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davidalejandro
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Registered: ‎10-22-2016
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Message 1 of 17

Top Fastest SSD (M.2/SATA) options for Y700-15ISK

Hello,

 

Can you please recommend top 3 fastest SSD's for Y700-15ISK? If you could provide M.2 as well as SATA options that would be great.

 

My laptop is 80NW001TLM.

 

I'm looking at this one, but based on Benchmarks it looks like it's pretty average? Or is it OK?: Crucial MX200 500GB M.2 Type 2280 SATA 6Gb/s Internal Solid State Drive (CT500MX200SSD4) (555 MB/s)

 

 

Regards,

David

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Message 2 of 17

Re: Top Fastest SSD (M.2/SATA) options for Y700-15ISK

Hi davidalejandro , 

 

Greetings. 

 

As per OEM compatible storage listed for Y700-15ISK  (page 78-79) :

 

12 SSD, Liteon CV1-8B128 128GB M.2 SSD 5SD0J21066 

12 SSD, Samsung MZNLN256HCHP M.2 256GB SSD 5SD0H00092

12 SSD, Liteon CV1-8B256 256GB M.2 SSD 5SD0J21061 

12 SSD, Samsung MZNLN512HCJH M.2 512GB  SSD 5SD0H00095 

12 SSD, Liteon CV1-8B512 512GB M.2 SSD 5SD0J21063

12 SSD, Samsung MZVLV128HCGR 128GB M.2 PCIE SSD 5SD0J46480 

12 SSD, Samsung MZVLV256HCHP 256GB M.2 PCIE SSD 5SD0J46479 

12 SSD, Samsung MZVLV512HCJH 512GB M.2 PCIE SSD 5SD0J46481 

 

14 Hard disk drive, ST500LT012 6G 7mm 5.4K 500G HDD 16200383 

14 Hard disk drive, WD5000LPCX-24VHAT0 7mm 5400rpm 500G HDD 5H20J35762 

14 Hard disk drive, WD10SPCX-24HWST1 6G 7mm 1T HDD 16200554 

14 Hard disk drive, TSB MQ02ABF100 6G 1TB 5H20G09709 

14 Hard disk drive, WD10S21X-24R1BT0 7mm 5400rpm 1TB+8G SSHD 16200681

14 Hard disk drive, Jaguar B7 Refresh (6G) HTS545050A7E660 6G 7mm 5.4K 500G HDD 5H20H14223 

14 Hard disk drive, MQ01ABF050 6G 7mm 5.4K 500G HDD 16200433 

14 Hard disk drive, HTS541010A7E630 7mm 5400rpm 1T HDD 16200658

 

List can be narrowed down depending on which capacity you need to check on common benchmarks for each brand as the BIOS compatibility are also considered specially for an OEM machine. 

 

Regards



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davidalejandro
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Message 3 of 17

Re: Top Fastest SSD (M.2/SATA) options for Y700-15ISK

Hey Spidey,

 

Thanks! 

 

I went through the SSD's and this looks like the fastest available for the Y700 list, would you agree?:

 

MZVLV512HCJH

 

Model PM951

Interface PCI Express Gen3 x4

Form Factor M.2

Capacity 512GB

Sequential Read Up to 1,050MB/s

Sequential Write Up to 560MB/s

Random Read Up to 250K IOPS

Random Write Up to 144K IOPS

 

Also, I see this is PCI-e 3.0 x 4, is the Y700 capable of handling it?

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Message 4 of 17

Re: Top Fastest SSD (M.2/SATA) options for Y700-15ISK

Hi davidalejandro , 

 

Greetings. 

 

MZVLV512HCJH  would be the best candidate so far with compatibility and speed basing on the FRU listings.

 

Noted on some discussions that (may not provide a PCIE speed but with regular M.2 as per this thread).

 

Regards



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davidalejandro
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Message 5 of 17

Re: Top Fastest SSD (M.2/SATA) options for Y700-15ISK

Hello Spidey,

 

Based on those threads, it looks like Y700-ACZ models don't support NVME, which is used by faster SSD's than the one I chose in my previous post. Y700-ISK Intel based models do support it.

