Keyboard Flex discussion - T400 / T500 / W500 ThinkPad customers

[jeffsteinbok]

Erik,

Thank you.  I have received my T400, and the flex isn't bad.

Haven't played with it much yet.

I do notice some very minor warping on the casing though so it doesn't sit 100% flat, but it's pretty darn close.

[thinkpad4me]

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erik wrote:

thinkpad4me,

you should be able to send a PM after reaching the next user rank.   if you're trying to send mark details on your system then i will make sure he sees your post.   apologies for the inconvenience.

update:  mark has read your PMs.   you should have received responses from him by now.

Message Edited by erik on 12-02-2008 01:38 AM

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Thanks!  I was able to reach him by PM.   I guess 3 posts did the trick.

[cguru]

Hi,

Ok, this issue is definitely widespread enough to reach me. I received my thinkpad today, after weeks, and I'm frustrated. Compared to the T61, my T400 flexes like hell at the left side.

I bought my thinkpad from a lenovo reseller. Which steps do I have to take in order to get my thinkpad fixed?

Do I have to pay for repairing my machine?

Please contact me.

Nice afternoon

cguru

Message Edited by cguru on 12-04-2008 10:55 AM

[wheadley]

It will be tough to get fixed as they are generally in total denial that any of their keyboards have any flex problems at all. Lenovo swaps out different parts for their keyboards and when I ordered a replacement T61 NMB version that should have a solid back-plane I received an identicle craptastic W500 version that flexes like an old bannana peel right out of the box.

This is simple Lenovo-- older T61 series keyboards had a solid back-plane and the newer ones have an open mesh back-plane that's lighter and simply does not get the support it needs inside the notebook frames so it flexes, rattles, bends, and dips where the frame underneath is open-- which is on the left side on some models and the right side on others. On my W700 the flexing is on the left side.

Lenovo seems to be betting on the fact that most customers are used to crappy notebooks with poor quality keyboards and won't notice-- so when some small percentage of us that actually know the difference and expected to get what we paid for from Lenovo complain they repeat what all corporations repeat-- "only a few people have complained of this so it does not appear to be a real problem, etc."

[stealthth]

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wheadley wrote:

It will be tough to get fixed as they are generally in total denial that any of their keyboards have any flex problems at all. Lenovo swaps out different parts for their keyboards and when I ordered a replacement T61 NMB version that should have a solid back-plane I received an identicle craptastic W500 version that flexes like an old bannana peel right out of the box.

This is simple Lenovo-- older T61 series keyboards had a solid back-plane and the newer ones have an open mesh back-plane that's lighter and simply does not get the support it needs inside the notebook frames so it flexes, rattles, bends, and dips where the frame underneath is open-- which is on the left side on some models and the right side on others. On my W700 the flexing is on the left side.

Lenovo seems to be betting on the fact that most customers are used to crappy notebooks with poor quality keyboards and won't notice-- so when some small percentage of us that actually know the difference and expected to get what we paid for from Lenovo complain they repeat what all corporations repeat-- "only a few people have complained of this so it does not appear to be a real problem, etc."

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Sadly, this is true. I have already posted my comments about my T400 so I won't get into it again. Your post does remind me of Fight Club though when Edward Norton is talking about recalling cars. 

"A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."

So if enough people complain maybe Lenovo will do something, if they don't we'll get the response that we are getting now.

[thinkpad4me]

Have either of you PM'd Mark at Lenovo? 

Message Edited by thinkpad4me on 12-05-2008 09:33 AM

[Mark_Lenovo Former Administrator]

Stealth,

Tim_Lenovo will post an official response later today.   Silence doesn't always mean that things are being ignored.

Mark

[Tim_Lenovo · Accepted solution]

Hi folks,

As previously covered in David Hill's blog post, Lenovo implemented a design change to reduce weight of keyboards used in new T/R/W systems. Through forum member feedback on the specific models identified in this thread, and engineering evaluation of field samples vs pre-production models, we have observed tolerance variations in how keyboards are supported on some units.  We believe this is the primary factor of the observed flex symptom.   Lenovo development continues to evaluate and revise the keyboard support infrastructure to realize weight saving potential, while preserving tactile feel.  In the interim, manufacturing has shifted the majority of production to the alternate keyboard design previously used on '61 series systems.

We believe this combination of interim and longer term actions will preserve the solid feel of the keyboards which ThinkPads are well known for.

While not a defect, we understand the feel of the keyboard is very much a matter of personal preference.   Customers who are unhappy with the feel of their keyboards may send Mark_Lenovo a Private Message to arrange receiving a keyboard based on the alternate design (FRU 42T3143 or equivalent P/N for the language required).

To send a private message: Click here to view Mark_Lenovo's profile, then choose "Send this user a private message" under the Contact section of the new page that loads

Please include the following information:

1) Full Name, shipping address, and telephone number
2) ThinkPad MTM and serial number (Click here for details on how to find this information)

I wanted to thank everyone on this forum and the other communities who have participated in this discussion. Your contributions and conversations have helped us better understand the issue and led to changes that will improve the ThinkPad experience for everyone.

EDIT Corrected font size

EDIT 2 Added additional contact information

EDIT 3 Emphasized instructions for new members without PM privileges. 

EDIT 4 Added link to find MTM/serial

EDIT 5 Updated directions to contact Tim.

EDIT 6 Updated directions to contact Mark_Lenovo. 

EDIT 7 - Communication update and sunset of this effort

UPDATE 4/1/09

Effective today as previously noted in this discussion, we are discontinuing this exception effort through the forum.   Begining in March, new systems were built with additional chasis supports on the left side of the system which resolve the noted flex reported by early respondents on this thread and on Lenovoblogs.   This exception process through the forum has run for approximately 3 months and is believed to have run for sufficient duration to have provided the opportunity for those who received early build systems last year and were concerned with the degree of flex in their keyboards to contact us and receive a replacement.  

- Mark

Message Edited by Mark_Lenovo on 04-01-2009 01:42 PM

[spongeduck]

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Tim_Lenovo wrote:

For those who do not have Private Message privileges yet, please post here indicating such and I will contact you via e-mail.

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Hello Tim,

please contact me via eMail.

I wanna buy a t500 (586D136) at

http://www.campusdiscount.de/product_info.php/info/p1836_Thinkpad-T500-586D136.html

having already a new-old, corrected (t61)keyboard inside.
How can I be sure, whether there is already a new-old, corrected (t61)keyboard inside or not?

Can I or the Lenovo partner I am contacting determine whether a t500 is a new corrected one or an old with the keyboard flex?

I just wanna be sure.

Thank you beforehand for your reply, Tim.

Bye

Message Edited by spongeduck on 12-06-2008 12:39 AM

[andyP Retired SuperMod]

spongeduck, welcome to the forum,

Why don't you ask CampusDiscount to do a check through parts lookup to see which keyboard the system has before they send it? It's simple enough and should be no problem for them. You could then check this against the information provided by Tim. Tim cannot influence which ThinkPads CampusDiscount has in stock or receives through a distributor.