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cythrawl
What's DOS?
Posts: 26
Registered: ‎11-11-2011
Location: United States
Views: 1,572
Message 1 of 54

Time to come Clean Motorola (Electrify - Blur ROMS)

Ok,


We Motorola owners have been silent and I think its time that we was not. Just last year I signed up for the Electrify Beta test for Motorola's 2.3.5 update for the phone. I received an email from Motorola that within 24 hours I would be getting the updated pushed to my device. At the time I got the email (around 9:30 am) I was using a custom ROM (Cyanogen Mod 7) and I proceeded to back up my phone and flash the phone back to Stock 2.3.4. Once I did that, I never got the update pushed to my device. So in turn I posted that question why I never received it on the Forums.


 


Mark answered it by saying this:


Wow you've reset your phone 21 times... Whatever for?  The reason you can't get the update is because you've factory reset the phone after the update was sent out.  I'll reply in the other thread concerning the wifi issue. It's off topic here.


Mark


Support Forums Manager”


 


To which I answered that it was really non of his or Motorola’s business how many times I reset my device as for one – its MINE. I also asked what else Motorola was tracking from my device and why we users are not made aware of it. Of course I never got an answer to that post.


 


To be honest it was a Godsend that I never got the update, because as we all know Motorola relocked the Bootloader and has every intention of never making it unlocked again. However that’s a different issue and not the one at hand here.


Now I get that that I missed the update to 2.3.5 because I was on a custom ROM that is totally not supported by Motorola, and quite frankly this isn’t the issue here.


The issue is that my activity was tracked. When I got the phone and activated it I was not aware of any EULA that would state that Motorola would be tracking its users and activities. There was no such message in the Box, Manual, or on the phone on first boot. If it IS in the manual then it is so far embedded in some clause that it’s criminal that it is in there. However I am pretty sure its not. 


So I would put that down to my activity was tracked WITHOUT my consent. Which to me, is a pretty big deal


So this brings me to the meat of this post. A few users have stated there are some suspect apps (Motorola Stock) that are running in the background and require some insane Access Rights.. I will now list them along with the permissions they require (You can see these for yourself on your own phone. Applications > All > and find them on the list.). Some of these are quite the eye opener… 


 


AdService.apk


  • Network Communication (Full Internet Access)

  • Phone Calls (ReadPhoneStateand identity)


 


DataCollection.apk


  • Your personal Information (Read Contact Data, Read Sensitive Log Data, Read user Defined Dictionary, Write Contact Data)

  • Services that Cost you Money (Directly Call Phone Numbers, Send SMS Messages)

  • Your Location (coarse (network-based) location, fine (GPS) location, mock location sources for testing)

  • Your messages (edit SMS or MMS, Read SMS or MMS, Receive SMS)

  • Network Communication (control Near Field Communication, Create Bluetooth Connections, Full Internet Access)

  • Your Accounts (manage the accounts list, use the authentication credentials of an account)

  • Storage (Modify/delete SD card Contents)

  • Phone Calls (intercept outgoing calls, read phone state and identity)

  • hardware Controls (change your audio settings)

  • System Tools (Bluetooth Administration, change network connectivity, change WiFi State, Change WiMAX State, Change your UI Settings, Modify Global System Settings, Mount and unmount file systems, prevent phone from sleeping, reorder running applications, retrieve running applications, write Access Point Name settings, write Sync Settings)


          (Hidden)        


  • Default (Modify battery Statistics, Read Certificates)

  • Your personal Information (write to user defined dictionary)

  • network Communication (view network state, view Wi-Fi state, view WiMAX state)

  • Your Accounts (discover known accounts, read Google service configuration, View configured accounts)

  • hardware Controls (control vibrator)

  • System Tools (Automatically start at boot, expand/collapse status bar, kill background processes, measure application storage space, read Home settings and shortcuts, read sync settings, read sync statistics, set wallpaper, write Home settings and shortcuts)


 


DataCollectorProvider.apk


  • Your Personal Information (read contact data)


 


DataCollectorService.apk


  • Your Personal Information (read contact data)


 


KpiLogger.apk


  • Your personal Information (Read Contact Data, Read Sensitive Log Data, Read user Defined Dictionary, Write Contact Data)

