12-21-2011 12:20 PM
Hello dear Lenovo and users of lenovo laptops!
I`ve a questions and story regarding my experience with the Notebook Lenovo Y560. I`ll write down short technical description:
Y560, bought in October 2010
CPU: Intel Core i5 460m 2.5 Ghz
GPU: AMD Radeon 5730m
RAM: Samsung 4GB 1333Mhz
That should be it for tech specs. Now for the story and the questions part.
My Y560 served me first 7 month before he died 05.06.2011 with a "stamp" - Dead GPU, that was seen by artifacts on reboot (all screen in blue/red/cyan artifacts). I got to closest "Lenovo official Technical support" where they`ve took it for 5-6 days. First of all, i`ve not received my laptop back in 3-7 days, because "Lenovo had technical havok" in supply of parts (whole motherboard has been replaced) and i`ve waited 23+ days, calling and visiting service center during that period.
I almost lost my patience, because my notebook, contained all my info (i was unable to backup the info, dead GPU shown black screen and switchable graphics also was dead) and work. It had it`s effects on my work schedules, no doubt about that. Then, in 12.07.2011 it has died again with exactly same dead part - GPU.
Laptop died for no reason, i was busy compiling an application (another customer`s request), switched to twitter client and BOOM - black screen, artifacts appeared after reboot.
That was it, two "deaths", 1st one happened after first 6 months of usage, second one happened this december (6th month) .
More than that, service center has not even mentioned in the official repair papers the true duration of the repairs, they`ve wrote "standard" 10 or so days instead of whole 23 days.
Laptop operation now:
1) After two replacements of the motherboard with GPU, laptop is running win7 with weak cooling fan that is SWITCHED OFF!
I hold a hand where the hot air exhaust is usually took place and there is nothing! GPU monitoring program has shown that fan "works" at 39%, it was a bluff i thought. I`ve decided to see who is lying - a "dumb" application (SiSoft Sandra), me or Lenovo.
I`ve pulled out a few bolts, removed protective plastic thing that was covering the cooler and figured out that fan is not working at all, he does not spin even if i try and launch some applications. CPU was too hot to touch.
2) I`m loading Mass Effect 2 and fan skyrocketing immidiately to 93% of it`s spin power only in the intensive, large battle with a lot of action on screen. Checking temperature readings i was amazed:
CPU: 88 Celsius
GPU: 79 Celsius
Please consider that laptop is lifted by 3 inches from the table to test the fan cooling capabilities. Obviously, fan is terrible at cooling.
So my questions are (mostly to lenovo or anyone who knows something about it):
1) Can i get my money back? Because with 3 inches in the air 88 celsius under load is not good, besides my friends are upset with me taking their notebook to finish my projects and already declined any further aid.
2) Who constructed that cooling system? I mean seriously, two thin pipes running around huge plastic case of the fan, they can`t even cool CPU because of such distance!
3) What happens with this Y560 after the guarantee? My guarantee expires in 10.11.2012, with the rate it keeps killing its own GPU now, it may break shortly after the expiration of those 2 years, leaving not the best words in the direction of Lenovo in my mind.
4) Where are the applications for fan control? Lenovo, you are continuing to upset, according to my small test even some applications show false readings (that app`s fault partly) and no other app is capable to control your cooling systems! MSI Afterburner also useless.
Release the app finally, stop this closed policy! If that is bios - release a bios with manual switch of Fan speed. You can. When GPU and CPU overheat - their efficiency is dropping (my case is not an exception...)
5) Why cooling system is not working on Win7`s desktop? Latest bios is not helping.
Before you go with any thoughts i want to make clear a few things:
1) Russian site does not have forum at all.
2) I`m not angry, i do upset with spending 1300$ on notebook that breaks every half of the year. Leaving bad opinions in the minds of my friends and customers about my work time.
3) I do not want this chat topic to become a fight with screams.
12-21-2011 04:50 PM
12-21-2011 05:57 PM
12-22-2011 02:14 AM
Hello JameZ! I glad that someone finally answered!
My bios is the latest 71, i`m trying to keep up with the latest updates. Lenovo energy management was installed shortly after it`s release. Thermal paste indeed can throw the warranty into a rubbish bin. Screws were tightened even before i ran my temperature tests.
Also, all i can do in the local service center is to replace the motherboard and in the first time they put my lenovo into 23+ day absence while waiting for a new motherboard.
Please say this to your engineers, or if you are one of them then: Try to re-route the heatpipes, having them running around the entire fan`s cooling case is a problem especially in a tight hot case like Y560`s. Please work on bios with fan control enabled, this may save many Y560 laptops from death. With that temperature levels, we both know that CPU and GPU is slowly burning everything around them including themselves - capacitors, RAM.... Example is old and some new full sized Nvidia videocards like GTX480, GTX280 that had a potential to go up to 100+ celsius under load, decreasing life time of everything around GPU.
A question: If your programmers made fan control from bios or application, can i get a source code of this Bios/application? Solely to do fan speed modification, because even mighty Afterburner is not capable to do so, even the catalyst drivers does not have it`s normal overdrive panel where i can change fan speed or monitor the temperature of the GPU.
I`ve read all material on the link that was provided, however, downgrading to 59 bios, knowing that it may cause serious problems with graphics in exchange only for cooling fan solution (possible solution) is not going to happen.
12-22-2011 03:15 AM
Bios is the latest, official - 71.