 

After careful reading and comparing I have chosen this M.2 SSD as it is by far the fastest SSD I have seen on my research for this laptop, plus it is insulated:

 

950 PRO NVMe M.2 SSD

MZ-VKV512

 

Here's the specs of the top 3 SSD's I found for anyone looking to buy a M.2. SSD for their Y700-15ISK laptop (top to bottom, 1nd, 2nd, 3rd).

 

Commercial model:950 PRO NVMe M.2 SSD
Model:MZ-VKV512
Price:$338.23
Currency:USD
Buy from:https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-950-PRO-Internal-MZ-V5P512BW/dp/B01639694M
Sequential Read:Up to 2,500MB/s
Sequential Write:Up to 1,500MB/s
Random read:Up to 300,000 IOPS
Random write:Up to 110,000 IOPS
Forum post:https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/forums/v3_1/forumtopicpage/board-id/ll04_en/page/2/thread-id/132908
Poster:orbi
SSD URL:http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/memory-storage/ssd/950-pro/MZ-V5P512BW
SSD URL2:http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/product/consumer/950pro.html
NVME/AHCI (only)NVME
TRIM support:Yes
Capacity:512 GB
Form factor:M.2
Interface:PCIe 3.0 x4 (up to 32Gb/s) NVMe 1.1
Notes:Fastest. This guy bought this one and calls it Speedy Gonzalez. Insulated for a bit $ more. Says it worked with NVME.

 

 

Commercial model:SM951
Model:MZVPV512HDGL
Price:$300
Currency:USD
Buy from:https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-SM951-512GB-NVMe-MZVPV512HDGL-00000/dp/B015CWR4M2
Sequential Read:Up to 2,150MB/s
Sequential Write:Up to 1,550MB/s
Random read:Up to 300,000 IOPS
Random write:Up to 100,000 IOPS
Forum post:https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/forums/v3_1/forumtopicpage/board-id/ll04_en/page/2/thread-id/132908
Poster:orbi
SSD URL:http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/products/flash-storage/client-ssd/MZVPV512HDGL?ia=831
SSD URL2:N/A
NVME/AHCI (only) 
TRIM support: 
Capacity:512 GB
Form factor:M.2
Interface:PCI Express Gen3 x4
Notes:2nd faster

 

Commercial model:PM951
Model:MZVLV512HCJH
Price:$188
Currency:USD
Buy from: 
Sequential Read:Up to 1,050MB/s
Sequential Write:Up to 560MB/s
Random read:Up to 250,000 IOPS
Random write:Up to 144,000 IOPS
Forum post:https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/forums/v3_1/forumtopicpage/board-id/ll04_en/page/2/thread-id/132908
Poster:orbi
SSD URL:http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/products/flash-storage/client-ssd/MZVLV512HCJH?ia=831
SSD URL2:N/A
NVME/AHCI (only)NVME
TRIM support: 
Capacity:512 GB
Form factor:M.2
Interface:PCI Express Gen3 x4
Notes:Noted on some discussions that this SSD may not provide a PCIE speed but regular M.2 instead. However, this comment was for Y700-15ACZ, not for 15ISK.

 

 

Notes:
Seems like ACZ models don't support NVME, just AHCL

 

Thanks a lot Spidey!

 

Regards,

David

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Message 6 of 17

Re: Top Fastest SSD (M.2/SATA) options for Y700-15ISK


@davidalejandro wrote:

After careful reading and comparing I have chosen this M.2 SSD as it is by far the fastest SSD I have seen on my research for this laptop, plus it is insulated:

 

950 PRO NVMe M.2 SSD

MZ-VKV512


Those certainly are some very fast SSDs.  The problem is that you are unlikely to get anywhere near those speeds once installed in a laptop.  The following post and the several subsequent ones may be of interest:

 

https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/forums/v3_1/forumtopicpage/board-id/ll04_en/thread-id/148105/page/2

 

The problem is inadequate cooling, resulting in thermal limiting.  The maximum write speed that I got was 158 MByte/sec (nowhere near the values the specifications state).

