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ceb
WWAN
Posts: 632
Registered: ‎09-09-2012
Location: DC Metro area
Views: 16,057
Message 11 of 228

Re: WWAN and wireless card BIOS whitelists? Lenovo, COME ON.

Correct - but we need to place blame where it belongs - on Lenovo - and call them on it when they try to shift blame where it doesn't belong (in this case to the FCC.)

Puppy
Bit Torrent
Posts: 1,813
Registered: ‎11-28-2007
Location: CZ
Views: 16,052
Message 12 of 228

Re: WWAN and wireless card BIOS whitelists? Lenovo, COME ON.


@ceb wrote:

Correct - but we need to place blame where it belongs - on Lenovo - and call them on it when they try to shift blame where it doesn't belong (in this case to the FCC.)


No way. I have spent time with many comments about WWAN and Lenovo (un)support resulting in deletion of my posts. It is hopeless.

 

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-ThinkPad-Laptops/X220-support-for-4G-LTE-Sierra-Wireless-MC7710...

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-ThinkPad-Laptops/Will-X230-OFFCIALLY-SUPPORT-AirPrime-MC7710/td...

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-Tablet-ThinkPad-Laptops/4G-Support-with-Sierra-Wireless-X220T-f...

 

__________________________________
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8.
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ceb
WWAN
Posts: 632
Registered: ‎09-09-2012
Location: DC Metro area
Views: 16,035
Message 13 of 228

Re: WWAN and wireless card BIOS whitelists? Lenovo, COME ON.


@Puppy wrote:

@ceb wrote:

Correct - but we need to place blame where it belongs - on Lenovo - and call them on it when they try to shift blame where it doesn't belong (in this case to the FCC.)


No way. I have spent time with many comments about WWAN and Lenovo (un)support resulting in deletion of my posts. It is hopeless.

 

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-ThinkPad-Laptops/X220-support-for-4G-LTE-Sierra-Wireless-MC7710...

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-ThinkPad-Laptops/Will-X230-OFFCIALLY-SUPPORT-AirPrime-MC7710/td...

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-Tablet-ThinkPad-Laptops/4G-Support-with-Sierra-Wireless-X220T-f...

 


 

Placing blame on a state regulatory body does not solve the problem. If Lenovo has a legitimate reason for whitelisting (in actuality it is "non-blacklisting" a few products) then Lenovo needs to step up with an explanation that you and I can understand. Making up regulatory reasons doesn't cut it and deleting posts you don't like is just bad business practice.

Community SeniorMod
Community SeniorMod
Posts: 3,163
Registered: ‎12-01-2007
Location: US
Views: 16,011
Message 14 of 228

Re: WWAN and wireless card BIOS whitelists? Lenovo, COME ON.

Hello,

 

It's not actually clear to me that this has anything to do with US law:  It could be that the requirement is from Industry Canada, Ofcom in the UK, or some other regulatory agency in Europe, Latin America, Asia or any other place around the globe.  Or it may be a response to dealing with multiple regulatory agencies around the globe as a means of creating a device which satisfies all of their competing requirements. 

 

I recall that one of the first 802.11n routers I purchased had different firmware for the US and Japanese markets because of different radio spectrum allocations in each country, which is one example of how a technology company dealt with a regulatory issue around Wi-Fi.

 

Are you certain that the issues experienced with the Lenovo ThinkPad Twist (S230u, MT: 3347) are actually related to the wireless hardware?  This could be a software or a firmware issue, and may have nothing to with the card's hardware, antennas, broadcast power or other physical characteristics.  I certainly have not heard anything about the FCC revising its rules on Wi-Fi hardware (which does, after all, operate in the unlicensed spectrum) so I don't think the issue is there.

 

Given what you have shared with me about the problems you have experienced with this new ThinkPad, it sounds to me like this is one of those times where picking up the phone and calling Lenovo to speak to one of their technical support engineers is what's going to solve this for you, as there is only so much troubleshooting which can be done in a web forum by volunteers like myself.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 



I am a volunteer and neither a Lenovo nor a Microsoft employee.

L380 YogaP50 (20EN-*)S230u (3347-4HU)T23 (2648-LU7)T42 (2378-R4U)T43p (2678-H7U)T61p (6459-CTO)W510 (4318-CTO)W530 (2441-4R3)W530 (2441-4R3)X100e (3508-CTO)X120e (0596-CTO)X220 (4286-CTO)X250 (20CM-*)Yoga 370

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ew-linux
Fanfold Paper
Posts: 26
Registered: ‎05-22-2013
Location: Norway
Views: 15,487
Message 15 of 228

Re: WWAN and wireless card BIOS whitelists? Lenovo, COME ON.

