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MINATO07
SCSI Port
Posts: 34
Registered: ‎10-21-2018
Location: IN
Views: 3,040
Message 11 of 207

Re: Ideapad 330 Ryzen 5 2500u underperforming

yup Smiley Sad they just don't care , they are just forcing the apu for low performance , thats ridiculous.
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Longhorn87
SCSI Port
Posts: 45
Registered: ‎10-12-2018
Location: IT
Views: 3,002
Message 12 of 207

Re: Ideapad 330 Ryzen 5 2500u underperforming


@MINATO07 wrote:
yup Smiley Sad they just don't care , they are just forcing the apu for low performance , thats ridiculous.

Ridicolous is reductive. This is completely unacceptable and unfair, since there is no thermal reasons but only a nonsense performance limit releated to the STAPM, which is a simple algorithm that decides to throttle the CPU after 2-3 minutes of load on certain voltages. You can check this behaviour by using AMD uprof app and se how the STAPM power limit is unreleated to the temperatures. Even after the CPU stops working and cools down to the idle temperature, the STAPM value will falls indipendently and reach its baseline after ~10 minutes. Throttling in this laptop is not caused by high themperature, since during the 2-3 minutes windows at "full" power the CPU is stable at around 70°C whit fans running at medium speed, there's really no reason to cut the power by an half and cool it down to 58°C (!!). The good news is that we have an mXFR unlocked APU, so there is a chance to unleash its full power through a simple BIOS update, if only they would care.

Screenshot (5).png

 aHyeAcv.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Lenovo, you have to explain the reasons of this behaviour, you can't get full money for mid range laptops and sells them with this kind of limitations and no support. I ask to any mod/admin who will ever read this to forward the feedback to the BIOS developing team. 

C'mon Lenovo, you can't left thousands of customers in this situation. Other OEMs like Acer, Huawei or HP already solved this issue by releasing a BIOS update or a new power management profile. 

 

Mod's Edit:  This post was not deleted.  It was auto removed by the forum's Spam Filter due to the number of repeated edits you performed on the post.  The filter, in error, believed you were spamming the forum.  This post has now been restored and your duplicate post has been removed.  Sorry for the confusion and extra work.

 

MINATO07
SCSI Port
Posts: 34
Registered: ‎10-21-2018
Location: IN
Views: 2,987
Message 13 of 207

Re: Ideapad 330 Ryzen 5 2500u underperforming

yes this is not acceptable, we need a bios update with stamp disabled or a custom tdp option, everyone who is reading this please keep this thread alive and let lenovo know of our suffering.
Longhorn87
SCSI Port
Posts: 45
Registered: ‎10-12-2018
Location: IT
Views: 2,977
Message 14 of 207

Re: Ideapad 330 Ryzen 5 2500u underperforming


@Longhorn87 wrote:

Mod's Edit:  This post was not deleted.  It was auto removed by the forum's Spam Filter due to the number of repeated edits you performed on the post.  The filter, in error, believed you were spamming the forum.  This post has now been restored and your duplicate post has been removed.  Sorry for the confusion and extra work.

 


Oh, well, i'm glad that i have not broken any rule. Probably it was better to keep the second message, since the reason of the repeated edits is in the ridiculous amount of typos i made on the first try... Smiley Very Happy

 

Anyway, probably i was a bit harsh, but i wish you all can understand our disappointment caused by the unexplainable limitations that this laptop and probably every other Lenovo model equipped with Raven Ridge's APUs  are currently suffering. To be more clear, the upcoming screenshot is the proof of the unleashed potential of my Ideapad 330S-15ARR:

Screenshot (9).png

 

 

These are my Cinebench R15 scores boosted by some personal tunings i'm currently workin' on Smiley Wink. They are on the same level and sometimes better than what higher rated APUs like AMD Ryzen 7 2700u or Intel Core i7-8550u  can achieve, according to the Notebookcheck database. And moreover, this little beast can litteraly wipes off its main competitor, the Intel Core i5-8250u, on both multicore and GPU benchmarks... It's very sad that it can not sustain this power for more than 2-3 minutes due to a senseless performance throttling. There's really no reason for that.

 

So, dear Lenovo, you have the chance to make your laptops way more valuable with a simple BIOS update, a better power management software and up-to-date graphics drivers (we need some Adrenalin!). Please, take care of this issues and make thousands of customers happy and proud to own one of your products. This is all we are asking for.