 

It seems to me that the most important factor for a laptop (and the one that you should use to choose an SSD) is the amount of power that it consumes -- less power consumed will result in less heat generated, and hence less thermal limiting.

 

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

davidalejandro
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Message 7 of 17

Re: Top Fastest SSD (M.2/SATA) options for Y700-15ISK

@CyberSimian wrote:

 The problem is inadequate cooling, resulting in thermal limiting.  The maximum write speed that I got was 158 MByte/sec (nowhere near the values the specifications state).

 


Hi CyberSimian,

 

Now that is interesting, I have taken note of the average/idle power consumption on my 3 options. The 950 PRO having 5.7W/70mW vs SM951 6.5W/50mW (the one you have). It seems the difference is not that big. Keep in mind the 950 PRO is insulated too.

 

I've done more research on this topic (thermal throttling), specifically for the 950 PRO. It seemed strange that you got such low speeds when this guy over here got these speeds on their Y700-15ISK:

 

CrystalDiskMark

 

Now it still low compared to what it should be giving but it's still higher than what you report on your SM951. The low speeds on the 950 PRO most probably being due to BIOS DMI locked at 2.0 speeds.

 

One thing to notice is that the SM951 is OEM and the 950 PRO is retail, so it gets Samsung NVMe drivers, while the SM951 falls back to Microsoft's built-in NVMe drivers which can reduce up to 30% of performance.

 

Regarding thermal throttle on the SM 950, it seems like it does throttle quite a bit if no cooling method is provided:

 

Ideal (no system load) results      
Single GPUDual GPU       
Bottom M.2 SlotThrottled by ~40% after ~50-60 secThrottled by ~60% after ~30 sec
Top M.2 SlotThrottled by ~45% after ~45-50 secThrottled by ~55% after ~35 sec
Upright M.2 SlotThrottled by ~42% after ~65-70 secThrottled by ~42% after ~65 sec
Underside M.2 SlotThrottled by ~48% after ~53-58 secN/A  
         
Worst case (heavy system load) results     
Single GPUDual GPU      
Bottom M.2 SlotThrottled by ~52% after ~40 sec    
Top M.2 SlotThrottled by ~50% after ~25 sec    
Upright M.2 SlotThrottled by ~48% after ~55 sec    
Underside M.2 SlotThrottled by ~70% after ~25 sec    

 

However, the above article, and some others do note that it is uncommon to use a drive that fast and to the same extent as used on the throttling tests, as often the drive will have to regularly wait on the CPU or some other component to process data. So basically under normal usage you'll never push the drive hard enough to make it throttle.

 

This article notes as well that you would have to write nearly 150GB at over 1.5GB/sec to get a 950 PRO to warm up enough to throttle, and when it does, the throttling is very minor, dropping to only 1.2GB/sec intermittently. The slightest airflow prevents this from happening at all, and even if there was zero airflow, the chances of maxing a 950 PRO out on writes for that long of a burst is extremely unlikely in even the most demanding consumer usage scenario.


950%20PRO%20worst%20case%20throttle

 

And this other article indicates: But really, I would wager that a large portion of computer users would never push their system hard enough to hit the thermal limits. Lets say that there was a laptop using the 950 Pro SSD, and that it was on par with the worst situations shown above. In the roughly 30 seconds you have of full performance before the drive starts to throttle, you could read 75GB of data or write 45GB. Those are both very large amounts, and average computer users probably don't do anything that involves such extended rear or write sessions. Enthusiasts and professionals can, though, in more demanding workloads... and they are the folks we had in mind when putting together this testing. 

