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7651 Posts

11-24-2007

USA

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  • Message 21 of 60

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

2014-08-12, 2:27 AM

wrote:
George,

My T400 with MTM 2767-V7U cannot be found too. Maybe we can have a list for the missing MTM which its model can be found but not via MTM.

T400: 2767-V7U
T400: 6475-D3G

You can bet that anything prior to T410 and its contemporaries is MIA, and that is NOT good.

 

Someone needs to fix this. Yesterday.

Cheers,

George




In daily use: R60F, R500F, T61, T410

Collecting dust: T60

Enjoying retirement: A31p, T42p,

Non-ThinkPads: Panasonic CF-31 & CF-52, HP 8760W




Starting Thursday, 08/14/2014 I'll be away from the forums until further notice. Please do NOT send private messages since I won't be able to read them. Thank you.
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56 Posts

11-24-2007

Israel

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  • Message 22 of 60

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

2014-08-12, 11:57 AM

 


wrote:

Hi dr_st,

 

I wanted to add to what Mark has posted and address some of the points you raised.

 

I agree that what products we support on the site might appear to be arbitrary. We did use a cutoff of 7 years, however we knew some of the older systems were of interest and so the Content Team picked some of the higher-trafficked products and included them in the migration. This is why Mark mentioned wanting to know more about what systems might be of interest and what content... we could bring up for consideration possibly adding back some of the content.

 

A little more detail on why we limited the content and why we didn't do something like your suggestion of a static site. The amount of content that was not migrated to the new website is over 120,000 documents, not including the files that were attached. This was kept in a dynamic platform so the relationships of the content, and their categories to the product is dynaically maintained within the specific software system. Transitioning the data in that format (relational database structure along with some business/logic rules only within the software itself) to something that would be a workable static HTML site would be an extensive project on top of what were were already trying to accomplish. Unfortunately it just wasn't a workable option. But I want you to know it wasn't something we did lightly or without consideration.

 

Another part of the equation was performance. We have a product taxonomy of over 900,000 products (without the older models) and if we kept the older models with their associated content and downloads in our content management system, the maintenance of all of that content is quite extensive. What I mean by that is not necessarily updating the content itself, but the overhead added to different site functions like content indexing, product taxonomy indexing, site database backups (they can't all be incremental :) ), searching by MTM... the performance of all of these things had to be taken into account because they would impact the infrastructure performance and site experience for all products across the board, all countries worldwide.

 

So in the end we had to compomise. We hoped for the win-win scenario but... hopefully we can explore some options with you all around what we could do for these older systems. I appreciate your feedback and please keep it coming!

 

Cheers,

Brooke


Dear Brooke,

 

Thank you for the response and the detailed explanation. Your readiness to discuss this openly is, in itself, commendable and much appreciated. :)

 

As someone who writes software for a living, the struggle between innovation / new features and support for existing legacy features/content is something I can understand and relate to. And even though I don't do database-related work, I can understand what you said about the difficulty of generating fully static content from the existing system.

 

What I would like to propose is an approach that we try to use in my organization when it comes to supporting legacy features that we no longer wish to maintain. Basically - offer the content "as is", in a complete closed box - take it or leave it. The customers understand that they can not expect any updates/maintenance or even fixes in this content. What they get is what there was before the EOL, and nothing more. But also nothing less. We "freeze" a certain software state, and it stays there. But we never make it unavailable.

 

I think it your case it can be solved by a separate web server / database, completely detached from the new system. Probably even a different URL would be good. You can just upload the latest snapshot of the old support site, pre-migration, perhaps cutting from it the new products to avoid duplication and confusion (if it was possible to selectively choose products for migration, the reverse should also be not difficult). And that's it.

 

You don't need to update the content, or the software. You don't need to index it. Let Google do it for you. It will be completely detached from the new system, thefore not impacting the performance for the majority of users that care only about the new products.

 

The only overhead would be backup of the content (since it will hardly change - and maintenance of the hardware on which it all sits and runs. Considering today's costs of storage - I think it won't even be felt in your books. :)

 

A good cutoff point, in my opinion, would be the transition point between IBM Thinkpads and Lenovo Thinkpads. Just like with the PSREF documents - where all the IBM era sheets are listed separately with "no future updates" disclaimed.

