compounded by the paranoia that rooting must be stopped at all costs- even if it breaks features on the device. Rather then deal with this correctly and come up with a permanent solution-  they decided to just remove the option to "move to SD". I figured it was OK to release 4.0 that way but I'm honestly shocked they didn't correct it in 4.1.  



If you think about it, it's kind of silly to suggest that tens of thousands of developers recode their apps with a work around because of this new shortcoming in the razr M (and other particular phones)- rather than one group of people that creates the os to fix it the right way? If your a dev- what do you do if your work around gets broken when Google/Moto "fixes" the problem a couple versions from now?



I generally scoff at this nonsense of "fragmentation"- but THIS is exactly an example that i think IS a shortcoming. There should be ONE official file system that the developers need to expect and code for.  



I don't think it's appropriate to blame the poor developers. I'm a big moto and google  fan too but lets not blindly blame everyone but them for problems they created. 



 



 

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Re: No App Move to SD Card Option on Razr M?

2012-12-02, 19:33 PM


michaelk said:



crystallet said:


As was said before, in at least some cases, it's the developer who's responsible, especially with regard to paid apps, because the inability to move the entire app to the SD card makes it harder to "share" the app with someone who didn't pay for it.



I think a different issue is when a developer doesn't allow an app's data to be stored on the SD card, especially when it comes to apps that require large databases in order to function.  While different phones call their external storage locations different things, all the dev would have to do is write a routine that asks the user for the storage location.  Impossible for me to do, but probably not hard for the dev to accomplish.



I think this is another one of those discussions that doesn't have a "right" or "wrong" answer, but IMHO, when a phone manufacturer makes it harder for apps to be "shared," they are actually supporting the developers by helping to make sure that feedback/cost/enhancement suggestions/complaints all wind up where they're supposed to: with the developer.


View original


 



It's rarely the developers fault.



This is NOT at all about Moto/Google being magnanimous and trying to help dev's make more money by stopping pirating. Android contains the ability to securely move an app to the sd card. Plenty of apps allow that- yet they can't use it on this phone. Also the ability to move data to sd card has been there since probably 2.0 and the original droid if i am remembering correctly- again many of the apps that can handle this on most other phones don't work here. The problem here is that moto/google have stolen the directory name 'sd card' to use to describe internal storage. The seeds of this got laid because they botched SD card with internal memory support while RUSHING 3.x so they could get the Xoom to market to have an answer to the ipad. It's apparently been compounded by the paranoia that rooting must be stopped at all costs- even if it breaks features on the device. Rather then deal with this correctly and come up with a permanent solution-  they decided to just remove the option to "move to SD". I figured it was OK to release 4.0 that way but I'm honestly shocked they didn't correct it in 4.1.  



If you think about it, it's kind of silly to suggest that tens of thousands of developers recode their apps with a work around because of this new shortcoming in the razr M (and other particular phones)- rather than one group of people that creates the os to fix it the right way? If your a dev- what do you do if your work around gets broken when Google/Moto "fixes" the problem a couple versions from now?



I generally scoff at this nonsense of "fragmentation"- but THIS is exactly an example that i think IS a shortcoming. There should be ONE official file system that the developers need to expect and code for.  



I don't think it's appropriate to blame the poor developers. I'm a big moto and google  fan too but lets not blindly blame everyone but them for problems they created. 



 



 


View original


Please do not misquote me.  I am not blaming developers.  I think they're perfectly within their rights to prohibit installation to an SD card in their apps.  Even so, in the interests of maximizing storage space, I think that in programs that require a lot of data, there should be functionality that allows at least the database to be installed on the SD card.  That's what I said above.



Phones have a lot more processing power today than they did when Android 2 was the norm, and the available apps are getting far more functional requiring ever more complex programming.  If I were a developer, I'd protect my work from pirating, even recognizing all of the legitimate reasons for making an app portable.



You are, of course, entitled to your opinions. 



 

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11-29-2012

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Re: No App Move to SD Card Option on Razr M?

2012-12-02, 22:29 PM


To be fair crystallet, you may wish to try reading your previous posts from another's persepctive. I think they may have come off harsher than you intended after reading (& re-reading) your last post. Also, when someone points out that they are upset about something (or lack of something), the last thing one should do is pull a "Steve Jobs" and tell them there's not a problem from Motorola's end/deflect to the developers. If they wanted that response, they would be in an Apple store instead on a Moto forum. 



Motorola is a good company that makes pretty awesome hardware and sometimes makes software choices that cause facial tweeks (i.e. Blur). I actually love their build quality and honestly think their radios are way beyond any competator. With that said, this is not something that they could brag about. Google has implemented many things in Android to help developers when properly utilized (directed at you Madfinger!), and this is something that is fast approaching the alienation of customers.



