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18 Posts

07-17-2011

Chicago

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Re: Is white listing illegal anywhere?

2013-07-07, 0:01 AM

Well, I don't know what anyone's principles are.  I simply offered up a solution those who would actually like to use their computers, rather than make a point which is obviously not being heard.

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18 Posts

07-17-2011

Chicago

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  • Message 62 of 253

Re: There doesn't seem to be an official Lenovo presence here!

2013-07-07, 0:04 AM

You're welcome and same here!

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18 Posts

07-17-2011

Chicago

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Re: Is white listing illegal anywhere?

2013-07-07, 2:54 AM

Trust me, I understand where you are.  It's simply not worth the headache to me anymore.  I only realized the whitelist issue after I'd already ordered my Twist.  I had no such issue with my Lenovo U260.  I replaced the mechanical hard drive and the network adapter with an Intel model in the U260 so I could make it Widi compatible, so I naturally assumed it would be the same with the Twist.  I was pissed at first and like you, years ago, I would have cussed and screamed, written messages/letters/phone calls, etc.  You know what?  After having congestive heart failure, a brother who's dying of cancer, a sister that I take care of with Downs Syndrome...how much importance should I place on not being able to install a network card into my computer? LOL 

 

#Perspective.

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31 Posts

05-22-2013

Norway

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Re: Is white listing illegal anywhere?

2013-07-07, 12:53 PM
I fully understand. There are more important things in life.

Usually I never make any complaints about stuff I buy. The only reason that I`m doing that now, is that I was adviced to buy a intel-based lenovo for the best possible compability with linux, but then ended up with a laptop that`s a pain to get to work properly in linux.

I`m one of those that keep a laptop for more than 10 years, because I don`t like the throw-away mentality, and then I find it really provocing that Lenovo is using whitelists that makes it hard to be "green". The whitelist has no other intention than to reduce a computers lifespan, forcing us to buy new ones, while a simple hardware upgrade would be sufficient..
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2032 Posts

11-28-2007

Czech Republic

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Re: Is white listing illegal anywhere?

2013-07-08, 8:53 AM

wrote:
The whitelist has no other intention than to reduce a computers lifespan, forcing us to buy new ones, while a simple hardware upgrade would be sufficient..

Yes, that was exactly my point.

__________________________________
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8.
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2029 Posts

12-02-2007

Australia

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Re: Is white listing illegal anywhere?

2013-07-07, 1:49 AM
------------------------------
I don't work for Lenovo
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8095 Posts

11-19-2007

United States of America

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  • Message 67 of 253

Re: Is white listing illegal anywhere?

2013-07-08, 17:44 PM

All,

 

I appreciate the desire to swap parts on your PC to optimize it for your use after purchase.

 

I've raised this issue with the product teams previously, and as I understand it, In order to pass FCC certifications (among probably others), Lenovo has to submit each config to FCC for testing, so to manage costs and time, there are a limited number of cards qualified for a particular system.

 

Please consider that this also covers the configs that we have tested and are prepared to support.  I can appreciate the desire to add different cards, and in some cases it works out that the card you may wish to swap out for is also qualified.  In other cases, not.

 

 As having a larger whitelist would increase the cost of the product (increased development cost that would have to be amortized over the number of units produced and sold) would you be willing to pay a premium for a system with a larger white list?   

 

Would you view this as a competitive advantage?  I.e. if Lenovo had a larger and published whitelist, would that influence your decision pro lenovo?   If you are speaking out and saying you won't buy Lenovo in the future because you can't swap in the card of your choice,  which manufacturer sells global models (also sold in US) that are FCC certified?  

 

If you could confirm a competitor - Dell, Acer, HP, Toshiba, Sony model vs comparible Lenovo model and confirm the competitor has an open whitelist, that might be helpful.

 

Thanks

 

Mark

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25 Posts

06-24-2013

Essex, UK

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Re: Is white listing illegal anywhere?

