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Moto Sr Moderator
Moto Sr Moderator
Posts: 2,012
Registered: ‎12-04-2009
Location: United States
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Message 11 of 54

Re: Time to come Clean Motorola (Electrify - Blur ROMS)

 Here in the US, our National Security is protected by some levels of data retrieval. On a side note, many Apps, PC programs and all Internet access collects data of PC and phone use.
cythrawl
What's DOS?
Posts: 26
Registered: ‎11-11-2011
Location: United States
Views: 503
Message 12 of 54

Re: Time to come Clean Motorola (Electrify - Blur ROMS)


Poko said:

 Wow, what is the big deal, unless I was doing something illegal with my phone, who cares if data of my phone use is being tracked.

 



Poko said:

 Here in the US, our National Security is protected by some levels of data retrieval. On a side note, many Apps, PC programs and all Internet access collects data of PC and phone use.

Wow... Really? Did I just read that????


Said like a typical head in the sand US Citizen there... And I am sure the Wall Street Bank CEO's don't need to criminally investigated and go to trial after wasting our Bailout money and it was OK the FED did what it did after the bailout too.. (Look up $100,000,000 penny on You Tube, and forget the Ron Paul political statement just absorb the message)


I'll spell it out for you why its a BIG DEAL.


IT IS YOUR PRIVATE INFORMATION... Look at the permissions, they could read pretty much EVERYTHING you do with the phone and track WHERE you was when you did it, and WHO you did it with.. There is NO REASON why its in there, none at all. And last I checked Motorola Corporation was NOT a Government entity, and if it WAS a Government trying to do this very thing the outrage would be extensive (unless you lived in a Country like North Korea). It has nothing to do with weather you are doing anything illegal or not. Police have to get a warrant to search your premises for a reason. This is just like if the Police could just barge into ANYONES house with no permission at any time they choose.


The biggest concern in this matter is that the information "potentially" sent by these applications is extensive, including information I would consider private or secure. Moreover, I had no choice about whether I would permit the application to send this data. It’s one thing to be legitimately stupid about the installation of a malicious app, it’s another to have passive consent. 


I suggest you read into CarrierIQ and why THAT was a big stink, I also suggest you look into why Google and Apple had to change the GPS part of the software (More so Apple) because it was tracking you without your consent. Both counts of those ended up being brought up in our very Government.


Also PC programs and Apps are INSTALLABLE by the user, and technically have that info on what they do in the permissions and the EULA and MORE importantly are REMOVEABLE by the said user. Last time I installed something that tracked anything (Microsoft Security essentials) it gave you the option NOT to send info, and still allows you to use the app..


I see no such options here or the means for the user to remove the said apps. Not without rooting your device which voids any kind of warranty/support. Now imagine if they did that with a PC.. Thats right it would never sell, and people would buy their PC from other vendors or build their own..


Really that was a poor response.. it has NOTHING to do with illegal activities, its about your BASIC U.S. RIGHT to your OWN PRIVACY, which sadly is taken away from us more and more every day, and Citizens like you just sit on their duffs, and do nothing about it... until its too late and it finally starts affecting you...

brianboguski
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Message 13 of 54

Re: Time to come Clean Motorola (Electrify - Blur ROMS)

Cythrawl,


It's not just the advent of all the security that's embedded in the phone, it's not just the lackadaisical way that "Mark" responded to you in the most robotic, pre-determined, copy and pasted way. It's not the fact that practically EVERY phone manufacturer is offering unlocked bootloaders and Motorola STILL HAS NOT. It's everything, Most phone users USED to think that Motorola was a brand well known for it's hardware, ease of use, and quite frankly, some of the best reception I have seen on CDMA networks, not to mention most of their older phones were power houses, I know because my wife ran over her OG RAZR while it was open and not a single dent, ding or scratch. But now, it seems like Motorola doesn't care OR listen to their customers.
Motorola's PR (Public Relations or Human Relations, not sure which they have) does not listen to customers. Do people REALLY want an expensive Android powered wristwatch? I sure as hell dont and I dont think very many people do. When it comes to phones, TECHNOLOGY in general, people want a great end experience, they want to use a piece of hardware and think "Wow, I really got my money's worth on this item, I love it!" Whether it be from laptops, to tablets, game consoles even to phones.