  • Services that Cost you Money (Directly Call Phone Numbers, Send SMS Messages)

  • Your Location (coarse (network-based) location, fine (GPS) location, mock location sources for testing)

  • Your messages (edit SMS or MMS, Read SMS or MMS, Receive SMS)

  • Network Communication (control Near Field Communication, Create Bluetooth Connections, Full Internet Access)

  • Your Accounts (manage the accounts list, use the authentication credentials of an account)

  • Storage (Modify/delete SD card Contents)

  • Phone Calls (intercept outgoing calls, read phone state and identity)

  • hardware Controls (change your audio settings)

  • System Tools (Bluetooth Administration, change network connectivity, change WiFi State, Change WiMAX State, Change your UI Settings, Modify Global System Settings, Mount and unmount file systems, prevent phone from sleeping, reorder running applications, retrieve running applications, write Access Point Name settings, write Sync Settings)


           (Hidden)  


  • Default (Modify battery Statistics, Read Certificates)

  • Your personal Information (write to user defined dictionary)

  • network Communication (view network state, view Wi-Fi state, view WiMAX state)

  • Your Accounts (discover known accounts, read Google service configuration, View configured accounts)

  • hardware Controls (control vibrator)

  • System Tools (Automatically start at boot, expand/collapse status bar, kill background processes, measure application storage space, read Home settings and shortcuts, read sync settings, read sync statistics, set wallpaper, write Home settings and shortcuts)          


 


MasterClearErrorReporter.apk


  • Your personal Information (Read Contact Data, Read Sensitive Log Data, Read user Defined Dictionary, Write Contact Data)

  • Services that Cost you Money (Directly Call Phone Numbers, Send SMS Messages)

  • Your Location (coarse (network-based) location, fine (GPS) location, mock location sources for testing)

  • Your messages (edit SMS or MMS, Read SMS or MMS, Receive SMS)

  • Network Communication (control Near Field Communication, Create Bluetooth Connections, Full Internet Access)

  • Your Accounts (manage the accounts list, use the authentication credentials of an account)

  • Storage (Modify/delete SD card Contents)

  • Phone Calls (intercept outgoing calls, read phone state and identity)

  • hardware Controls (change your audio settings)

  • System Tools (Bluetooth Administration, change network connectivity, change WiFi State, Change WiMAX State, Change your UI Settings, Modify Global System Settings, Mount and unmount file systems, prevent phone from sleeping, reorder running applications, retrieve running applications, write Access Point Name settings, write Sync Settings)


          (Hidden)     


  • Default (Modify battery Statistics, Read Certificates)

  • Your personal Information (write to user defined dictionary)

  • network Communication (view network state, view Wi-Fi state, view WiMAX state)

  • Your Accounts (discover known accounts, read Google service configuration, View configured accounts)

  • hardware Controls (control vibrator)

  • System Tools (Automatically start at boot, expand/collapse status bar, kill background processes, measure application storage space, read Home settings and shortcuts, read sync settings, read sync statistics, set wallpaper, write Home settings and shortcuts)


 


 


So, to paraphrase Mark….


 


Wow these Apps need some insane permissions…. WHATEVER FOR??


 


And aren’t they named well?


I suggest that someone provides FULL DISCLOSURE on what all these apps do. They are NOT required to run the device (if you are rooted you can freeze the processes with no ill effects and can infact remove them) and they most certainly are NOT part of Android’s original OS.. So whatever ARE they for and what ARE they collecting???


So Motorola, the ball is in your court so to speak, I and a great many others would be really curious on telling us what they are for…


Your move..

cwill0303
What's DOS?
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎01-22-2012
Location: United States
Views: 1,572
Message 2 of 54

Re: Time to come Clean Motorola (Electrify - Blur ROMS)

I would also like to see an answer to this.

ejraney
What's DOS?
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎09-27-2011
Location: United States
Views: 1,572
Message 3 of 54

Re: Time to come Clean Motorola (Electrify - Blur ROMS)

 Same here, I to think some answers are in order.
cdrice15
What's DOS?
Posts: 38
Registered: ‎11-10-2011
Location: United States
Views: 1,572
Message 4 of 54

Re: Time to come Clean Motorola (Electrify - Blur ROMS)

 I have asked this question but no answers. I think a response is needed.
cythrawl
What's DOS?
Posts: 26
Registered: ‎11-11-2011
Location: United States
Views: 1,572
Message 5 of 54

Re: Time to come Clean Motorola (Electrify - Blur ROMS)

This post has been posted on XDA and other forums as well (Just in case this gets taken down) I think we the users have the RIGHT to get answers. No if's and's or but's!