 

Regards

hellowalkman
Paper Tape
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎11-02-2018
Location: IN
Views: 2,959
Message 15 of 207

Re: Ideapad 330 Ryzen 5 2500u underperforming

This issue is real, there's no denying it. Notebookcheck's review highlights this thermal throttling problem.

I have this laptop and here's how it behaves under a sustained load.

For the first 5 mins, the 2500u performs to its full potential and then once the chip temperature reaches 65-66°C, it starts to throttle heavily until it reaches 55-56°C and settles at this temp.

The clock speed of the Vega core starts at 1016MHz and gradually drops down to 300-400MHz.

Please provide a new BIOS such that this restriction is removed and that 65°C is the thermal limit not 55.

We are losing up to 50% of the performance compared to other 2500u equipped devices.

 

MINATO07
SCSI Port
Posts: 34
Registered: ‎10-21-2018
Location: IN
Views: 2,952
Message 16 of 207

Re: Ideapad 330 Ryzen 5 2500u underperforming

its not thermal bro i managed to maintain 50 C under load with custom fans , but still it throttle down to 15w, check Longhorn87 reply

MINATO07
SCSI Port
Posts: 34
Registered: ‎10-21-2018
Location: IN
Views: 2,947
Message 17 of 207

Re: Ideapad 330 Ryzen 5 2500u underperforming

Everyone check STAMP Limit and STAPM Power under controller counter section is AMD uprof , the STAPM limit is 15 W, whenever the current value reach that limit depending on stapm algo, it will throttle.Lenovo please look into it and make necessary changes.
Ryzen2500U
Paper Tape
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎10-31-2018
Location: US
Views: 2,935
Message 18 of 207

Re: Ideapad 330 Ryzen 5 2500u underperforming

How are you setting the custom fan for this notebook model? I found no software that allows it.

Ryzen2500U
Paper Tape
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎10-31-2018
Location: US
Views: 2,934
Message 19 of 207

Re: Ideapad 330 Ryzen 5 2500u underperforming

@Longhorn87

What's this tuning that you are working on? Is there some way to override the stupid (hello Lenovo engineers!!) power throttling?

This laptop definitely has potential to be way better than the i5-8250U models. But currently its performing terrible.

I might have to return it to the retailer because its not operating as advertise, the clock speed drops to below advertised clock speeds when it throttles.
Longhorn87
SCSI Port
Posts: 45
Registered: ‎10-12-2018
Location: IT
Views: 2,929
Message 20 of 207

Re: Ideapad 330 Ryzen 5 2500u underperforming


@hellowalkman wrote:

This issue is real, there's no denying it. Notebookcheck's review highlights this thermal throttling problem.

I have this laptop and here's how it behaves under a sustained load.

For the first 5 mins, the 2500u performs to its full potential and then once the chip temperature reaches 65-66°C, it starts to throttle heavily until it reaches 55-56°C and settles at this temp.

The clock speed of the Vega core starts at 1016MHz and gradually drops down to 300-400MHz.

Please provide a new BIOS such that this restriction is removed and that 65°C is the thermal limit not 55.

We are losing up to 50% of the performance compared to other 2500u equipped devices.

 


C'mon, 65°C can't be the thermal limit. According to the official specifications, the Ryzen 5 2500u max operating temperature is 95°C (don't forget that it has a Vega 8 GPU inside) and my system runs fine at 70-72°C on full load with the CPU fan running at 50-60% of its maximum speed. The problem here is that the STAPM cuts the power at 15W after 2 minutes on full load, leading to a 40-50% loss of performance. They are confusing TDP with power consumption... I could understand that on battery the consumption should not exceed the 15W, expecially on a 30 Wh battery, but on AC charge they should let it runs stable at 25W as long as the temperatures will not exceed 85°C, which is the standard throttling point of the RX Vega series GPUs.
Since the Ideapad 330S has a poor dissipation system, probably they could find a compromise between 75°C and 85°C to have stable and not harmful temperatures both inside and outside the laptop.

 


@MINATO07 wrote:

its not thermal bro i managed to maintain 50 C under load with custom fans , but still it throttle down to 15w, check Longhorn87 reply


 What cooling pad are you using? I'm thinking to buy one since where i live there are hot temperatures during summer.

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