TO MOTOROLA:


There is a company in the world that has one of the most well-known symbols in the world, do the letters IBM mean anything to you Motorola? You should, they were the premiere technology, now they are back on top. In 2003, IBM initiated a project to rewrite its company values. Using its Jam technology, the company hosted Internet-based online discussions on key business issues with 50,000 employees over 3 days. The discussions were analyzed by sophisticated text analysis software (eClassifier) to mine online comments for themes. As a result of the 2003 Jam, the company values were updated to reflect three modern business, marketplace and employee views: "Dedication to every client's success", "Innovation that matters—for our company and for the world", "Trust and personal responsibility in all relationships".In 2004, another Jam was conducted during which 52,000 employees exchanged best practices for 72 hours. They focused on finding actionable ideas to support implementation of the values previously identified. Later in 2009, IBM's Blue Gene supercomputing program was awarded the National Medal of Technology and Innovation by U.S. President Barack Obama. As of 2011, IBM had been the top annual recipient of U.S. patents for 19 consecutive years.


IBM's closing value of $214 billion on September 29, 2011 surpassed Microsoft which was valued at $213.2 billion. It was the first time since 1996 that IBM exceeded its software rival based on closing price. It was Sam Palmisano who re-invented the wheel and went to find out what customers wanted, not what IBM THOUGHT what CUSTOMERS wanted.


What does this mean Motorola? let me put it this way...YOU ARE NOT LISTENING TO YOUR CUSTOMERS! Samsung, and HTC are listening to their customers, why isn't Motorola? Maybe the 2000+ petition that was signed by Motorola users wasn't enough to convince you? If you want to increase your sales, and gain hordes of faithful, drooling Motorola crazed customers, here are some suggestions:


- Join the bandwagon! offer an unlocked bootloader on your Android phones, customization, open-ness. It's what the Android phone stands for, not limiting or restriction. We don't want to be controlled, this isn't the Matrix, and i'm not Neo. Give us our freedom. If we screw up our phones, it's on us, not you. If we love Motorola phones that much, maybe we will go out and spend the money for another Motorola phone again.


- Security: The apps are there, plain as day, clear as crystal. I have in my hands, the documentation that came with my Electrify, every scrap of paper, even the receipt! I have read this thing extensively, even while on the toilet I might add! Not anywhere does it mention that I agree to have tracking apps embedded in my phone. I was sitting next to my US Cellular representative and saw every screen he used to activate my phone. No where did it mention any tracking apps or EULA stating.


- User Experience: Now dont get me wrong or quote me out of context, I like my phone, I do, I think the UI could use some "polishing" it's good, but it's not "all the way there" just yet. Listen to the people and find out what they want, not what you think they need. Again, the MOTOACTV, in my opinion it's a turd, polish a turd, still a turd.


- C.Y.A - Hmmmmm...what does this mean? it means "Cover Your Butt" One thing I have learned in the military, is DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT! If you have these tracking apps on phones, oh wait you do! then it should be STATED IN BLACK AND WHITE that these are on the phone and this is what they do. If the user doesnt agree to those terms, then the user should promptly return their phone for something else.


To sum it all up, if things keep going the way they are, I think Motorola will learn why IBM had its "dark ages" so to speak very soon. Do I sound annoyed in this message? I think Looney Tunes saying, "You ain't just whistling dixie!" is about right. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to plug back into The Matrix, I received a text message from my wife.

Mark_Emeritus Moto Emeritus
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Message 14 of 54

Re: Time to come Clean Motorola (Electrify - Blur ROMS)


cythrawl said:


@cythrawl


This is a peer to peer support community. Responses by Motorola employees is not guaranteed. Motorola Feedback Network activities are a bit different. There is more one to one interaction in that situation. 


You elected to be part of the soak test more than 10 days prior to the test starting. The assumption is users have a stock phone and that they will be able to update without issue on their device. Certainly some users like to play/test/tinker with their device and that's fine. It's well known across this site that we don't permit the discussion of such topics as it can prevent a successful update/upgrade. Never the less we try to avoid excluding users as we also assume that those who do tinker know enough to get themselves back to stock at the time we're ready to push. It is in my opinion that you had enough time between the time you signed up and the time we pushed the update to have it ready to successfully receive the update. We make every effort to give you advanced notice of the start of the update however in the same respect we don't want users waiting forever and those who are stock shouldn't have to wait on those who have tinkered. That's not fair to them. We're pretty quick about once we have all the necessary approvals that we push the update to our "soak" group. 



