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scumbuster
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Posts: 82
Registered: ‎04-03-2018
Location: US
Views: 520
Message 1 of 20

Please give Moto G5 Plus owners an option to opt out of Oreo update

I have been preetty vocal here in regards to the forced "Upgrade" to Oreo.

 

I DO NOT WANT IT.

 

I just spent a half hour on the chat and phone to try and find some way to stop these incessant "upgrade to Oreo now?" messages.

 

My phone is an important tool at my work. A crictical app at work has been show to NOT WORK with Oreo very well.

 

I do not have the time or inclination to have to track down all the problems that can and will happenb after "upgrading".

 

Force-fitting a new OS to a phone that was designed around Nougat is RIDICULOUS.

 

I feel like I have ben bait-and-switched...I bought a phone with Nougat...it works well so far for what I need it to do.  There were some small issues that arose after security updates.  I had to waste my time there, which is bad enough.  But now I am being told I "MUST UPGRADE"  and therefore setting me up for all sorts of issues and additional work?

 

This is not right.

 

There is no reason that a "remind me in 30 days" button cant be added to the notification that lets us stop the repeated notifications.

 

Again, I DO NOT WANT OREO.

 

WIll a developer PLEASE reply?  

Moto Sr Moderator
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Message 2 of 20

Re: Please give Moto G5 Plus owners an option to opt out of Oreo update


@scumbuster wrote:

I have been preetty vocal here in regards to the forced "Upgrade" to Oreo.

 

I DO NOT WANT IT.

 

I just spent a half hour on the chat and phone to try and find some way to stop these incessant "upgrade to Oreo now?" messages.

 

My phone is an important tool at my work. A crictical app at work has been show to NOT WORK with Oreo very well.

 

I do not have the time or inclination to have to track down all the problems that can and will happenb after "upgrading".

 

Force-fitting a new OS to a phone that was designed around Nougat is RIDICULOUS.

 

I feel like I have ben bait-and-switched...I bought a phone with Nougat...it works well so far for what I need it to do.  There were some small issues that arose after security updates.  I had to waste my time there, which is bad enough.  But now I am being told I "MUST UPGRADE"  and therefore setting me up for all sorts of issues and additional work?

 

This is not right.

 

There is no reason that a "remind me in 30 days" button cant be added to the notification that lets us stop the repeated notifications.

 

Again, I DO NOT WANT OREO.

 

WIll a developer PLEASE reply?  


This is a user to user forum. Although some Motorola employees do visit the forums, I doubt a developer will weigh in. I will pass on your concerns. 


But I would not say a phone is designed around Nougat. Designed for Android yes, but the OS changes between releases are not that major. There are phones being released today with lower specs running Oreo, and most of those that have update the G5 to Oreo are claiming better battery life. 

 

And this new OS is not so new anymore. Many business won't let users with older OS connect to their network. 


* Search box is your friend * I don't respond to PM if question belongs in forum
scumbuster
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Message 3 of 20

Re: Please give Moto G5 Plus owners an option to opt out of Oreo update


@AlphaDog wrote:

@scumbuster

This is a user to user forum. Although some Motorola employees do visit the forums, I doubt a developer will weigh in. I will pass on your concerns. 


But I would not say a phone is designed around Nougat. Designed for Android yes, but the OS changes between releases are not that major. There are phones being released today with lower specs running Oreo, and most of those that have update the G5 to Oreo are claiming better battery life. 

 

And this new OS is not so new anymore. Many business won't let users with older OS connect to their network. 


Thanks for your reply.

 

But where do I start.....  Smiley Happy  APologize for my ranting here, but this is a serious concern for me.

 

Ok --- the forum thing.    This forum is located on "Lenovo.com".......not some site off in the web somewhere.   When a user is looking for support, where is the first place he goes? To the manufacturer site.   What is the point of having a support forum on the manufacturers site when no one representing the manufacturer ever HELPS anyone?  Calling level one or level two support simply gets the same "we cant do anything" BS answer.  So why even HAVE a forum if no one from the manufacturer ever reads or helps with the myriad of issues there are?  The fact that one user has to "pass on"" other user's requests/concerns on a MANUFACTURER BASED FORUM is just a slap in the face....it indicates that the manufacturer techs are hidden behind a wall of secrecy.  Whatever happened to real tech support?

 

"Most of those upgraded to Oreo are fine"......really?  How would anyone deduce that?    Yes, typically user forums are biased towards users with problems.......I agree.   And tyoically people with no isees are not persuing a user forum just to say that.

But that said, there are already many many new users logging on to this forum in the past few weeks (judging by the poist counts they have) complaining.  Those are new people who have major issues and need help and end up here.  NOT EVERYONE WILL END UP POSTING THAT THEY HAVE ISSUES ON THIS FORUM.

 

"Designed around Nougat" ---   Actually, yeah, that is exactly the case. 