The question remains about us pointing the finger at Motorola for this. I don't think it's really appropriate for us to blame Motorola for trying to push the envelope in development. The bleeding edge does tend to bleed with new concepts and hardware/software. HOWEVER, letting a problem remain because developers could potentially change their programing is a lot like telling someone that the reception for a phone is something that people can aleviate on their own by becoming right-handed. 



Plainly put: There is a problem.



 



Side note: My previous company (international and multi-million dollar) learned that the best way to stay in business is talking with customers, asking their ideas, and changing things when they were not working, They flew people in from all over the world (not just big customers as random mom and pop shops were included) and had a two day face-to-face on their dime every year. The payoff was a radically altered product line and even a hefty profit when the recession finally hit their sector of business. We believed it was because people were getting what they wanted and didn't have to pay extra for stuff they didn't want or use. The best ideas all came from these yearly meetings, granted there was plenty of sifting to be done, but even I ended inputing some ideas that were incorperated into the software by my coworkers in Engineering. 



To summarize, customers know what they want, know when things aren't working, and actually have some pretty awesome contributions to add to the product because they are the ones using them day-to-day. With that in mind, I honestly do hope that Motorola reads these forums and doesn't ignore this amazing resource.

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Re: No App Move to SD Card Option on Razr M?

2012-12-02, 23:03 PM


H-one said:


To be fair crystallet, you may wish to try reading your previous posts from another's persepctive. I think they may have come off harsher than you intended after reading (& re-reading) your last post. Also, when someone points out that they are upset about something (or lack of something), the last thing one should do is pull a "Steve Jobs" and tell them there's not a problem from Motorola's end/deflect to the developers. If they wanted that response, they would be in an Apple store instead on a Moto forum. 



Motorola is a good company that makes pretty awesome hardware and sometimes makes software choices that cause facial tweeks (i.e. Blur). I actually love their build quality and honestly think their radios are way beyond any competator. With that said, this is not something that they could brag about. Google has implemented many things in Android to help developers when properly utilized (directed at you Madfinger!), and this is something that is fast approaching the alienation of customers.



The question remains about us pointing the finger at Motorola for this. I don't think it's really appropriate for us to blame Motorola for trying to push the envelope in development. The bleeding edge does tend to bleed with new concepts and hardware/software. HOWEVER, letting a problem remain because developers could potentially change their programing is a lot like telling someone that the reception for a phone is something that people can aleviate on their own by becoming right-handed. 



Plainly put: There is a problem.



 



Side note: My previous company (international and multi-million dollar) learned that the best way to stay in business is talking with customers, asking their ideas, and changing things when they were not working, They flew people in from all over the world (not just big customers as random mom and pop shops were included) and had a two day face-to-face on their dime every year. The payoff was a radically altered product line and even a hefty profit when the recession finally hit their sector of business. We believed it was because people were getting what they wanted and didn't have to pay extra for stuff they didn't want or use. The best ideas all came from these yearly meetings, granted there was plenty of sifting to be done, but even I ended inputing some ideas that were incorperated into the software by my coworkers in Engineering. 



To summarize, customers know what they want, know when things aren't working, and actually have some pretty awesome contributions to add to the product because they are the ones using them day-to-day. With that in mind, I honestly do hope that Motorola reads these forums and doesn't ignore this amazing resource.


View original


To anyone who thinks I've been harsh, I apologize. 



This is a peer-to-peer forum, designed for users to help users.  If the users can't solve the problem, then an alternative course of action is required.  In this case, that would probably mean escalating the case through Motorola, but this forum is not a direct line to Motorola support, nor does it purport to be.  The forum manager does not read every post; the forum is moderated by users.



The forum rules prohibit excessive Motorola bashing, but they are quite tolerant as to their definition of "excessive."  The fact is that this problem cannot be solved here, primarily because the right people will not hear the complaints. 



On the other sides of this coin (heads/tails/edge) there are people with over 800 apps who aren't moving apps to an SD card and are perfectly happy.  There are other threads discussing the fact that developers won't permit the installation of data on an SD card.



Bottom line?  The problem is not as simple as "Motorola isn't meeting my needs."  And, in the overall scheme of things, when it comes to enhancing the OS or fixing problems, no company has unlimited resources, and they must prioritize what gets fixed first, or at all.



It's not that raising the issue in this forum is beating a dead horse; it's beating the wrong horse; and the ultimate complaint is this: patronize another manufacturer if this one doesn't meet your needs or is deaf to your requests and issues.



 

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Re: No App Move to SD Card Option on Razr M?

2012-12-02, 23:14 PM


crystallet-



 



sorry if you think i misquoted you. You said in some instances it's the developers fault. I don't think it is. (at least not in the context of this thread)



the issue we are talking about here is that google /Motorola BROKE what was there. There is a way build into Android  for developers to specifically allow the OS to securely move/install  apps to the SD card. Moto/Google REMOVED that from the RAZR M. There are many many apps which were one could move/install to the SD card in previous moto phones like the original droid and droid pro that i previously owned that no longer can be moved to SD card on the RAZR M because google/ moto removed the function from the OS- the button is gone..   