Graphics card driver is the latest from your site - 8.772 (2011-03-16) despite the AMD has the driver dated by 2011-12-16 and it refused to work when i`ve installed a new windows 7 HB that came with notebook.
Power management was also downloaded - 220.127.116.11 from lenovo site (date: 2010-03-08).
What really confuse me - why most of the drivers are outdated? I mean power management is almost 21 month old! Think of it! Lenovo could`ve quickly asssemble small database of errors, fan management, overheating, other... then see what they can do to remove this database using high and low level programming, release updates and even create a new apps!
ATi release new drivers every month with new fixes and upgrades while lenovo is not so eager to follow despite ATi recommends to use Lenovo drivers for lenovo notebooks. Which causes a bit of havok because you want to get those latest releases with upgrades and fixes and you really can`t, because if GPU dies - warranty is void (and possibly strong words from service center - "you have used not our drivers, it`s not a warranty case") . Warranty actually limits the amount help i can get, for example i heard about some chinese guys created their own bios with unlocked overdrive capabilities to solve fan speed problem and allow overclocking on lenovo Y560. From the other`s reviews and comments on that bios i got to understanding of one simple thing - chinese guys failed with fan manipulation. I have not installed that bios because i treasure my warranty (after visiting the service center two times i really treasure it, i do not know when will be the third and 4th times) .
There is no other solutions, i`ve checked some used 3rd party ATI drivers because their Y560 denies normal ATI drivers.
Bios updates are also not frequent at all, latest Bios upgrade (71th version) is 9-10 month old...
12-22-2011 03:25 AM
12-22-2011 05:15 AM
I can replace it in Russia? Will they replace it in store or i do need to send it to lenovo? Or can i replace with a newer model because of huge price difference (same model for such a price today, when it is beaten by any 800 $ laptop is not good by any means).
12-22-2011 05:41 AM
12-22-2011 05:25 PM
12-29-2011 04:25 AM
I took a screenshots 4 times for 4 days, to monitor the temperature of CPU and GPU:
During 720p online stream/video: 79 Celsius - 1st core, 84 Celsius - 2nd core.
During 1080p online stream/video: 1st core: 85 Celsius, 2nd Core: 92 Celsius.
Game SC2: Medium settings, 100/200 limit of units, 85 Celsius - 1st core, 89 Celsius - 2nd core.
ME2: High Settings + AA 8x, 40-45 fps, 1st core: 89 Celsius, 2nd core: 97 Celsius.
During 720p online stream/video: 64 Celsius
During 1080p online stream/video: 70.5 Celsius.
Game SC2: Medium settings, 100/200 limit of units: 72.5 Celsius.
ME2: High Settings + AA 8x, 40-45 fps: 76 Celsius.
This is real data provided by free program "Open Hardware Monitor" that displays accurate information (tested on my
friend`s PC - data supplied by ATI drivers and CPU-Z (popular CPU information freeware application) matches the one dispayed in Open Hardware Monitor).
By the way, due to unknown reason, during 1080 stream, fan operates randomly - it skyrocket it`s speed up to 84%, keeps there for a minute, then shutting down to low/off state (stream is 2+ hours, depends on streamer, streamer reported to have 50 Mbit internet with even better ping.). Quality of the stream decreases after 1st two minutes, so it looks like 720p despite 1080p (my connection is 13 Mbit and ping is 57 ms that is more than enough for 1080p video). K-lite codec pack installed as well as the latest drivers from your site for every piece of hardware.
Why should i replace my notebook with another one of the series if ENTIRE SERIES is overheating? Much more people than just i have this issue, on your forums, russian forums and friends of my friends who purchased current laptop. This CPU in current laptop is behaving like quad core models and above, this is true data from REVIEWS and my live experience with my friend`s gaming laptop - Alienware M18x.
Alienware is equipped with AMD Radeon 6990m with a copper heatsink and a big cooler, that sound like a jet fighter taking off and procuce a big flow of air through entire notebook. Tempetrature levels for such powerful videocard are acceptable as well as for the quad core Intel Core i7, but here we have - dual core 460m that heats to near shutdown state (100-105 Celsius is the temperature limit for that model of the CPU and shutdown point of Y560 is somewhere between).
With all due respect for your laptops that have a very good sound, look nice, slim and so on, you could`ve released bios featuring manual control of the fan. You had an entire YEAR to do so, since the release, it is an obvious aid that does not need any "fail units".
In another half of the year or less my laptop will die again, i`ll lose another data, get him back from service center again and so on? Not to mention i lost my data two times already thanks to lenovo service center (dead GPU = black screen/screen-full-of-artifacts, switchable graphics does not work during GPU failure, so i can`t switch to Intel HD graphics and copy every piece of data that i need to save).
You are unable to release BIOS source codes to public? Why? That bios source codes are still your properly and they are not much of use for me besides of my fan speed alteration.
After a double repair with third coming in another 4-5 months, constant overheat, cooling system problems, data loss and all problems in my previous and current posts i do not want this laptop replaced with the same model. Reason - it will behave like the current one, why do i need the same problems again, quadcore models are even hotter than this.
Cooling system`s job is difficult thanks to small plastic case of the notebook itself, flow of the air is limited and holes on the lower side do not help that much. Yes, case design is good, but it is not worth it if the notebook overheats. Cooling system is cooling GPU and cpu, again even hot alienware has different cooling fans for GPU and CPU, not the single one.