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JaneL
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Posts: 3,955
Registered: ‎11-20-2007
Location: US
Views: 2,740
Message 31 of 55

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo


Mark_Lenovo wrote:

 

Currenty position is that 7 years of content will be maintained.  This is a rolling 7 year window, and we'll see how absolute we will be on removing the current oldest content (whether it will be monthly, quarterly, or an annual deal).


That is so disappointing.  Lenovo owns an iconic and storied brand with a cult following, and they are throwing away so much good will for what amounts to pocket change for them.  This is a very stupid decision.


keep-calm-it-s-a-thinkpad-sm2.jpg

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Jane
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2015 X1 Carbon, ThinkPad Slate, T410s, X301, X200 Tablet, T60p, HP TouchPad, iPad Air 2, iPhone 5S, IdeaTab A2107A, Yoga Tablet, Yoga 3 Pro
I AM one of those crazy ThinkPad zealots!
If you find a post helpful and it answers your question, please mark it as an "Accepted Solution"!

I am not a Lenovo employee

tonewheels
Not applicable
Posts: 14
Registered: ‎08-13-2014
Location: GB
Views: 2,728
Message 32 of 55

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

I agree with Jane, this is such a bitter dissapointment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In Use: W530, X220T, Miix 3 1030
Retired: 560, 560X, 560Z, 240, 240X, 600E, 600X, i1300, 570, 770Z, T20, T21, T23, T30, T40, T41, T42, T43, T43P, T60, T60P, T61, T61P, T500, W500, W510, X23, X40, X60, X200, X201t
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hausman
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Posts: 2,719
Registered: ‎12-22-2008
Location: CA
Views: 2,693
Message 33 of 55

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo


@Mark_Lenovo wrote:

Currenty position is that 7 years of content will be maintained.  This is a rolling 7 year window, and we'll see how absolute we will be on removing the current oldest content (whether it will be monthly, quarterly, or an annual deal).


Mark, WADR what distinguishes ThinkPad from other brands is its durability compared to ther brands. ThinkPads last well over 7 years. Many older models are still in productive use today, I realize that keeping legacy drivers around for such old models doesn't generate any revenue. I realize too that this is a highly competitive business.

 

But removing support in the hope that it might "encourage" loyal customers to upgrade to new models is a loser's gamble. Frustrate us loyalists enough and you'll just "encourage" us to explore alternatives.

 

How expensive can it be to maintain some zip files of the last set of drivers and utilities for each legacy model. It doesn't have to be fancy. It doesn't have to be maintained. It doesn't have to be supported. It just has to be there.

__________________________________________________
Cheers... Dorian Hausman • ca.gif English community
X1C6, E470, Y900s, [R.I.P. X1C2, T430s, TPT2, SL500, X61s, T60p, A21p, 770, 760ED... 5160, 5150... S360/30]
dr_st
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Posts: 47
Registered: ‎11-24-2007
Location: Israel
Views: 2,684
Message 34 of 55

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo


Well, thanks for sharing but unfortunately that is only going to be a temporary condition.   As part of the transition, the legacy site and infrastructured will be available for a limited time as we work through redirections and any post transition clean up.  As we are not actively maintaining the old site, I would highly recommend customers use the new one.

This is disappointing but unfortunately not surprising. Once an organization establishes a history of coming up with convoluted pointless solutions, while ignoring the simplest and most elegant ones, one grows to expect such things.

 

As I said before - no maintenance of the legacy site would be required whatsoever. Ever. Do you realize how many webpages exist on the internet whose content has not been updated in years, and yet they still remain tremendously useful to certain publics? That's all you had to do with the legacy site. Perhaps with a one-time prune of recent models, to avoid duplicity and confusion. The only costs would be the costs of keeping a server running (hardware and traffic). Negligible costs in the grand total of a company the size of Lenovo, for keeping a lot of old customers happy.