Now I`m getting quite pissed. I bought a Lenovo-laptop because I belived it to be linux-friendly, but then I get a pc with a bios that`s so restricted that it`s actually impossible to find. Finally now, I see there are a bios at the lenovo site, but I`m afraid trying it, because then I assume that Lenovo will restrain my pc even more. Perhaps I loose the option to disable secure boot. It wouldn`t surprise me at all. So the new bios I will not try. I want my original bios, but it`s impossible to locate. Therefore I have no download location to provide for the original bios, so that I can request a bios-mod in order to remove the most "unfree" restrictions ever, namely the whitelist. The b43xx wifi card that`s shipped with my pc really sucks.

 

Naive as I was, I bought some suitable intel wifi cards, assuming that they had to be compatible, which they of course also are. But just to discover the whitelist and the ridiculous message "An unauthorized wifi-card is plugged in. Power off and remove it". Who the xxxx do Lenovo think they are. Even the message is provocing and very rude. It`s my pc, and it should be up to me to use whatever hardware I want. it`s ok that something is incompatible and might not work.But it`s a direct provocation that Lenovo blocks hardware that would make my pc work even better. They shouldn`t block anything. If I buy something that doesn`t work or blows up my computer, then that`s my business. Not Lenovos....

 

Finally. Quit trying to rationalise this policy. It`s only HP, Dell, and Lenovo who does this, and the same FCC-regulations applies to all manufactors...

 

I assure you, there are nobody in my country or anywwhere else in Europe that cares a tiny little bit about matching the wifi-cards with the antenna. Maybe people take that kind of BS in the US, but here in Europe you will never get any understanding of this idiotic philosofy. One thing is sure, Lenovo had a rumour of being Linux-friednly, but are now turning to be one of the most unfree brands that exists. I will never ever buy a Lenovo-pc, unless it`s 100% guaranteed that the bios-whitelist is removed..., or at least contains the most common id`s...

 

The only other alternative that`s in the whitelist for my pc, is another wifi-card that`s just as crappy on Linux...

 

Quite frankly, I`ve started warning linux-users and other people that wants a little bit of freedom, against buying Lenovo. Because they are no longer best for linux, and they are more restricted than nearly all other brands. As a linux-user I have never experienced a pc that`s as restricted as this. It`s my first Lenovo-pc, and it will be my last. As soon as I can afford it, I will bang this piece of crap in the wall. Never in a million years will I use a pc where the manufactor orders me to remove a perfectly good wifi-card. Take a hike Lenovo..., this really sucks!

 

Now then, ban me and remove my post. You will not fix this anyway. Greed is in the way, but the greed will kick you in the .... Just wait and see. Lenovo will loose popularity.... 

Puppy
Bit Torrent
Posts: 1,813
Registered: ‎11-28-2007
Location: CZ
Views: 15,436
Message 16 of 228

Re: WWAN and wireless card BIOS whitelists? Lenovo, COME ON.


@ew-linux wrote:

Finally. Quit trying to rationalise this policy. It`s only HP, Dell, and Lenovo who does this, and the same FCC-regulations applies to all manufactors...


It was also my point all the time I have been criticizing this policy. Especially since there are localized configurations that may skip this rules.

 

Lenovo has silently approved more devices this year http://support.lenovo.com/en_GB/guides-and-manuals/detail.page?DocID=UM015721 but for latest .30 models only. I have been whining for Sierra Wireless MC7710 to be approved for X220 (because expanding poor 3G coverage had stopped in 2011 over here and 4G/LTE will be the only reasonable option next years) . Yes, X220 is not the current model but for most long-time Thinkpadders it is unfortunately the last ThinkPad because of the keyboard layout change to 6-row. To approve more up-to-date devices (or just stop the policy at all) I would call an investment protection and I would expect such kind of support for models that are still under warranty. That is why I bought four years extended warranty including Protection service.

 

I would appreciate if a Lenovo representative could step in and explain the policy, especially the argument about FCC rules that applies to all manufacturers but some of them (including Lenovo) make such restrictions only. It turns out that your machine under effective warranty can not use latest technologies just because a blacklist in BIOS and its value is being degraded (while it is proven that the blacklisted wireless device works with unofficial BIOS but this is not the path I would like to go because of warranty void). I don't call that customer support and care, sorry.