2013-07-08, 18:01 PM

Hi Mark,

 

Thank you for the intervention, it's well appreciated, but I still feel there could be some option within the BIOS that says "Turn this whitelist off at your own risk" etc.

 

My girlfriends Dell Inspiron 1525, took not only the Intel N6205, but also the N6300 - no fuss. I am considering buying a Intel AC 7260 and trying that. My 6 year younger Y580 takes none nor my L412 and I live in the UK. Not to mention I've spent over £80 this month trying different cards; when in fact all I'm trying to do is upgrade a laptop part, which in all normal cases cost very little. 

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773 Posts

06-20-2011

United States of America

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  • Message 69 of 253

Re: Is white listing illegal anywhere?

2013-07-08, 20:44 PM

Mark,

     The real issue is, according to the HMM, my Y470 can support the following cards:

 

WiMAX Intel 6250NX FRU 20002321

WiMAX Intel 6150GX FRU 20002529

WiMAX Intel 6250GX FRU 20002388

 

However, Lenovo will not sell one to me. No where, no way. It's not just a monopoly, it's a conspiracy of incompetence.

 

WHY CAN'T I FIND THESE FRU APPROVED WIRELESS CARDS FOR SALE?

 

Take that question to your "product teams" or "product sales" for some answers. If Lenovo were a real computer manufacturing company, they would have a real parts outlet, where a user could order a real replacement/upgraded wireless card. IBM did. Even when they white listed cards, I could call them, an order a replacement card that met the list. I can't do that through Lenovo.

 

And no, I don't expect an answer from you. Cleo, JaneL, and even you, fell silent when I asked them in this thread:

 

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Feedback-on-the-new-support-site/Support-site-content-is-out-dated-Let-s-discuss/m-p/1073285#M1179

 

The truth is, you don't have an answer for your company's failure to provide adequate "after sales" support for your products.

 

So sad, and so bad.:smileyfrustrated:

 

DragonRider

 

EDIT: Corrected the mod list that didn't answer my query. Removed Andy, added JaneL.

 

_________________________________________________________________________

I'm DO'ing IT

Yoga 900 Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6500U CPU @ 2.50GHz (Skylake-Y)

X1 Carbon 2nd Gen (20A8) ThinkPad/YOGA Tablet 2 Pro-1380F/IdeaCentre A520 All-In-One i5-3230M/Lenovo Y470 i7-2630QM/T420

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19 Posts

12-07-2012

Canada

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  • Message 70 of 253

Re: Is white listing illegal anywhere?

2013-07-09, 6:53 AM

Mark:

 

Your comments ignore most of the points made in this thread, and others, about this practice. Please, do not insult our intelligence.

 

First, your comments do not address the need for a Lenovo-blessed version of an otherwise acceptable card. A regular, FCC approved, Intel 6205 WiFi card would not work in my Thinkpad because of the white list. I needed the one with the Lenovo FRU. Both are built to the same specs. Both are FCC approved. But only the (more expensive and difficult to find) Lenovo-blessed card is white listed. Prove to us that there is some difference.

 

Second, FCC approval is irrelevant to me and to many others who do not live in the U.S. so that argument is specious.

 

Third, the information that white listing even exists is nowhere to be found in the documentation and sales material that Lenovo provides. Only when we try to use the wrong card, do we learn that there is a problem. That practice is underhanded.

 

Fourth, If the practice is above board then why does Lenovo hide it so effectively? If you truly believe it then include it in your specifications and hardware reference manuals so we can learn about the limitations before we run afoul of them.

 

Fifth, if the practice is legitimate, then publish the approved hardware for each product - don't hide that too.

 

Sixth, sell us the required hardware.

 

Seventh, removing the white listing does not even violate FCC regulations. So what purpose does it really serve?

 

Eighth, you need only test and support the devices that you ship with the product. There is absolutely no need for a white list.

 

Ninth, the white listing unnecessarily locks us in to yesterday's technology.

 

Sorry, none of your arguments are in the least convincing.

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