 

Please do not go down the route of trashing the vast amount of knowledge and information that was available in the old system. If you do this now - there will be no turning back, and many users that for various reasons still require access to this knowledge will be hurt, and the damage will be permanent and irreversible.

 

This is one place where we can get inspiration from Microsoft. They still keep the Knowledge Base articles even for products that they been out of support well over a decate, like DOS and Windows 3.x, and the content has even been migrated through several generations of their KB system. :)

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8095 Posts

11-19-2007

United States of America

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  • Message 23 of 60

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

2014-08-12, 17:39 PM

Ibmthink, dragonoak, Ajkulla66,

 

Thanks for the feedback as well.   These specifics will help with a bit of further testing.

 

In the case of the T400, it may be that specific model types are missing from the MTM taxonomy and need to be updated, rather than the content not being there as expected.

 

From the home page, I can put in T400 and then click the pull down arrow on the box and see T400 and T400s listed.  I can also put in T500, and so, I can get to the drivers for that generation of systems.   Once on the driver page, I'm having a bit of trouble selecting change and getting it to recognize, the T400 or T400s at that point.

 

So, in the course of this discussion we may need to sort out what isn't working as expected as a potential bug vs what is currently available based on the age / vintage points made up stream.  I would expect the T400/500 content to be within the 7 year window and available.

 

I understand this does not address the broader topic of keeping / making older content available.    Some great feedback provided already here.

 

Mark

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2598 Posts

03-19-2009

Germany

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  • Message 24 of 60

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

2014-08-12, 18:52 PM

Btw:

I recommend to move the discussion concerning the vintage ThinkPads into a separate thread and continue feature requests and bug-reports concerning the the new support-site here. It might help Mark and his team to aim the more important target now.

--------------------------------
My home-forum: http://www.thinkpad-forum.de
Wiki: Deutsches ThinkPad-Wiki English ThinkWiki
My ThinkPad-Collection
Coffee must be like women's eyes: deep black & shiny. ThinkPads have to be like men's feet: deep black & matte!
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17 Posts

08-13-2014

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

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  • Message 25 of 60

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

2014-08-13, 20:49 PM

Its been a frustrating day trying to access drivers for a couple of older ThinkPad products (T61 and a T30), product numbers are not accepted for any of our thinkpad products in the office. Up until this point I would never considered owning any other brand for the simple reason I have confidence in long time availability of drivers and downloads for Think Products. I hope this is a temporary issue.

 

But most disappointing is the legacy (vintage) thinkpad product drivers have been removed. Please..please put them back! There are a great deal of think product enthusiasts (me being one of them) who have always boasted of IBM and then Lenovo policy of keeping drivers, manuals etc available for these old products. For instance I personally own a 560, 560x, 560Z, 240, 240X, T20, T21, T22, T23, T30, T40, T41, T42, T43, T43P, T60P, T61, T61P, T500, W500, X23, X40, X60, X200. and a handfull of older models (390 770 etc) Plus accessories contemporary with the systems. All of these systems are kept in tip top condition, but occasionally I will buy another older system just for the challenge of setting it up with Windows 3.1 or 95 etc. I am gutted these seem to have been removed. Obviously I do not expect any level of support, but why removeolder items completely?

 

I do hope Lenovo reconsider the recent deletion of product information, not just for personal reasons but to keep the confidence IT professionals have in Think Products old and new.

 

One final suggestion regarding legacy Think Products: A Legacy site dedicated to the older systems would be very welcome. ThinkPad history is so rich with inovation.  IBM and Lenovo have invested so much time and energy in producing superb ThinkPad products and this hostory deserves to be preserved. This in itself presents unique sales potential and something no other manufacturer are doing. Imagine being able to download original videos and wallpapers for a 1990s thinkpad, read technical articles and download drivers, manuals for products and accessoris. No support is required, just a static 'as is' site.

