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2598 Posts

03-19-2009

Germany

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  • Message 11 of 60

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

2014-08-11, 14:32 PM


Flipping through 18 pages indeed requires more click from me. Whereas the support content for older machines, it seems like a limitation.



The 18 pages are the minor problem because you can display the drivers by group with the listbox above.

A greater problem are the missing contents for notebooks previous generation T40, because many very old ThinkPads still are in use. I've just repaired a T20 and prepared a T21 and now can't get the drivers anymore. ;(

--------------------------------
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8095 Posts

11-19-2007

United States of America

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  • Message 12 of 60

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

2014-08-11, 16:10 PM

dr_st,

 

Lenovo is maintaining system information and files / downloads going back 7 years.   This should cover back through about the T60 era systems.  

 

I realize there are individuals who maintain older systems as part of a collection or may want to reload and repurpose them for other tasks and we may receive requests / feedback on these.

 

As this conversation continues, it will be helpful to get a sense of what content, drivers are still needed for systems more than 7 years old.  There may be some exceptions, and the feedback will help in identifying areas where this is still customer interest / need.

 

 

 

Thanks

 

Mark

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2598 Posts

03-19-2009

Germany

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  • Message 13 of 60

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

2014-08-11, 16:38 PM

Hello Mark,

thank you for your additional PM - let's have a look, whether it will work ;)

 

Kind Regards

Mornsgrans

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56 Posts

11-24-2007

Israel

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  • Message 14 of 60

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

2014-08-11, 19:39 PM

Mark,

Thank you very much for your reply and your involvement in this. :)

 

Short answer:

 

Whatever was available needs to continue be available. For EOL systems, no new content should be created, and no customer support should be offered. That is a very reasonable support cutoff approach. However, I see no reason why existing content, which is completely static should be scrapped and users should be denied what they have been getting all this time.

 

Longer answer:

 

I can guess that with the transition to the new support site, Lenovo needed to reorganize existing content, which is a great deal of work. Let's not go into a lengthy discussion about whether it was necessary / desired by customers, and whether the new support site is better or not. I guess that in order to save the time in the transition, someone at Lenovo decided to do an arbitrary cutoff of very old systems, and that content just was not migrated.

 

Side remark: why I say that the cutoff was arbitrary? It is because it was not determined by a strict date, and is not even consistent). For example, Thinkpad T40, which was announced in 2003 an withdrawn in 2004 has been migrated, and Thinkpad X32, announced in 2005 and withdrawn in 2006, has not been.

 

Also, if you check the model/type lookup site, then even much later models (e.g., T60) do not appear.

 

I can understand why no one has any interest in spending lots of time and effort to migrate such old content which is of limited use. However, I still think that just trashing the content is an unacceptable approach.

 

I think a reasonable approach would be keeping the legacy content in the legacy system, or some other format, completely static, without any future updates, and without any liability/warranty from Lenovo's side. This way the "old timers" who still want the content can access it, and there is no maintenance overhead for Lenovo. (I hope there is no need to discuss here the costs of storage/web traffic for this content ; anyone should clearly see that they are totally negligible).

 

For examples on what that content should be, let's see what's offered for a legacy model that has been migrated:

http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/thinkpad-t-series-laptops/thinkpad-t40

* Downloads (drivers and software)

* Technical manuals and videos

* FAQ (solution to common problems)

* Parts and accessories lists

 

Of all these probably the downloads and technical documentation (manuals/videos) is the most important, but that is in my opinion, and someone else may think differently. Like I said in the beginning - I believe that it would be best to just keep everything. Perhaps in a completely separate content system, that will clearly distinguish current products from EOL products (like legacysupport.lenovo.com), with no ties between the old and the new.

 

The availability of advanced technical content has been a huge advantage of IBM/Lenovo products in the past ~20 years, and it would be a real shame to lose it.

 

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12 Posts

12-13-2011

United States of America

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  • Message 15 of 60

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

2014-08-11, 21:05 PM

Hi dr_st,

 

I wanted to add to what Mark has posted and address some of the points you raised.

 

I agree that what products we support on the site might appear to be arbitrary. We did use a cutoff of 7 years, however we knew some of the older systems were of interest and so the Content Team picked some of the higher-trafficked products and included them in the migration. This is why Mark mentioned wanting to know more about what systems might be of interest and what content... we could bring up for consideration possibly adding back some of the content.

