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Y-700 UEFI Dual Boot Windows 10 and Windows 7 x64 on SSD Drive? Already Dual Booting on Hard Drive

2016-12-14, 6:54 AM

Hi all,

 

So I just got my replacement y-700. It comes with a 128gb SSD drive. It has windows 10 installed. I want to dual boot and want a copy of windows 7 also on the ssd drive. I have sucessfully installed dual boot on the internal hard drive. Can't replicate on the SSD.

 

Steps so far:

- Shrunk Windows 10 to make space for windows 7

- Bios is set to "Legacy Support", "UEFI First", USB Legacy "enabled". Secure boot doesn't show up when you pick legacy support.

- I am able to boot with my windows 7 usb stick (my usb drivers are installed) but when I get to the empty partition to install, I get the “Setup was unable to create a new system partition or locate an existing system partition”

- So then in the same menu I deleted the empty partition, and then windows gave me this isn't the recommended order to install. But went ahead to see what happened. Files started installing but at the end got an unable error.

 

So what did I miss? I have the internal drive dual booting no problem.

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Re: Y-700 UEFI Dual Boot Windows 10 and Windows 7 x64 on SSD Drive? Already Dual Booting on Hard Dri

2016-12-14, 12:06 PM

wrote:

- I am able to boot with my windows 7 usb stick (my usb drivers are installed) but when I get to the empty partition to install, I get the “Setup was unable to create a new system partition or locate an existing system partition”


I currently have my Windows 7 drive on the HDD, with Windows 10 on the SSD.  So I have not yet tried what you are trying to do.  However...

 

In order for Windows 7 to see the SSD (which is an NVMe one), it was necessary to install the Samsung driver.  If you are trying to install Windows 7 from a USB memory stick onto the SSD, you will need to add the Samsung driver to the USB memory stick (in the same way that you did for the USB drivers).

 

Caution: I have not yet tried running Windows 7 from the SSD, so there may be other difficulties getting it to work.

 

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

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Re: Y-700 UEFI Dual Boot Windows 10 and Windows 7 x64 on SSD Drive? Already Dual Booting on Hard Dri

2016-12-14, 12:21 PM

Thanks for the reply CyberSimian,

 

I was starting to also think that I might need the Samsung driver for the ssd. But then again I can physically see the partitions in Windows 7 installer screen which has me questioning that logic as well. 

 

Found the Samsung drivers here,

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/minisite/SSD/global/html/support/downloads.html

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Re: Y-700 UEFI Dual Boot Windows 10 and Windows 7 x64 on SSD Drive? Already Dual Booting on Hard Dri

2016-12-15, 5:11 AM

So I tried to install the NVMe drivers from the samsung link above on my windows 10 install. It said that it could not find a valid ssd drive. I don't see anywhere where I can get the NVMe drivers as of right now.

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Re: Y-700 UEFI Dual Boot Windows 10 and Windows 7 x64 on SSD Drive? Already Dual Booting on Hard Dri

2016-12-15, 10:31 AM

wrote:

So I tried to install the NVMe drivers from the samsung link above on my windows 10 install. It said that it could not find a valid ssd drive. I don't see anywhere where I can get the NVMe drivers as of right now.


I am not an expert, but I was under the impression that the M.2 socket in the laptop is of a type that can utilise either a SATA SSD or an NVMe SSD.  If the NVMe driver does not see the SSD, perhaps it is a SATA SSD?  (This might also explain why the Windows 7 installer was aware of the disk.)

 

My laptop came pre-installed with the SSD, and when I look in Windows 10 "Device Manager" in the "Disk drives" section, the disk has "NVMe" as part of its name.  What does your show?  It is also possible that your particular laptop has been fitted with an SSD made by another manufacturer (so you may need different drivers).

 

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

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Re: Y-700 UEFI Dual Boot Windows 10 and Windows 7 x64 on SSD Drive? Already Dual Booting on Hard Dri

2016-12-15, 15:49 PM

wrote:

Hi all,

 

So I just got my replacement y-700. It comes with a 128gb SSD drive. It has windows 10 installed. I want to dual boot and want a copy of windows 7 also on the ssd drive. I have sucessfully installed dual boot on the internal hard drive. Can't replicate on the SSD.

 

Steps so far:

- Shrunk Windows 10 to make space for windows 7

- Bios is set to "Legacy Support", "UEFI First", USB Legacy "enabled". Secure boot doesn't show up when you pick legacy support.

- I am able to boot with my windows 7 usb stick (my usb drivers are installed) but when I get to the empty partition to install, I get the “Setup was unable to create a new system partition or locate an existing system partition”

- So then in the same menu I deleted the empty partition, and then windows gave me this isn't the recommended order to install. But went ahead to see what happened. Files started installing but at the end got an unable error.

 

So what did I miss? I have the internal drive dual booting no problem.


I have'nt tried it but it might be possible to use VHD boot. What I have tried is dualboot Win 8.1 and Win 10 (created first in vhd).