 


Lets be clear here, this post was NOTHING to do with me being elected to the "soak" Group, nothing at all. I am not blaming Motorola in any way shape or form that I did not get the update because I was on a custom ROM. In fact because I was on a Custom ROM makes perfect sense on why I didnt get the update or never got the repush for it after I put Stock back on. What I was using that was the backstory to see why I think that you (as in Motorola) are tracking way more than just how many times we Master Reset the Device. and lets be honest here, I found your reply to that with the "Whatever for?" pretty crass, belittleing and downright condesending at the very least. If you had not even said anything and not even in that tone, then I probably would not be here today with a post asking what else you are tracking. Even if it wasnt meant to be in that tone, it just came across as that. I didnt re-edit any words you used or put it out of context either. I just think the response was for lack of a better phrase "not professional" at all.


Sure it does. You mentioned Soak specific information outside the Soak group. Mentioning the soak was insignificant. 


So as to understand your situation and to attempt to assist you I wanted to know why there were so many accounts for your device. This was so I could determine if your inability to get the update was due to something you were doing or if there was a problem with your device. This was and remains an inquiry to understand your situation. We certainly wouldn't want any customer to have to go through setting their device up that many times. I'm sorry you interpreted it as crass, belittling, condescending or unprofessional. It certainly wasn't meant in that way. This goes both ways. I give users the benefit of the doubt here. You must give me any any of your peers the same since tone in written word is difficult to understand. I realize you're frustrated when you're device isn't working. I was fairly surprised and confused actually. You resetting your device or flashing it back and forth between a custom and stock ROM is seen no differently on my end. I was simply trying to understand your situation based on the minimal information I have.



As to my questions to you they are never to invade anyone's privacy. (I take privacy quite seriously. You notice that we use HTTPS on the site because we feel your privacy is important. Furthermore we avoid disclosing any public information when helping with troubleshooting here on the community both in public and private areas.) The amount of "apparent" resets were alarming. I was concerned that there was an issue with your phone and didn't assume that you were flashing and reflashing it and setting up new accounts. If you had a chronic issue we would have worked with you to rectify it. Despite your assumption, there is very little information that I can see to assist you with troubleshooting. With the minimal information I do have, I make every effort to assist and understand why a particular user is having a problem. Sometimes it is apparent by the information available to me but other times it requires a great deal of background from you. Remember we're working to assist you here in front of others. We can't ask you questions you might have in a private conversation with a tech. We're workign with our hands tied.


Updates are dependent on your source software and certain applications in that software in order for the software to clear as being safe for install. If specific apps are missing in the security check the phone doesn't install the update/upgrade as we don't want your phone to break. While I don't object to what you choose to do with your phone it is not the majority that does tweak their device.


As far as the applications that are pre-installed on our devices, it varies by service provider. We work closely with our carrier partners and build phones to their specifications and intended experience. I'll certainly ask about the applications you mention but I can't guarantee as to the details I'll be able to give to you. It's best that you contact privacy@motorola.com.



Using HTTPS on the website and using software to track what I am doing on a phone are two different things ENTIRELY, I asked what else was being tracked as did several others of the Soak group in that thread, and you never answered one of us. That action alone probably did way more damage than you realize. If you had told us what else you are tracking on our devices (and the forums had a PM feature or you could have emailed me directly as well if you didnt want to reply in public), then maybe I wouldnt be here trying to get answers and calling you out on it. The whole Carrier IQ thing last year would be picture proof of what can happen. I also know that those exact APK's are also on Sprint's Photon.


Now if it was Carrier Specific then why would it be on Sprint AND USCellular. I can ask some people at US Cellular to get in touch with the PEG group and ask them if they know and why these APK's are on the phone, I know for a FACT they arent on any other US Cellular Android phones (or anything else Carrier IQ like in data collection). If it IS carrier specific (which I dont think those apps ARE as they are BLUR Specific) then I will be able to find out why US Cellular added them. I will say this, my Service manager at US Cellular knew nothing about any tracking (even for Master Resets) and was pretty shocked when I told him that Motorola can and DO track it. I want to know what ELSE you are tracking. Other people (even in this VERY thread) are asking the same things.


Nothing more nothing less. 