 

Now I did some research on cooling and test showed that providing a cooling method allowed the drive to take 3-5 times longer to throttle and after throttling was 50% faster than stock 950 PRO as summarized in this article: ...this is a much bigger difference than we expected and means you could read 455GB of data (nearly the entire drive) or write 172GB of data continuously before you saw any drop in performance.

  

Now there's a solution I found and liked for solving 950 PRO thermal throttling when it does and it this is using a thermal pad and some copper shims to transfer heat, though I'm not sure how well you could do this for the Y700:

 

With the Lini PC custom thermal solution in place on the Lini 1S with a 512GB Samsung 950 Pro it is possible to see this drive running at 100% capacity across the board.

 

Unlike the first run of the ATTO Disk Benchmark this time transfer rates never drop beneath their 2500MB/s read and 1500MB/s maximums.

 

Looking at AIDA64 the drive is now reporting a temperature of only 47C at the end of the run as opposed to being thermally throttled at 74C.

 

With our custom thermal solution we were able to reduce peak operating temperatures by 37% and keep the drive running at full speed while at a comfortable 47 degrees Celsius.

 

samsung-950-pro-copper-shim_grande

   

DSC0562_grande

  DSC0563_grande

 samsung-950-pro-lini-1s-custom-thermal-solution_grande

 

Now, while researching the 950 PRO, I found out that the 960 PRO is coming out this December and this article mentions that: Not only is the raw performance of the drive better, but Samsung has greatly improved how long the drive can handle heavy loads before throttling. It is still certainly possible to cause the drive to throttle eventually, but it takes long enough to do so that the vast majority of users would never encounter it. 

 

Also, some comments over here indicates that the 950 Pro, and 960 Pro/Evo are all M keyed, so they should fit the Y700-15ISK. 

 

If so, I'm really looking forward to buying the 960 PRO, the 500GB version is $249 right now in Amazon so it's definitely worth a look.

 

Conclusion:

 

I think that thermal throttling might not be that big of an issue for a casual user like me, also, BIOS and driver updates might help speed this up in the future, and being a retail product it would get more support over the long run. 

 

So I'm looking to buying the 960 PRO due to it being faster and taking longer to reach thermal throttle.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

 

Regards,

David

 

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Message 8 of 17

Re: Top Fastest SSD (M.2/SATA) options for Y700-15ISK


@davidalejandro wrote:

I think that thermal throttling might not be that big of an issue for a casual user like me, also, BIOS and driver updates might help speed this up in the future, and being a retail product it would get more support over the long run.


Thank you for a very interesting post. Smiley Happy

 

In the one external review that I had looked at previously (the "LegitReviews" one quoted in the other thread), there was some suggestion that laptop manufacturers install custom firmware in the SSDs that they fit as standard equipment, and that Lenovo SSDs have a reputation for "premature" thermal throttling (presumably required because of inadequate cooling inside the laptop).  This might explain the poor results that I obtained (the SSD in my laptop was standard equipment for my model).  SSDs purchased on the retail market won't have this custom firmware, so may have less aggressive thermal throttling.

 

I did try both the default Microsoft driver, and the Samsung driver.  Although the Samsung driver was faster in every case, the differences were small.

 

I think that the point about type of use is a good one -- most users won't use their SSDs in ways that cause severe thermal throttling, but of course that type of use is not what the disk test programs measure.

 

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

davidalejandro
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Message 9 of 17

Re: Top Fastest SSD (M.2/SATA) options for Y700-15ISK

Hi,

 

I'm strongly leaning on the Samsung 960 series, but I'm not sure if I should get the EVO or the PRO.

 

Would anyone think that other components might bottleneck the PRO?

 

 

Regards,

David


DancoMKD
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Message 10 of 17

Re: Top Fastest SSD (M.2/SATA) options for Y700-15ISK

Hi

 

I think at the moment with this bios we are limited to capped speeds. 

No point buying 960 PRO. 

 

I installed Samsung 960 EVO 500gb in Y700-ISK.

See CrystalDiskMark 5 results.

 

I hope Lenovo will fix the bios.

 

960Evo500gb.png

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