 

When a product is designed -- any product, but especially electronics requiring an OS -- the designers sit down with a list of requirements that the new product needs to have/do and what is available to them in order to make that happen.  The OS is a SUBSTANTIAL piece to the new product puzzle.     An OS is designed to work "best" with a certain set of parameters in the hardware perspective.     A computerized device is typically designed with a new processor and bus design etc so as to work well with the latest/greatest OS.   

 

As an example -- How many brand new PCs do you see on the market that are shipped with Windows XP?  None.  They are all designed around Windows 10 now.....with some "backward compatibility". But, when an OS is designed, it is designed with certain hardware parameters in mind as well.   Windows 10 will not run on a PC from 1990. Period.

 

So to say that the Moto G5/G5 plus "wasn't" designed with Nougat in mind when that is the OS that the phone was released with native...well it's just plain wrong.   

 

NO MANUFACTURER can build a piece of hardware that is guaranteed to work with FUTURE operating system redesigns.   When a new OS is released, the OS manufacturer typically provides support to the hardware manufacturers so as to allow trying and shoehorn the new OS into the old hardware for a time......but only so as to make it so the old hardware is not immediately stale on the store shelves.

 

The fact that Oreoe didn't IMMEDIATELY fit right into the Moto G5 Plus phones we have is proof enough--- much recoding, bridging, tweaking and shoehorning was required to get Oreo to even possibly work with the G5 Plus.

 

The fact that there are many many many new threads every day on this and other forums complaining about Oreo on the G5 Plus (and other old phones) is clear indication that we are simply being used as forced beta tester guinea pigs and that the hardware DOES indeed make a difference.

 

I have been building PCs for 30 years and its always been a very solid rule --- trying to retrofit the newest software into older hardware is usually a real PITA and the hardware usually ends up running worse because of all the bridging and patching that has to happen to make it work. Sometimes it can be done, but it takes time and effort and luck.  Back then manufacturers took on that burden (or didnt) and only released drivers for older hardware with a new OS when they were ready for prime time.  Nowadays, one person cries "We want the newest OS!" and the manfacturers take that as an invite to sign us ALL up for FORCED BETA TESTING!

 

Consider the automobile as an extreme example --  You cannot take a stock model T ford (let's call the car the "hardware" and expect to simply plug in in a 2018 Lamborghini engine (let's call this engine  the OS) and expect the car to work -- or look -- as designed.   It can be done....but a major amount of redesign  and changes have to be done to make it functional.  And even then, sacrifices will be made in the original design of both the car and the engine to marry them together.   Braking, fuel, steering systems -- pretty much every aspect of the car has to be changed to make that engine function and work.

 

Maybe aples to oranges on the surface  but the concept is the same ....computing is no different.   Hardware is designed to work with a certain OS.  Anything newer can be MADE to maybe work, but with sacrifices, typically.

 

Proof of that -- it took HOW LONG for Oreo to be "available" for the Moto G5 plus? 

 

Exactly.

 

I do not think that asking for a way to shut off the perpetual "Upgrade?" prompts....I have had 5 just in the last hour this morning!!!!!......is asking too much.   If my business network decides to block me because I am running Nougat (doubtful) then at that time I can make an infoirmed decision.

 

In the meantime, going on what I have experienced before and what apparently other users are finding , "upgrading" to Oreo is NOT 1-2-3 done.....and in fact may brick the device.

 

WE SHOULD HAVE THE CHOICE WHETHER TO RISK THAT OR NOT!!!! We should have the CHOICE whether to have to sign up to dedicate HOURS of our free time to get our phones functional again.

And , you said "the OS changes between releases are not that major." --- if that's the case , why so many MAJOR problems? And if these are only minor tweaks, why REQUIRE and FORCE the "upgrade"?  Why even have the "upgrade" at all?

 

Because its cheaper and easier for the manufacturer to do it this way.  And it makes Android and the phone makers more $$$$.

 

A user gives in and the phone bricks, a new phone and Android license has to be bought....a win for Android and the manufactuers.

 

Or, a user says "screw it" and sells the phone and buys a new one with the new OS on it already, it's a win for Android and the manufacturers.

Or, a user "lives with" 300 annoying notifications every day......no net cost for either the manufacturer or Android.

 

Why are so many folks blind to this?

And why, as customers, are we content with the extreme lack of support and real info other than "give us a call" and then being told "there is nothing we can do".  Why aren't Lenovo developer and techs NOT participating here to proivide real help?

 

Again -- WE SHOULD HAVE THE CHOICE. We should have the CHOICE whether to have to sign up to dedicate HOURS of our free time to get our phones functional again.  Given the lack of real tech support and information, even here on a "user to user forum" hosted by LENOVO, the LEAST they should do is give us the CHOICE to opt out for as long as we need.