 

Instead your company comes up with crazy schemes like this:


Currenty position is that 7 years of content will be maintained.  This is a rolling 7 year window, and we'll see how absolute we will be on removing the current oldest content (whether it will be monthly, quarterly, or an annual deal).

Do you realize how much pointless and stupid work your organization is placing on your engineers that will have to continue pruning old content, forever, on a monthly/quarterlt/annual/whatever basis? Oh, I'm sure you'll have an automatic system set up to do that (which someone will have to write, maitain, fix bugs in, add manual exceptions every time a big enough customer (whose opinion actually carries weight with the company) complains about something missing? Lots and lots of work, unhappiness to customers - and for what? What benefits and for who? A smaller database, which therefore performs faster? Please. Spend $5000 once every three years and buy a better server. Much cheaper than paying for all the work that will have to be done, even at very modest hourly rates.

 


While 7 years worth of system families are here, we may not currently have 100% of all the detailed model type combinations loaded in the selector taxonomy.   Specefic model types that are probably coming up are those between 5 years and 7 years old, or older than 7 years and are otherwise here by exception.

 

The amount of manual work required to remedy all of these is significant, so we will try to address individual ones that are noted here and seem common / popular.



I am not sure what you mean by taxonomy - is this the search function that matches a 7-character product type to its specs? That should have just been a single database table matching strings to strings, which would never be complicated or slow. But perhaps it's tied up to a whole other things in the back-end, well then I can see how it can be messy.

 

If you are saying that fixing it would require a lot of manual work - this means one thing - someone already messed up big time. Because everything was working just fine before the switch.

 

Mark,

 

I am sorry for my tone here. I know I probably come across as harsh, and more so that I normally allow myself to be. I don't know if you are told frequently enough how great of an asset you are to Lenovo, and how thankful we are to you and to the other Lenovo representatives who post here and mediate for us, the little customers who cannot just get on the phone and reach a high-level executive at Lenovo. Well, let me tell you again: you guys are great. Smiley Happy

 

We all understand that you are not behind these decisions, and have limited ability to influence them. But we are posting here, openly, so that anyone who participates in making those decisions can see the opinions and weigh them accordingly.

 

Final word:

 

In the past few years I have been happy about various things Lenovo did, and unhappy about others. Some design/engineering decisions I liked a lot, some I hated with passion, and talked about it. I understood, though, that others may actually like the things I dislike, and so to them it may be an improvement. So there are always trade-offs. But here we are not talking about a design decision and there is no trade-off. We are talking about something that has the potential of hurting a large group of people and benefitting no one. No doubt some folks may think it will benefit them or someone else, but it just means they did not think it through, and they are wrong.

 

I have been a Thinkpad user for many years, both privately and as an employee of my company which buys them (and others) for their employees. I've started using them before Lenovo purchased the brand, so one can say that I have witnessed the full history of Lenovo Thinkpads, and all the changes/transitions, and I'll say this - if this plan to trash all the legacy knowledge/content comes to pass, it will be the worst thing you have done to Thinkpads in all that history.

 

And that is my opinion on the matter.

 

Cheers.

lead_org
Not applicable
Posts: 21,009
Registered: ‎12-19-2008
Location: Australia, Melbourne
Views: 2,674
Message 35 of 55

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

Hi Mark,

Do you think we can host some of the old drivers through a public website managed by the community. All you need to do is give us the drivers, and maybe we can host it somewhere appropriate for end users with old systems? This maybe a win win situation for both lenovo and end users with old systems (other than Lenovo reversing on their position of hosting old contents).
Regards,

Jin Li

May this year, be the year of 'DO'!

I am a volunteer, and not a paid staff of Lenovo or Microsoft
cbsi_here
Not applicable
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎08-22-2014
Location: Russia
Views: 2,499
Message 36 of 55

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

Thanx for creating "such" thing:

part number :

20DA-S04K00

 

http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/products/search

i5-4210U(2.7GHz)

 

http://support1.lenovo.com/ru_RU/default.page?#

Intel Celeron N2920 (2.00 GHz)

 

And im sure that correct processor for this laptop is N2920.