MikeyLee
What's DOS?
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎01-25-2012
Location: United States
Views: 1,572
Message 6 of 54

Re: Time to come Clean Motorola (Electrify - Blur ROMS)

 "Wow you've reset your phone 21 times... Whatever for?" 


Moto that's none of your business why anyone resets their phone. However since you apparently responded to the thread poster in this way, how about the fact that these phones have problems right out of the box. Maybe someone having a completely stock and brand new phone that gives then freezes and rndom reboots pisses them off to the point of doing resets to try to resole the problem. You dont really have a right to question what someone does with their phone. So answer the damn question and tell us what Moto installs these apk's for.




  • Edited by forums manager -- suggestions of violence of any kind will not be tolerated on this site, per our site rules. [1]

Mark_Emeritus Moto Emeritus
Moto Emeritus
Posts: 16,016
Registered: ‎11-21-2013
Location: The Moon
Views: 1,572
Message 7 of 54

Re: Time to come Clean Motorola (Electrify - Blur ROMS)

@cythrawl


This is a peer to peer support community. Responses by Motorola employees is not guaranteed. Motorola Feedback Network activities are a bit different. There is more one to one interaction in that situation. 


You elected to be part of the soak test more than 10 days prior to the test starting. The assumption is users have a stock phone and that they will be able to update without issue on their device. Certainly some users like to play/test/tinker with their device and that's fine. It's well known across this site that we don't permit the discussion of such topics as it can prevent a successful update/upgrade. Never the less we try to avoid excluding users as we also assume that those who do tinker know enough to get themselves back to stock at the time we're ready to push. It is in my opinion that you had enough time between the time you signed up and the time we pushed the update to have it ready to successfully receive the update. We make every effort to give you advanced notice of the start of the update however in the same respect we don't want users waiting forever and those who are stock shouldn't have to wait on those who have tinkered. That's not fair to them. We're pretty quick about once we have all the necessary approvals that we push the update to our "soak" group. 


As to my questions to you they are never to invade anyone's privacy. (I take privacy quite seriously. You notice that we use HTTPS on the site because we feel your privacy is important. Furthermore we avoid disclosing any public information when helping with troubleshooting here on the community both in public and private areas.) The amount of "apparent" resets were alarming. I was concerned that there was an issue with your phone and didn't assume that you were flashing and reflashing it and setting up new accounts. If you had a chronic issue we would have worked with you to rectify it. Despite your assumption, there is very little information that I can see to assist you with troubleshooting. With the minimal information I do have, I make every effort to assist and understand why a particular user is having a problem. Sometimes it is apparent by the information available to me but other times it requires a great deal of background from you. Remember we're working to assist you here in front of others. We can't ask you questions you might have in a private conversation with a tech. We're workign with our hands tied.


Updates are dependent on your source software and certain applications in that software in order for the software to clear as being safe for install. If specific apps are missing in the security check the phone doesn't install the update/upgrade as we don't want your phone to break. While I don't object to what you choose to do with your phone it is not the majority that does tweak their device.


As far as the applications that are pre-installed on our devices, it varies by service provider. We work closely with our carrier partners and build phones to their specifications and intended experience. I'll certainly ask about the applications you mention but I can't guarantee as to the details I'll be able to give to you. It's best that you contact privacy@motorola.com.


Your welcome to read the Motorola documentation as found on the MyMOTOBLUR User Portal


Upon turning on the phone and registering it on the network you must agree to the EULA. The only difference between your phone and a MOTOBLUR device is that you don't have a user created login. A random login is created for you to optimize the setup experience. If you don't connect any social networking applications your phone doesn't connect with our servers. Furthermore you can go into Menu > Settings > Data Manager > Data Delivery > Social Applications > Sync Only Over Wifi. If this is checked and you aren't connected to wifi your phone will not connect to our servers. The side effect however is that you will not get any updates when your phone is not "checking in" periodically. 