I wasn't intention not answering you. Sorry you took it to be that way. There are 111K plus users on this community. There are lots of questions that are asked that are pointed to me that don't get responses from me. It's not physically possible. You're always welcome to contact our customer support if you want a direct interaction. Wish I was able to answer everyone's question but it's simply possibly nor would that be good for the community as sometimes the community has better solutions than I.  Futhermore when a question to a specific user is hidden in an unrelated thread it is harder to answer it. In some cases(not this particular one) I do ignore posts directed at me if the user tries to derail a thread for their own purposes. We encourage in each community to start a new topic IF you cannot find an existing thread on a particular topic. Keeping threads to one topic also helps things stand out and gives us a good sense of how many it affects. Multiple issue threads are difficult to navigate and usually end up with a lot of side chatter that doesn't involve everyone subscribed to the thread.


Rarely do i take conversations to PM. Typically only when I need to ask for personal information so as to protect someone's information. If it's not good enough for the group then no particular user should have info another user might also like to have. Furthermore providing troubleshooting in private only benefits one person and is a waste of my time. So if you sent me a PM to a thread I probably would have responded. If you sent me a pm asking me to help you, depending on what it was I may or may not respond. This is the same for all users in this community. 



Upon turning on the phone and registering it on the network you must agree to the EULA. The only difference between your phone and a MOTOBLUR device is that you don't have a user created login. A random login is created for you to optimize the setup experience. If you don't connect any social networking applications your phone doesn't connect with our servers. Furthermore you can go into Menu > Settings > Data Manager > Data Delivery > Social Applications > Sync Only Over Wifi. If this is checked and you aren't connected to wifi your phone will not connect to our servers. The side effect however is that you will not get any updates when your phone is not "checking in" periodically. 


Lastly, I'm saddened by the fact that you didn't abide by the Motorola Feedback Network Non Disclosure agreement you agreed to upon joining the Motorola Feedback Network. Discussing MFN activities outside designated areas is strictly prohibited. Provided this thread excludes MFN related activities here on out it will remain open. Further violation of the NDA will result in closure of this thread. If you(cythrawl) would like to discuss MFN activities further please email me at supportforums@motorola.com.


Mark
Support Forums Manager 



 


And where does it state in the EULA that Motorola can and will track any data on the phone and there is no opt out option for the user? If you can point that out (and the Opt out) then I think you need to make it way more clear, because I dont think a single user of the phone would tell you that they saw (and agreed to it). Another thing, most new phones sold are set up by the salesperson for that customer. The likelyhood of the actual customer seeing any kind of EULA is pretty slim. So thats a poor excuse if thats where the EULA is.


And yes I didnt abide by the non disclosure agreement, but seeing the software (2.3.5) has now been available and been pushing out to the phones for like TWO MONTHS now, I really dont think there is anything that I can disclose that isnt common knowledge as its no longer beta or in testing. NDA's are for software/hardware that isnt OUT yet.. this software is out... Really the NDA (on the software) is pretty much lifted. The only reason I quoted that post was because for one I knew it would finally get a response out of someone. I wont be using any more posts from that thread (MFN) (and to be honest since the Forum changes I dont seem to have access to that thread any more at any rate)


But on the flip side, I also left it for two months to see if you would finally answer about the privacy concerns brought up not only by me but serveral OTHERS in that soak test area, and not once did you reply and placeate them (Not even a PM from you about it).. So after months of stewing on it, I posted it here in a public forum. and on several others linking to this very thread, because to be quite honest I am sick of the total non-answers on the matter. If Privacy was important as you say it was, then you would have been all over this... right off the bat. But it took a post months later, with APK info (and what is required of them) to get any kind of answer out of you.. and even then you try to make it look like the honus is on me, the user who had a ligitimate privacy concern and was totally snubbed and ignored... But we are the bad ones here right? 


Pretty much, all I want now is answers about the APK's in question and what data they are collecting and the big reason, WHY. Everyone else looking at this thread also wants those same answers... Not any more PR bullet dodging. 


I'll see what additional information I can get for you. I do empathize with you despite what you may think. I am here as a consumer advocate. I'm really willing to go to great lengths for our customers but certainly that requires a mutual respect. We welcome candid feedback in this community provided it is done in a constructive manner within the community rules. There are two or more ways to say the same thing. I've kicked several pro-Motorola people off the site because they couldn't say what they wanted to say in an appropriate way. That just results in me having to moderate and distracts me from helping.