Beyond that   lots of apps are coded in such a way that even if the app is loaded on the phone that the data is stored on the "sd card". The problem here is that moto and google used the mount point (I think that's what it is called) named "sd card" (or whatever ) and used that to describe some internal memory.  That  mess started with the xoom and has continued and appears that it may have gotten more fouled up because of their desire to keep people from rooting.



The issue i think most of us are concerned with (in this particular thread) is that moto /google removed that feature of the OS "move to SD".  



And beyond that google/ moto have compounded the problem because the also broke the standard for developers to put data on the sd card ->  sdcard/android/data is NOT on the actual Sd card so it in fact uses phone memory.  It's tough to tell developers to ignore sdcard/android/data when even google, Verizon and Motorola use that folder under the assumption it will be on the actual sd card.  Look for your self that folder contains from google earth, youtube , Verizon isis, Motorola messaging, moto gallery,  google maps, and others. It's not just third party developers that got fouled up by the choices made on this phone- even google, moto, and Verizon themselves got tricked up. 



 



So it's not the devs trying to keep their stuff of the SD cards it's moto and google who fubared the way things were.

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Re: No App Move to SD Card Option on Razr M?

2012-12-03, 0:04 AM


crystallet said:


To anyone who thinks I've been harsh, I apologize. 



This is a peer-to-peer forum, designed for users to help users.  If the users can't solve the problem, then an alternative course of action is required.  In this case, that would probably mean escalating the case through Motorola, but this forum is not a direct line to Motorola support, nor does it purport to be.  The forum manager does not read every post; the forum is moderated by users.



The forum rules prohibit excessive Motorola bashing, but they are quite tolerant as to their definition of "excessive."  The fact is that this problem cannot be solved here, primarily because the right people will not hear the complaints. 



On the other sides of this coin (heads/tails/edge) there are people with over 800 apps who aren't moving apps to an SD card and are perfectly happy.  There are other threads discussing the fact that developers won't permit the installation of data on an SD card.



Bottom line?  The problem is not as simple as "Motorola isn't meeting my needs."  And, in the overall scheme of things, when it comes to enhancing the OS or fixing problems, no company has unlimited resources, and they must prioritize what gets fixed first, or at all.



It's not that raising the issue in this forum is beating a dead horse; it's beating the wrong horse; and the ultimate complaint is this: patronize another manufacturer if this one doesn't meet your needs or is deaf to your requests and issues.



 


View original


 



 



Quick about me: Although my account aludes to a more recent joining, I actually have been an active reader and poster on these forums since the release of the Xoom 3g/4g (excusing the last several months as I finally sold my Xoom). This phone was thrust upon me by Verizon after improper updating my previous phone to Jelly Bean and breaking the bluetooth coding on the Model. After a lot of denial on Verizon's part about the update, they finally owned up to messing up the update after it came from the manufacturer and to keep me quiet they pushed another device into my lap instead of updating all the models. Since it was a new beginning, I decided to get a new account instead of reviving my old one. 



 



To borrow your metaphor, there are two sides of the coin on this topic of Motorola and these boards. I am fully aware of the purpose of the boards, but I also know how it is to deal with Motorola's support. The harsh reality is that this thread may be infinitely more effective than a half-interested person on the phone who will never follow up on it. Paraphrasing an ealier post , Motorola employees were suprised to  hear about this issue and redirected them here and suggested some apps might be able to fix it.



If anything, I the quantity of the threads of this type are a testament to Matt's character in following through with issues brought up, assuming he catches wind throughout the week. I also worry that many ambitions are missunderstood about the continuation of these threads. When these topics don't merely die off, more people become aware of the issue. As more people find out the thread grows and usually: Someone creates a workaround, enough people harass Motorola to get something done, some happy developer spots the need for a band-aid app and slaps the info about it into the thread (i.e. gmanapps creating a workaround for SD read/write on the Xoom) or possibly Motorola simply takes the issue more seriously because of the activitey. All of which are positive for the consumer. The downside being that some people do get fired up about nothing and go into "beast-mode" on the forums. For that I am glad moderators exist, but to try and silence people looking for answers because they are annoying or beating a dead horse delivers the question of  "Why bother taking the time to click on the thread, read new posts, and get worked up about an issue that doesn't pertain to you or your interests?"



Not meant as an insult, clarifying because internet forums don't let me change my vocal pattern and mannerisms in posts, but I learned to avoid threads that drive me crazy. No need to perpetuate one's own anger. To be fair, I do honestly think that you brought some very important info to the discussion, as you brought a counter argument and viewpoint.