__________________________________
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8.
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ew-linux
Fanfold Paper
Posts: 26
Registered: ‎05-22-2013
Location: Norway
Views: 15,356
Message 17 of 228

Re: WWAN and wireless card BIOS whitelists? Lenovo, COME ON.

Personally I don`t care about the warranty, and I would of course accept to loose my guarantee if I change hardware-parts myself. I`m kind of a linux and tech-geek, and I do so much with my laptops that I would never ever consider claiming any warranty.

The latest .30 models probably doesn`t help me, because this is a Lenovo G580(2189). The only other card I`ve found that`s present in the whitelist is Atheros AR5B95, and that doesn`t suite me. Its questionable if it works ootb with LInux, and the whole point for me is to get a a wifi card that`s easy to configuer and works well with linux. I do get the b43xx to work, but it`s manual configuration everytime I install a new distro, and that`s pretty much all the time.Besides, the only driver I get to work in linux is WL, and it doesn`t perform to well.

I want to use Intel Wifi Link 1000, because I have bought two of them..., and I never ever thought there could be such a thing as bios-blocking of wifi-cards. Probably because I `ve never had HP, Lenovo or Dell before. With the exception of a old T40 i got my hands on, but now I understand why it was impossible to find a wifi-card that would work. I thought there was something wrong with the connector or the mainboard, but it probably was just a whitelist-issue.

Well, I will have to find a way out of this, perhaps I will have to settle with a usb-dongle...
ybbmadysu
Fanfold Paper
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎06-03-2013
Location: Orange County, CA
Views: 15,221
Message 18 of 228

Re: WWAN and wireless card BIOS whitelists? Lenovo, COME ON.

I have been trying for a long while now to mod my BIOS to remove all Whitelists. I have been to the forums for help. I do NOT care about this warranty (LENOVO STAFF, PM me or email me and gather my order details. Give me a WL free bios in exchange for no-more-warranty). This whitelist issue is such [mod edit] I am extremely [mod edit] with Lenovo for this. If my next attempt at bios modding fails AND Lenovo fails to provide a proper bios. This new laptop will become a [mod edit] target for my shotgun. There is absolutely no justifiable reason for this. As other here have stated, there are no laws that force Lenovo to block the use of any part as the same laws would apply to all electronics imported/sold in the US. Its just a horrible way to [mod edit] more money out of us. Yes I said [mod edit] I am screaming NO and your still [mod edit]

Yep, time to go buy another MacBook Pro. Put my money into a better company. Maybe its time to post a list of MFG's that do not [mod edit] (whitelist specific) their customers. Yes Apple is very expensive, but I must say that I have never been [mod edit]  by them with any ridiculous limitations.

 

Thank you all very much for your time and energy in our battle.

Brad

 

Almost forgot to mention, its an E530 (3259)

 

Moderator comment: Coarse language removed. Continued use of same will result in posts being removed. Community Rules.

ew-linux
Fanfold Paper
Posts: 26
Registered: ‎05-22-2013
Location: Norway
Views: 15,206
Message 19 of 228

Re: WWAN and wireless card BIOS whitelists? Lenovo, COME ON.

I couldn`t agree more. Because of this I will never buy a Lenovo again. Restraining me from using better wifi cards, and even worse, doesn`t guide me to anything usable. So I`m stuck with the crappy Broadcom card, or using a wifi-dongle instead. I see that another linux-unfriendly card is accepted, but that doesn`t help to much. Lenovo should at least accept the most common intel and realtek-cards, as they aare superior compared to the broadcom and atheros-crap.
Puppy
Bit Torrent
Posts: 1,813
Registered: ‎11-28-2007
Location: CZ
Views: 15,192
Message 20 of 228

Re: WWAN and wireless card BIOS whitelists? Lenovo, COME ON.

I do care about warranty and I bought the extended Protection one because of motherboard and display. I don't understand why non-blacklisted BIOS provided by Lenovo should void the warranty ? Other manufacturers provides both warranty and wireless devices choice freedom.

 

I do understand there won't be Lenovo support for non-Lenovo-approved wireless components/devices. That's fair. On the other hand, even for Lenovo approved and branded WWAN devices the extended warranty does not apply if bought separately.

__________________________________
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8.
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