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  • Message 7 of 13

Re: Y-700 UEFI Dual Boot Windows 10 and Windows 7 x64 on SSD Drive? Already Dual Booting on Hard Dri

2016-12-15, 17:55 PM

So i was able to get windows 7 installed last night on the ssd after a few different avenues of action. I'll replicated tonight and come back with details. I'm going to need to disconnect my hd and just install both os onto the ssd. Reason being that the auto recovery and EFI hidden partitions are showing up on the hd.

 

Cyber, this is an interesting point. I took a look at my windows 10 and then my windows 7 install to see what i was seeing after i was successful in the device manager. Both showing similar drivers.

 

Also included shot of storage controller but don't think it's related.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Re: Y-700 UEFI Dual Boot Windows 10 and Windows 7 x64 on SSD Drive? Already Dual Booting on Hard Dri

2016-12-15, 18:37 PM

wrote:

Cyber, this is an interesting point. I took a look at my windows 10 and then my windows 7 install to see what i was seeing after i was successful in the device manager. Both showing similar drivers.   Also included shot of storage controller but don't think it's related.


It is as I surmised.  Your Samsung MZNTY128HDHP is a SATA M.2 SSD.  Look at the "Interface" box on the first line of the "Specifications" section:

 

http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/products/flash-storage/client-ssd/MZNTY128HDHP?ia=831

 

My Ideapad 700-15ISK (not a Y700) was supplied with a Samsung MZVLV128HCGR, which is an NVMe M.2 SSD:

 

http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/products/flash-storage/client-ssd/MZVLV128HCGR?ia=831

 

So that explains why you could not install the NVMe drivers, and why the Windows 7 installer was aware of the SSD.  Well done on getting a usable Windows 7 installation on the SSD (there always seems to be a bit of trial and error with tasks like this). :smileyhappy:

 

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

 

 

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Re: Y-700 UEFI Dual Boot Windows 10 and Windows 7 x64 on SSD Drive? Already Dual Booting on Hard Dri

2016-12-16, 4:42 AM

Thanks for the info CyberSimian! Totally get it now.

So trying to do this all fresh so I can backup. I disconnected the internal HD so as to make sure the recovery partitions are solely on the SD. Installed windows 10 and then went to install windows 7 and I am getting the,

 

"The partitions on the disk selected for installation are not in the recommended order. For additional information about installing to GPT disks"

 

Which makes zero sense since this is the exact procedure I did on the HD originally. I am seeing the error online but not seeing a solution.

 

UPDATE:

So I decided to install windows 7 first. I wiped the drive and installed. NOW in the most BIZZAR twist, while installing the Y700 Windows 7 x64 drivers, most of the intel drivers REQUIRE .net 4.5. I know you mentioned this in another thread CyberSimian. BUT how the heck was I able to install windows x64 on the secondary partition originally and NOT have to install .net??? Holly cow what a twist. I didn't install .Net on my previous install. 

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  • Message 10 of 13

Re: Y-700 UEFI Dual Boot Windows 10 and Windows 7 x64 on SSD Drive? Already Dual Booting on Hard Dri

2016-12-16, 10:07 AM

wrote:

So I decided to install windows 7 first. I wiped the drive and installed. NOW in the most BIZZAR twist, while installing the Y700 Windows 7 x64 drivers, most of the intel drivers REQUIRE .net 4.5. I know you mentioned this in another thread CyberSimian. BUT how the heck was I able to install windows x64 on the secondary partition originally and NOT have to install .net??? Holly cow what a twist. I didn't install .Net on my previous install. 


My dual-boot setup is a bit different from yours, as I wanted to use the Terabyte "Bootit Bare Metal" boot manager (not freeware), and that requires converting the disks from GPT to MBR.  So my experience with GPT disks is limited.

 

I think that you can install multiple operating systems in a GPT system, and use the Windows boot manager to select the OS to boot.  But you almost certainly need to install the older OS first.  Windows 10 knows what setup Windows 7 used, and so Windows 10 can adjust its own installation to fit in with Windows 7.  But Windows 7 does not know what setup Windows 10 uses, and that probably caused the error that you encountered.

 

One point to keep in mind: when you use the Windows Boot Manager, the operating systems are able to see each others disks.  I think that this results in the following (not 100% sure):

 

(1) Only one OS will be on the "C:" drive; the other OS will be "D:" (or some other letter).

 

(2) Each OS can "fiddle with" the files belonging to the other OS.  I recollect reading on the internet (so it must be true!) that one OS would delete the restore points belonging to the other OS, which is not the behaviour that I would want.

 

(3) Presumably certain programs (such as the Intel installer) can use programs installed on the other OS drive, and that it why the Intel installer did not ask for .NET 4.5 when you were installing drivers on Windows 7 with Windows 10 already installed.

 

I am not a fan of this style of dual-boot or multi-boot management, which is why I prefer "Bootit Bare Metal" (BIBM).  Using BIBM's EMBRs, each OS can be kept totally separate.  Each OS installs on its own "C:" drive, and is prevented from seeing any partitions that you don't want it to see (such as partitions belonging to the other OS).  But BIBM is not freeware, and it does require some careful setup (to avoid partitions being overwritten).