Lastly, I'm saddened by the fact that you didn't abide by the Motorola Feedback Network Non Disclosure agreement you agreed to upon joining the Motorola Feedback Network. Discussing MFN activities outside designated areas is strictly prohibited. Provided this thread excludes MFN related activities here on out it will remain open. Further violation of the NDA will result in closure of this thread. If you(cythrawl) would like to discuss MFN activities further please email me at supportforums@motorola.com.


Mark
Support Forums Manager 

Mark
Former Employee
cythrawl
What's DOS?
Posts: 26
Registered: ‎11-11-2011
Location: United States
Views: 1,572
Message 8 of 54

Re: Time to come Clean Motorola (Electrify - Blur ROMS)


@cythrawl


This is a peer to peer support community. Responses by Motorola employees is not guaranteed. Motorola Feedback Network activities are a bit different. There is more one to one interaction in that situation. 


You elected to be part of the soak test more than 10 days prior to the test starting. The assumption is users have a stock phone and that they will be able to update without issue on their device. Certainly some users like to play/test/tinker with their device and that's fine. It's well known across this site that we don't permit the discussion of such topics as it can prevent a successful update/upgrade. Never the less we try to avoid excluding users as we also assume that those who do tinker know enough to get themselves back to stock at the time we're ready to push. It is in my opinion that you had enough time between the time you signed up and the time we pushed the update to have it ready to successfully receive the update. We make every effort to give you advanced notice of the start of the update however in the same respect we don't want users waiting forever and those who are stock shouldn't have to wait on those who have tinkered. That's not fair to them. We're pretty quick about once we have all the necessary approvals that we push the update to our "soak" group. 



 


Lets be clear here, this post was NOTHING to do with me being elected to the "soak" Group, nothing at all. I am not blaming Motorola in any way shape or form that I did not get the update because I was on a custom ROM. In fact because I was on a Custom ROM makes perfect sense on why I didnt get the update or never got the repush for it after I put Stock back on. What I was using that was the backstory to see why I think that you (as in Motorola) are tracking way more than just how many times we Master Reset the Device. and lets be honest here, I found your reply to that with the "Whatever for?" pretty crass, belittleing and downright condesending at the very least. If you had not even said anything and not even in that tone, then I probably would not be here today with a post asking what else you are tracking. Even if it wasnt meant to be in that tone, it just came across as that. I didnt re-edit any words you used or put it out of context either. I just think the response was for lack of a better phrase "not professional" at all.



As to my questions to you they are never to invade anyone's privacy. (I take privacy quite seriously. You notice that we use HTTPS on the site because we feel your privacy is important. Furthermore we avoid disclosing any public information when helping with troubleshooting here on the community both in public and private areas.) The amount of "apparent" resets were alarming. I was concerned that there was an issue with your phone and didn't assume that you were flashing and reflashing it and setting up new accounts. If you had a chronic issue we would have worked with you to rectify it. Despite your assumption, there is very little information that I can see to assist you with troubleshooting. With the minimal information I do have, I make every effort to assist and understand why a particular user is having a problem. Sometimes it is apparent by the information available to me but other times it requires a great deal of background from you. Remember we're working to assist you here in front of others. We can't ask you questions you might have in a private conversation with a tech. We're workign with our hands tied.


Updates are dependent on your source software and certain applications in that software in order for the software to clear as being safe for install. If specific apps are missing in the security check the phone doesn't install the update/upgrade as we don't want your phone to break. While I don't object to what you choose to do with your phone it is not the majority that does tweak their device.


As far as the applications that are pre-installed on our devices, it varies by service provider. We work closely with our carrier partners and build phones to their specifications and intended experience. I'll certainly ask about the applications you mention but I can't guarantee as to the details I'll be able to give to you. It's best that you contact privacy@motorola.com.



Using HTTPS on the website and using software to track what I am doing on a phone are two different things ENTIRELY, I asked what else was being tracked as did several others of the Soak group in that thread, and you never answered one of us. That action alone probably did way more damage than you realize. If you had told us what else you are tracking on our devices (and the forums had a PM feature or you could have emailed me directly as well if you didnt want to reply in public), then maybe I wouldnt be here trying to get answers and calling you out on it. The whole Carrier IQ thing last year would be picture proof of what can happen. I also know that those exact APK's are also on Sprint's Photon.