I found out about this post because one of the MOTOXPRTs brought it to my attention. Pretty quickly after it was posted, in fact. I'm glad they did. There is no reason that it should have festered to this point. I would have welcomed you to have asked it sooner before it bothered you so much. Smile


The NDA doesn't expire even after the soak test ends. What happens in soak stays in soak. The lack of access to that thread doesn't have anything to do with the change in the forum. It is typical SOP to turn off the soak test communities after the soak has ended and restore your access to the public community.


I'm not a PR person and work as hard as I can to provide non PR answers. Certainly there are limitations I have. I, as much as you, do not like PR-speak.



 So let's move forward from here Smile


Mark
Support Forums Manager 

Mark
Former Employee
Cabbal
What's DOS?
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Location: United States
Views: 503
Message 15 of 54

Re: Time to come Clean Motorola (Electrify - Blur ROMS)

If motorola is doin it, theyve given uncle sam access. As soon as hackers find out they will cash in on it too. Just take a look at those permissions. Moto-Coverup.

cythrawl
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Location: United States
Views: 503
Message 16 of 54

Re: Time to come Clean Motorola (Electrify - Blur ROMS)


Sure it does. You mentioned Soak specific information outside the Soak group. Mentioning the soak was insignificant. 


So as to understand your situation and to attempt to assist you I wanted to know why there were so many accounts for your device. This was so I could determine if your inability to get the update was due to something you were doing or if there was a problem with your device. This was and remains an inquiry to understand your situation. We certainly wouldn't want any customer to have to go through setting their device up that many times. I'm sorry you interpreted it as crass, belittling, condescending or unprofessional. It certainly wasn't meant in that way. This goes both ways. I give users the benefit of the doubt here. You must give me any any of your peers the same since tone in written word is difficult to understand. I realize you're frustrated when you're device isn't working. I was fairly surprised and confused actually. You resetting your device or flashing it back and forth between a custom and stock ROM is seen no differently on my end. I was simply trying to understand your situation based on the minimal information I have.



First off Mark, thank you for replying and not using the usual cut and paste forum manager style post. Its really appreciated when I get a human like response. And first I would like to say I accept your apology in that regard. I too work in a support type environment, and yes sometimes things do get mis-interpreted. However I tried not to be a usual "troll" about my concerns here either that I am trying to get answered in this thread. I appreciate that the thread was not just locked and be done with as well. Smiley Happy



I wasn't intention not answering you. Sorry you took it to be that way. There are 111K plus users on this community. There are lots of questions that are asked that are pointed to me that don't get responses from me. It's not physically possible. You're always welcome to contact our customer support if you want a direct interaction. Wish I was able to answer everyone's question but it's simply possibly nor would that be good for the community as sometimes the community has better solutions than I.  Futhermore when a question to a specific user is hidden in an unrelated thread it is harder to answer it. In some cases(not this particular one) I do ignore posts directed at me if the user tries to derail a thread for their own purposes. We encourage in each community to start a new topic IF you cannot find an existing thread on a particular topic. Keeping threads to one topic also helps things stand out and gives us a good sense of how many it affects. Multiple issue threads are difficult to navigate and usually end up with a lot of side chatter that doesn't involve everyone subscribed to the thread.


Rarely do i take conversations to PM. Typically only when I need to ask for personal information so as to protect someone's information. If it's not good enough for the group then no particular user should have info another user might also like to have. Furthermore providing troubleshooting in private only benefits one person and is a waste of my time. So if you sent me a PM to a thread I probably would have responded. If you sent me a pm asking me to help you, depending on what it was I may or may not respond. This is the same for all users in this community. 



Again that's a fair reply and I totally get where you are coming from again with this. So I have nothing more to add to it Smiley Happy


 



I'll see what additional information I can get for you. I do empathize with you despite what you may think. I am here as a consumer advocate. I'm really willing to go to great lengths for our customers but certainly that requires a mutual respect. We welcome candid feedback in this community provided it is done in a constructive manner within the community rules. There are two or more ways to say the same thing. I've kicked several pro-Motorola people off the site because they couldn't say what they wanted to say in an appropriate way. That just results in me having to moderate and distracts me from helping.