 

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

 

 

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  • Message 11 of 13

Re: Y-700 UEFI Dual Boot Windows 10 and Windows 7 x64 on SSD Drive? Already Dual Booting on Hard Dri

2016-12-16, 12:48 PM

One other point: after I received my 700-15ISK, the first thing that I did after initial setup was to create the Windows 10 Recovery USB memory stick.  I played around with Windows 10 for several weeks, and re-installed Windows 10 several times.

 

If you install Windows 7 first, and then try to install Windows 10 from the Recovery memory stick, the Windows 10 installation process will delete your Windows 7 installation. :smileymad:  I browsed around the memory stick, and came across a script for "diskpart.exe".  It looks as though the installation process uses this script to prepare the disk prior to the installation of Windows 10.  The very first thing that this script does is to delete all of the existing partitions on the disk, and set the disk to GPT.  This is intended to recreate the setup as built by the manufacturer.  That is fine for most users, but is not what you want in your case.

 

Two alternatives:

 

(1) Download the Windows 10 installation image from Microsoft, and use that to install WIndows 10.  This should be capable of recognising the existing Windows 7, but will probably offer to upgrade your Windows 7.  You don't want that -- you want to select the choice that will give you a separate installation.

 

Also, the Windows 10 installed won't have any of the bundled Lenovo applications, although most (all?) of those can probably be downloaded from this web site.

 

Finally, you need to take care to ensure that you don't lose your entitlement to a Windows 10 licence.  Using the preloaded installation, I would connect to the internet and wait for Windows to auto activate.  Once that is done, your laptop's identifcation info is logged in a Microsoft database that confirms that you are entitled to a Windows 10 licence.  Then you can re-install Windows 10 from the image that you downloaded from Microsoft, and it will activate automatically when you connect to the internet. 

 

(2) An alternative is to modify the "diskpart.exe" script to stop it deleting the existing partitions.  However, you may also need to remove the creation of some of the ancillary partitions.  The script will create an EFI partition, a Microsoft reserved partition, the OS partition, and a recovery partition (WINRE).  Probably you want to share the EFI and Microsoft-Reserved partitions with the Windows 7 installation, and have only the WINRE partition in addition to the OS partition.  But this is all guesswork on my part, as I have never tried this way of installing multiple versions of Windows.

 

Also note that re-installing Windows 10 from the memory stick does not recreate the Lenovo-specific partitions, so Lenovo "One Key Recovery" won't work any more.  I don't consider this to be a great loss (I backup the partitions using BIBM), but you may have been intending to use "One Key Recovery".

 

Hmm, lots of things to think about!

 

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

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  • Message 12 of 13

Re: Y-700 UEFI Dual Boot Windows 10 and Windows 7 x64 on SSD Drive? Already Dual Booting on Hard Dri

2016-12-16, 21:16 PM

Hi CyberSimian,

 

Yeah it makes sense to use a third party if what you mentioned is correct. Different boot drives should be seperate. It has in the past with windows so long as you install things indivudually. 

 

I am a little baffled about the .net 4.5 issue right now. I doubt the drivers can be pulled from the other partition, especially since I was installing from the Windows7 usb. Last time I wrote the install process down so I could share but I noticed a gap in these steps. Might have been late night tiredness. Taking notes again this time around, detailed!

 

So last night I disconnected my internal 1tb HD. I then deleted all the partitions on the the 128gb SD drive. Then installed Windows 7. Then installed the 2 MS kb I needed to get .net 4.5 installed. After installing .net, I was able to install all the Lenovo Windows 7 drivers successfully. I will come back on the forums with a full detail for others. 

 

Then I installed windows10. All the drivers etc. So everything on the SSD is working correctly now. I can boot into either windows 7 or windows 10. My plan for tonight is to do the exact same thing for the internal HD. Disconnect the SD drive and install windows 7 then windows 10.

 

Now based on everything you said I wonder but what I am hoping is to reconnect both drives and boot from the SD and hopefully everything is self contained! Then I would in the bios change to boot from the HD and again hope everything is self contained! I want to have both drives work independant of each other incase I am somewhere and the OS gets hosed. I have made several backs up using Acronis along the way. 

 

Hopefully Windows boot manager which is now different then old way of booting stays on the drive its told to boot from. 

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  • Message 13 of 13

Re: Y-700 UEFI Dual Boot Windows 10 and Windows 7 x64 on SSD Drive? Already Dual Booting on Hard Dri

2016-12-17, 11:38 AM

wrote:

Now based on everything you said I wonder but what I am hoping is to reconnect both drives and boot from the SD and hopefully everything is self contained! Then I would in the bios change to boot from the HD and again hope everything is self contained! I want to have both drives work independant of each other incase I am somewhere and the OS gets hosed. I have made several backs up using Acronis along the way.


I think that should work fine.  When you power-on the laptop, the device that boots is the one that is first in the boot list in the BIOS (SSD or HDD).  To boot the other device, use the "Novo" button to get the "Novo Button Menu", and then select "Boot Menu".  On the "Boot Menu" menu, choose the device that you want to boot (this does not cause a permanent change to the boot order).    (But you probably already knew that. :smileyhappy:)

 

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

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