Now if it was Carrier Specific then why would it be on Sprint AND USCellular. I can ask some people at US Cellular to get in touch with the PEG group and ask them if they know and why these APK's are on the phone, I know for a FACT they arent on any other US Cellular Android phones (or anything else Carrier IQ like in data collection). If it IS carrier specific (which I dont think those apps ARE as they are BLUR Specific) then I will be able to find out why US Cellular added them. I will say this, my Service manager at US Cellular knew nothing about any tracking (even for Master Resets) and was pretty shocked when I told him that Motorola can and DO track it. I want to know what ELSE you are tracking. Other people (even in this VERY thread) are asking the same things.


Nothing more nothing less. 



Upon turning on the phone and registering it on the network you must agree to the EULA. The only difference between your phone and a MOTOBLUR device is that you don't have a user created login. A random login is created for you to optimize the setup experience. If you don't connect any social networking applications your phone doesn't connect with our servers. Furthermore you can go into Menu > Settings > Data Manager > Data Delivery > Social Applications > Sync Only Over Wifi. If this is checked and you aren't connected to wifi your phone will not connect to our servers. The side effect however is that you will not get any updates when your phone is not "checking in" periodically. 


Lastly, I'm saddened by the fact that you didn't abide by the Motorola Feedback Network Non Disclosure agreement you agreed to upon joining the Motorola Feedback Network. Discussing MFN activities outside designated areas is strictly prohibited. Provided this thread excludes MFN related activities here on out it will remain open. Further violation of the NDA will result in closure of this thread. If you(cythrawl) would like to discuss MFN activities further please email me at supportforums@motorola.com.


Mark
Support Forums Manager 



 


And where does it state in the EULA that Motorola can and will track any data on the phone and there is no opt out option for the user? If you can point that out (and the Opt out) then I think you need to make it way more clear, because I dont think a single user of the phone would tell you that they saw (and agreed to it). Another thing, most new phones sold are set up by the salesperson for that customer. The likelyhood of the actual customer seeing any kind of EULA is pretty slim. So thats a poor excuse if thats where the EULA is.


And yes I didnt abide by the non disclosure agreement, but seeing the software (2.3.5) has now been available and been pushing out to the phones for like TWO MONTHS now, I really dont think there is anything that I can disclose that isnt common knowledge as its no longer beta or in testing. NDA's are for software/hardware that isnt OUT yet.. this software is out... Really the NDA (on the software) is pretty much lifted. The only reason I quoted that post was because for one I knew it would finally get a response out of someone. I wont be using any more posts from that thread (MFN) (and to be honest since the Forum changes I dont seem to have access to that thread any more at any rate)


But on the flip side, I also left it for two months to see if you would finally answer about the privacy concerns brought up not only by me but serveral OTHERS in that soak test area, and not once did you reply and placeate them (Not even a PM from you about it).. So after months of stewing on it, I posted it here in a public forum. and on several others linking to this very thread, because to be quite honest I am sick of the total non-answers on the matter. If Privacy was important as you say it was, then you would have been all over this... right off the bat. But it took a post months later, with APK info (and what is required of them) to get any kind of answer out of you.. and even then you try to make it look like the honus is on me, the user who had a ligitimate privacy concern and was totally snubbed and ignored... But we are the bad ones here right? 


Pretty much, all I want now is answers about the APK's in question and what data they are collecting and the big reason, WHY. Everyone else looking at this thread also wants those same answers... Not any more PR bullet dodging. 

Moto Sr Moderator
Moto Sr Moderator
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Location: United States
Views: 1,572
Message 9 of 54

Re: Time to come Clean Motorola (Electrify - Blur ROMS)

 Wow, what is the big deal, unless I was doing something illegal with my phone, who cares if data of my phone use is being tracked.
leomaxi
What's DOS?
Posts: 27
Registered: ‎07-20-2010
Location: United States
Views: 1,572
Message 10 of 54

Re: Time to come Clean Motorola (Electrify - Blur ROMS)

mistaken, your privacy is important and must be protected, in Europe there are strict legislative on this point, and I hope that clarifies why if the European community discovers that unbeknownst to many users, are read everything that trigger sanctions. I also do not want others to know of my sites visited, etc..


sorry for my English