 

A little more detail on why we limited the content and why we didn't do something like your suggestion of a static site. The amount of content that was not migrated to the new website is over 120,000 documents, not including the files that were attached. This was kept in a dynamic platform so the relationships of the content, and their categories to the product is dynaically maintained within the specific software system. Transitioning the data in that format (relational database structure along with some business/logic rules only within the software itself) to something that would be a workable static HTML site would be an extensive project on top of what were were already trying to accomplish. Unfortunately it just wasn't a workable option. But I want you to know it wasn't something we did lightly or without consideration.

 

Another part of the equation was performance. We have a product taxonomy of over 900,000 products (without the older models) and if we kept the older models with their associated content and downloads in our content management system, the maintenance of all of that content is quite extensive. What I mean by that is not necessarily updating the content itself, but the overhead added to different site functions like content indexing, product taxonomy indexing, site database backups (they can't all be incremental :) ), searching by MTM... the performance of all of these things had to be taken into account because they would impact the infrastructure performance and site experience for all products across the board, all countries worldwide.

 

So in the end we had to compomise. We hoped for the win-win scenario but... hopefully we can explore some options with you all around what we could do for these older systems. I appreciate your feedback and please keep it coming!

 

Cheers,

Brooke



Product Owner, Community & Social Media
Lenovo, Worldwide eService
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4169 Posts

11-20-2007

United States of America

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  • Message 16 of 60

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

2014-08-11, 21:23 PM
Dump them to a drive where we can FTP them. Problem solved.

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Jane
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2015 X1 Carbon, ThinkPad Slate, T410s, X301, X200 Tablet, T60p, HP TouchPad, iPad Air 2, iPhone 5S, IdeaTab A2107A, Yoga Tablet, Yoga 3 Pro
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664 Posts

10-21-2011

Germany

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  • Message 17 of 60

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

2014-08-11, 21:53 PM

VerityBanks schrieb:

 

This is why Mark mentioned wanting to know more about what systems might be of interest and what content... we could bring up for consideration possibly adding back some of the content.

 

Cheers,

Brooke


2 points I noticed:

- X40 and X41 Tablet are there, but the X41 (non-Tablet) is missing

- Whats not working is the type-number search for older systems - if I type in the model number of my T440s (20AQS00600), the site will give me the specs of my system, but if I type in for example the model number of an older ThinkPad like the T400 (you can test it for yourself with 6475-D3G) I will only get "No Results Found - Please check and try again.". I have tested it with a T410, which works, all older model numbers can´t be found.

 

Regards,

ibmthink

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7651 Posts

11-24-2007

USA

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  • Message 18 of 60

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

2014-08-11, 23:26 PM

wrote:

 

 

- Whats not working is the type-number search for older systems - if I type in the model number of my T440s (20AQS00600), the site will give me the specs of my system, but if I type in for example the model number of an older ThinkPad like the T400 (you can test it for yourself with 6475-D3G) I will only get "No Results Found - Please check and try again.". I have tested it with a T410, which works, all older model numbers can´t be found.

Regards,

ibmthink


^^^^^^

 

This is a *huge* problem.

 

If we can't look up the machine's original specs, giving proper advice to users becomes extremely difficult.

Cheers,

George




In daily use: R60F, R500F, T61, T410

Collecting dust: T60

Enjoying retirement: A31p, T42p,

Non-ThinkPads: Panasonic CF-31 & CF-52, HP 8760W




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773 Posts

06-20-2011

United States of America

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  • Message 19 of 60

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

2014-08-12, 1:36 AM

KUDOS to Jane, and George, as I agree with their posts.

 

I guess that I'm out of the Kudo loop, in this thread. :smileysad:

 

Still, I can't believe that some, out of the way server, could not be used for all the proper historical support info/docs that anyone can access. :smileysurprised:

 

After all, didn't Lenovo just buy the IBM server line? :smileytongue:

 

Dale

_________________________________________________________________________

I'm DO'ing IT

Yoga 900 Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6500U CPU @ 2.50GHz (Skylake-Y)

X1 Carbon 2nd Gen (20A8) ThinkPad/YOGA Tablet 2 Pro-1380F/IdeaCentre A520 All-In-One i5-3230M/Lenovo Y470 i7-2630QM/T420

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2192 Posts

05-02-2008

Malaysia

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  • Message 20 of 60

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

2014-08-12, 2:03 AM
George,

My T400 with MTM 2767-V7U cannot be found too. Maybe we can have a list for the missing MTM which its model can be found but not via MTM.

T400: 2767-V7U
T400: 6475-D3G


T410, x240

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