It is not late to reverse it all.

tonewheels
Not applicable
Posts: 14
Registered: ‎08-13-2014
Location: GB
Views: 2,436
Message 37 of 55

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

Well the new site has been up for a while now and whilst I am up for change and progress I cant help but feel Lenovo has made the biggist blunder in Think history. Deep down, those guys involved in cutting such a rich history of data must know a mistake has been made - its undeniable. The long hours, the huge amount of people involved in the work that has been lost...just gone. What a legacy for this particular team to leave.

 

If its not too late please reconsider.

 

Not only to protect the history you have adopted, and so far have loyally respected and embraced, but because it shows a complete lack of understanding of your customers and what leads us to keep buying into Think products. Many of us have been loyal customers for two decades.

 

We want to be able to search older products by model type

We want to be able to restore a vintage laptop into as new condition

We want to check the specifications of a used machine quickly

We want to be able to repair and maintain our customers legacy products (so when they do buy new it will be a new Think product) as well as our family and friends Think Products

We want you to continue to be the guardians of your own history.

 

So before deleting the 12,000 documents forever please do some soul searching. What you do next wont be forgotten by your customers in  a hurry.

 

 

In Use: W530, X220T, Miix 3 1030
Retired: 560, 560X, 560Z, 240, 240X, 600E, 600X, i1300, 570, 770Z, T20, T21, T23, T30, T40, T41, T42, T43, T43P, T60, T60P, T61, T61P, T500, W500, W510, X23, X40, X60, X200, X201t
smithee68
Not applicable
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎08-23-2014
Location: USA
Views: 2,415
Message 38 of 55

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

I'm going to register my disappointment as well.  I just came back to this site after a long absence and wasted much time feeling very frustrated looking for info/data/drivers/etc on the T6x series devices.   I know several that still have those and you would be doing a great disservice to just dump that data.  It doesn't need to be maintained, just retained. It's static and I can't see why it should be scrapped.

 

 

TuuS
Not applicable
Posts: 2,220
Registered: ‎01-02-2011
Location: US
Views: 2,384
Message 39 of 55

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

This could be the last straw...   the thinkpad fanatics such as myself have been loyal to the brand for decades and although we don't expect you to issue updated for 10-20yo comptuers we do expect you to host the drivers to make the things work. This has always been a standard in the insudtry, in fact I have an NEC Versa 6000 that I purchased in 1995 and I wanted to fix it up to play some classic games and even though NEC stopped making laptops long ago, they still had all the drivers available online. I was even able to get a bios update from them to let me install 80mb ram in this dinosaur that was previously maxed out at 16mb. If this small time company can support the products they sold 20 years ago why can't the worlds premere laptop brand do even more. In fact I was even able to get someone on the phone at NEC who after some giggling over the fact that I wanted to fix up this dino was willing to tell me what kind of ram to look for and what firmware was needed to make it work. 

 

I'll also add that I tried several times to do something as simple as look up the specs for a laptop. I needed to do some work on an X61 and a W500 and I couldn't even figure out what screen options they had, let alone the cpu model or any other specs. Lenovo had a completely functional website and the cost to keep it online would have been trivial...   

 

It's very sad to see my favorite line of laptops destroyed like this...   very sad indeed

ThinkPad W-510 i7-820QM(1.73-3.06GHz) Quad Core... ThinkPad T500, T9900, 8gb SSD...FrankNpad T-60p/61p (X9000 2.8ghz) 8gb SSD ips FlexView...ThinkPad T-61p (T9300 2.5ghz) 8gb ram...Thinkpad X-61 Tablet 8gb ram.
pkiff
Not applicable
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎11-30-2007
Location: CA
Views: 2,294
Message 40 of 55

Re: A change is coming - next chapter in e-support at Lenovo

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