I found out about this post because one of the MOTOXPRTs brought it to my attention. Pretty quickly after it was posted, in fact. I'm glad they did. There is no reason that it should have festered to this point. I would have welcomed you to have asked it sooner before it bothered you so much. Smile


The NDA doesn't expire even after the soak test ends. What happens in soak stays in soak. The lack of access to that thread doesn't have anything to do with the change in the forum. It is typical SOP to turn off the soak test communities after the soak has ended and restore your access to the public community.


I'm not a PR person and work as hard as I can to provide non PR answers. Certainly there are limitations I have. I, as much as you, do not like PR-speak.


So let's move forward from here Smile



I agree in moving forward from here. If you can do everything in your power to see what this software does on our phones, and maybe if possible some kind of written statement about it, that would be great. I will also rustle some feathers at US Cellular and see if I can gather any info as well. I don't want to be the one proclaiming the sky is falling down, but with the whole Carrier IQ thing last year, and (if you can see it from my point of view) the revelation that some kind of monitoring was happening on my device, I am - for lack of a better word - Concerned about it. I am sure you as well as I would want a final answer on the apps I listed and why they need permissions to pretty much all my private information stored on my phone (as well as my SD Cards). 


Call me paranoid if you will about it, but if questions don't get asked in the first place then we can just sit here and speculate and conspiracy theorize all we want. Again thanks for your "non PR" replies, and I hope this dialog can be the start of getting the answers we all want..


The last thing I want is this thread to turn into a troll fest or a heated argument...


Smiley Happy 


 

Motorola Admin Motorola Admin
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Message 17 of 54

Re: Time to come Clean Motorola (Electrify - Blur ROMS)

Reading through this thread and glad to see it come to such a civil point in the conversation. I will add that I personally understand any relate to privacy concerns -- I don't see how anyone could think that privacy isn't a huge issue. Cythrawl, early in this thread you expressed concern that we might remove the thread. Hope you realize that we're here to engage as much as possible. It's just that we're only two guys and we can't really cover the waterfront as well as we would like to.

Please do not PM me - if you have issues, search the forums for threads on your topic and post there, or start a new thread. Thanks!
cythrawl
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Location: United States
Views: 503
Message 18 of 54

Re: Time to come Clean Motorola (Electrify - Blur ROMS)

This is me bumping this thread to see if anyone at Motorola has found anything out about the APK's I have listed in the Original OP...


 

Mark_Emeritus Moto Emeritus
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Message 19 of 54

Re: Time to come Clean Motorola (Electrify - Blur ROMS)

I'm attaching two images. You should see these right after you log in successfully to your Google Account. This is what I saw on my Photon 4G. The login is essentially the same as the Electrify. With recent/upcoming updates on some of our devices I have also seen an option to opt-out of information gathering though that option isn't on my Photon 4G currently. I'm trying to get details about the additional check box that I see on one of my other phones.


I'm still waiting on some additional information for you but I wanted to update this for you in the mean time. If you reset your device again and set it up to get to the home screen you would see the screen I have indicated.


Mark
Support Forums Manager 

Mark
Former Employee
cythrawl
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Location: United States
Views: 503
Message 20 of 54

Re: Time to come Clean Motorola (Electrify - Blur ROMS)

Ok here is a shot by shot (in order) for the Electrify startup after a master reset.


https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/115574916584052955943/albums/5703848631581700417/5703848631161689...


The only time that EULA will come up is if you try to add another account other than Google using the Add Account option. The Photos were taken in order and as you can see Data Collector Serivce has already gathered data with JUST adding a Google Account.


When I went back into Add Account and clicked on the Facebook Icon is when I finally got the EULA.


The fact is, it is gathering data before the EULA is displayed to the customer.


At best this is still a passive consent. Reading that EULA its still pretty hard to find that Motorola can and WILL collect data about you if you use this service.. The fact is that I dont. I add Facebook App and use that instead. I use K9Mail if I want to use Email. Those services are still collecting data even if I DONT add an account and DONT agree to the terms and conditions..


Fact is I dont have Motoblur on my phone at all as I am using CM7 (these shots were done using another Electrify), but the fact that it is in Motorola's Stock ROM bothers me. It bothers me every day when I see someone with an Electrify walk out of a store. They have NO CLUE about this at all. Hence the point of my main post, and that I think that it needs to be made public and not hidden inside some EULA...