These are entirely my opinions of course and may differ greatly from everyone else. Good thing we're all adults here (at least I assume we all are since the internet easily turns 56 year old men into 16 year old girls *shudder*) and we can discuss this in a civil tone. Seriously, I hate reading threads on boards filled with "*removed by moderator*" and "*edited by moderator*" so everyoine can take that as a compliment.

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Re: No App Move to SD Card Option on Razr M?

2012-12-03, 0:52 AM


H-one said:



crystallet said:


To anyone who thinks I've been harsh, I apologize. 



This is a peer-to-peer forum, designed for users to help users.  If the users can't solve the problem, then an alternative course of action is required.  In this case, that would probably mean escalating the case through Motorola, but this forum is not a direct line to Motorola support, nor does it purport to be.  The forum manager does not read every post; the forum is moderated by users.



The forum rules prohibit excessive Motorola bashing, but they are quite tolerant as to their definition of "excessive."  The fact is that this problem cannot be solved here, primarily because the right people will not hear the complaints. 



On the other sides of this coin (heads/tails/edge) there are people with over 800 apps who aren't moving apps to an SD card and are perfectly happy.  There are other threads discussing the fact that developers won't permit the installation of data on an SD card.



Bottom line?  The problem is not as simple as "Motorola isn't meeting my needs."  And, in the overall scheme of things, when it comes to enhancing the OS or fixing problems, no company has unlimited resources, and they must prioritize what gets fixed first, or at all.



It's not that raising the issue in this forum is beating a dead horse; it's beating the wrong horse; and the ultimate complaint is this: patronize another manufacturer if this one doesn't meet your needs or is deaf to your requests and issues.



 


View original


 



 



Quick about me: Although my account aludes to a more recent joining, I actually have been an active reader and poster on these forums since the release of the Xoom 3g/4g (excusing the last several months as I finally sold my Xoom). This phone was thrust upon me by Verizon after improper updating my previous phone to Jelly Bean and breaking the bluetooth coding on the Model. After a lot of denial on Verizon's part about the update, they finally owned up to messing up the update after it came from the manufacturer and to keep me quiet they pushed another device into my lap instead of updating all the models. Since it was a new beginning, I decided to get a new account instead of reviving my old one. 



 



To borrow your metaphor, there are two sides of the coin on this topic of Motorola and these boards. I am fully aware of the purpose of the boards, but I also know how it is to deal with Motorola's support. The harsh reality is that this thread may be infinitely more effective than a half-interested person on the phone who will never follow up on it. Paraphrasing an ealier post , Motorola employees were suprised to  hear about this issue and redirected them here and suggested some apps might be able to fix it.



If anything, I the quantity of the threads of this type are a testament to Matt's character in following through with issues brought up, assuming he catches wind throughout the week. I also worry that many ambitions are missunderstood about the continuation of these threads. When these topics don't merely die off, more people become aware of the issue. As more people find out the thread grows and usually: Someone creates a workaround, enough people harass Motorola to get something done, some happy developer spots the need for a band-aid app and slaps the info about it into the thread (i.e. gmanapps creating a workaround for SD read/write on the Xoom) or possibly Motorola simply takes the issue more seriously because of the activitey. All of which are positive for the consumer. The downside being that some people do get fired up about nothing and go into "beast-mode" on the forums. For that I am glad moderators exist, but to try and silence people looking for answers because they are annoying or beating a dead horse delivers the question of  "Why bother taking the time to click on the thread, read new posts, and get worked up about an issue that doesn't pertain to you or your interests?"



Not meant as an insult, clarifying because internet forums don't let me change my vocal pattern and mannerisms in posts, but I learned to avoid threads that drive me crazy. No need to perpetuate one's own anger. To be fair, I do honestly think that you brought some very important info to the discussion, as you brought a counter argument and viewpoint.



These are entirely my opinions of course and may differ greatly from everyone else. Good thing we're all adults here (at least I assume we all are since the internet easily turns 56 year old men into 16 year old girls *shudder*) and we can discuss this in a civil tone. Seriously, I hate reading threads on boards filled with "*removed by moderator*" and "*edited by moderator*" so everyoine can take that as a compliment.


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16 year old boys can be just as bad.  How about "turns adults into teenagers"?

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Re: No App Move to SD Card Option on Razr M?

2012-12-03, 1:14 AM


lol I actually had that typed originally and ironically, I meant the guy was the shudder inducing part.



Just let the idea of an overweight male in a sweat-stained undershirt, who's pretending to be a 16 yr old girl on a computer in a darkly lit apartment, not make you start thinking about To catch a predator.* The symbology was where that part really hit pay dirt. ;-)



 



 



*Disclaimer: Not all 56 yr old, overweight, sweat-stained shirt wearing, dark apartment typing, men pretending to be 16 year old girls online belong on To Catch a Predator. However, they do all cause me to shudder. 

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