In Use: W530, X220T, Miix 3 1030
Retired: 560, 560X, 560Z, 240, 240X, 600E, 600X, i1300, 570, 770Z, T20, T21, T23, T30, T40, T41, T42, T43, T43P, T60, T60P, T61, T61P, T500, W500, W510, X23, X40, X60, X200, X201t
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8095 Posts

11-19-2007

United States of America

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  • Message 26 of 60

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

2014-08-13, 21:23 PM

tonewheels,

 

I appreciate the feedback and the more people that share their concerns and the broader implications, the better we can gauge the scope of the concern and best way to address it given our current path.

 

Our express site is still up and contains a lot of the drivers for the older systems in the driver matrix.   Perhaps this can help you today!

 

http://download.lenovo.com/express/

 

Best regards,

 

Mark

 

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17 Posts

08-13-2014

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

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  • Message 27 of 60

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

2014-08-13, 21:40 PM

Thanks for the link Mark - that makes it a whole lot easier. I never knew that area of the site existed! Even my older 560 and 600 series thinkpads are on there :smileyhappy:

 

If the product numbers are fixed on the new site that will make a difference. for example my daughters T61 is a 7665-AS5, no results found. My personal system I am using right now at home is a W500 (4063-33G) also no results found. I dont requre anything for them at the moment but its very usefull to call up the system specs such as GPU, CPU etc and then download the relavent drivers from the called up page.

In Use: W530, X220T, Miix 3 1030
Retired: 560, 560X, 560Z, 240, 240X, 600E, 600X, i1300, 570, 770Z, T20, T21, T23, T30, T40, T41, T42, T43, T43P, T60, T60P, T61, T61P, T500, W500, W510, X23, X40, X60, X200, X201t
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56 Posts

11-24-2007

Israel

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  • Message 28 of 60

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

2014-08-14, 4:09 AM

As was discovered by a user on the Thinkpad forums, http://support1.lenovo.com seems to be a functioning mirror of the old site. Just keep it online, and the problem is solved. :)

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2253 Posts

01-02-2011

United States of America

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  • Message 29 of 60

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

2014-08-14, 9:43 AM

I noticed today that Lenovo had changed a perfectly functional website in favor of one that is nearly impossible to use. For years if you wanted to look up a computer's specs all you had to do was click on "support" above and enter the MTM or product ID and it listed the basic specs but today if I try this it takes me to a very confusing page that has a a link to search by model, when selected you go to another page where you can enter the model type or product ID, however I have tried over a dozen MTM numbers (with and without hyphen) and nothing works, just says "unable to find, please try again".

 

I don't think anyone really likes change but we tolerate it as long as it works. One anology I can use is imagine if you're rushing to get to work in the morning and you find that your car has been "upgraded", and instead of driving to work you need to get out the manual  and start reading so you can find the steering wheel. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if we asked for it but just imagine if you needed to find out what CPU a thinkpad had and you had someone on hold on the phone waiting for your answer and you're fumbling around with this crazy new website and ultimately just give up!!!

 

Honestly I can say that the new fancy graphics they install on the website might seem like a good way to sell computers but as a customer I can tell you that this type of thing causes a loss in confidence. How can I trust a new computer design to work if their new website design doesn't?   

 

The model I was trying to lookup today was 8939a16, but I've tried many including the popular T60p model 2007ys3 and no matter what mtm I enter I get the sam error message.

 

Can someone tell me where this info can be located on the new website?

 

Moderator Note; subject edited; post merged in. Was; What is going on with Lenovo's website?

ThinkPad W-510 i7-820QM(1.73-3.06GHz) Quad Core... ThinkPad T500, T9900, 8gb SSD...FrankNpad T-60p/61p (X9000 2.8ghz) 8gb SSD ips FlexView...ThinkPad T-61p (T9300 2.5ghz) 8gb ram...Thinkpad X-61 Tablet 8gb ram.
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768 Posts

04-13-2012

Iceland

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  • Message 30 of 60

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

2014-08-14, 10:46 AM

Thank you for that dr_st!!

 

Just got a T61 model 8889 I'm refurbishing, so this was a great help :D

ThinkStation P620 - 3955WX/64GB // ThinkPad X1E Gen3 - i7-10850H/32GB
ThinkPad P1 - i7-8750H/32GB // ThinkPad P70 - Xeon E3-1505M/64GB
ThinkPad W540 - i7-4800MQ/32GB // ThinkPad W520 - i7-2720QM/32GB
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