 

 

jack6128
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Message 4 of 20

Re: Please give Moto G5 Plus owners an option to opt out of Oreo update

Beautiful rant, scumbuster. I love it when someone clearly and forcefully articulates what needs to be said.

tmann202
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Location: US
Views: 352
Message 5 of 20

Re: Please give Moto G5 Plus owners an option to opt out of Oreo update

Totally agree. I was dreading the eventual update and constant notifications. There absolutely should be a way to turn them off. It's ridiculous that there isn't. 

 

I never understand people clamoring for the latest software when the current one works perfectly fine. (OK maybe not perfect - many camera crashes upon launching anyone? - but then they could release a fix for just that on the current software without having to get whole new software and who knows how many other problems.)

scumbuster
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Message 6 of 20

Re: Please give Moto G5 Plus owners an option to opt out of Oreo update


@tmann202 wrote:

Totally agree. I was dreading the eventual update and constant notifications. There absolutely should be a way to turn them off. It's ridiculous that there isn't. 

 

I never understand people clamoring for the latest software when the current one works perfectly fine. (OK maybe not perfect - many camera crashes upon launching anyone? - but then they could release a fix for just that on the current software without having to get whole new software and who knows how many other problems.)


I have an aoocasional camera crash now and then and every so often when I open the multiple windows area, they do not have Xs on them so I can close them....have to exit the area then reopen and they reappear......and every so often I have to restart the phone because it loses connectivity with one of my bluetooth devices....

But I can live with that versus a completely bricked phone , bulging/bursting battery, loss of info etc caused by "upgrading".

Why wont they listen to us?  Or even RESPOND!??!

tmann202
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Message 7 of 20

Re: Please give Moto G5 Plus owners an option to opt out of Oreo update

From another thread, and remember now that I did this with my old Moto X for the same reason: You can turn off the update notifications by going to Settings > Apps > Show system (three dot menu) > Motorola Update Services > Force Stop. 

 

You have to do it whenever the phone is rebooted but better than nothing. 

 

 

Intel_inside
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Message 8 of 20

Re: Please give Moto G5 Plus owners an option to opt out of Oreo update


@scumbuster wrote:

@AlphaDog wrote:

@scumbuster

This is a user to user forum. Although some Motorola employees do visit the forums, I doubt a developer will weigh in. I will pass on your concerns. 


But I would not say a phone is designed around Nougat. Designed for Android yes, but the OS changes between releases are not that major. There are phones being released today with lower specs running Oreo, and most of those that have update the G5 to Oreo are claiming better battery life. 

 

And this new OS is not so new anymore. Many business won't let users with older OS connect to their network. 

 

As an example -- How many brand new PCs do you see on the market that are shipped with Windows XP?  None.  They are all designed around Windows 10 now.....with some "backward compatibility". But, when an OS is designed, it is designed with certain hardware parameters in mind as well.   Windows 10 will not run on a PC from 1990. Period.

 


Sorry to say, but that's complete nonsense. I do agree that a PC from the 1990s can't run Windows 10, because over these years technology has advanced A LOT and so has our requirements. But this is NOT the same as updating a phone like the G5+ from Android Nougat to Oreo. 

 

"NO MANUFACTURER can build a piece of hardware that is guaranteed to work with FUTURE operating system redesigns.   When a new OS is released, the OS manufacturer typically provides support to the hardware manufacturers so as to allow trying and shoehorn the new OS into the old hardware for a time......but only so as to make it so the old hardware is not immediately stale on the store shelves"

 

Oreo is not a completely new and rebuilt version of Android, and in fact, it's not a huge upgrade from Nougat. If your phone can run 7.0, it can run 8.0 perfectly fine. I managed to run Oreo on my old Moto G 2013, which was launched with Android 4.4 (KitKat), and guess what? It performs faster than it ever did on KitKat. If that toaster can run Oreo perfectly fine, any recent phone can, including the G5+. That's how these incremental updates like Oreo, Pie, etc. are developed - they're made to work with existing hardware without any issues.

 

"But that said, there are already many many new users logging on to this forum in the past few weeks (judging by the poist counts they have) complaining.  Those are new people who have major issues and need help and end up here.  NOT EVERYONE WILL END UP POSTING THAT THEY HAVE ISSUES ON THIS FORUM."

 

Likewise, many people had tons of issues with their phones, even on Nougat. What's your point?

 

"Consider the automobile as an extreme example --  You cannot take a stock model T ford (let's call the car the "hardware" and expect to simply plug in in a 2018 Lamborghini engine (let's call this engine  the OS) and expect the car to work -- or look -- as designed.   It can be done....but a major amount of redesign  and changes have to be done to make it functional.  And even then, sacrifices will be made in the original design of both the car and the engine to marry them together.   Braking, fuel, steering systems -- pretty much every aspect of the car has to be changed to make that engine function and work."

 

Again, this is an entirely different case. We're not talking about making Oreo run on a Nokia 3310.

 

"The fact that there are many many many new threads every day on this and other forums complaining about Oreo on the G5 Plus (and other old phones) is clear indication that we are simply being used as forced beta tester guinea pigs and that the hardware DOES indeed make a difference."

 

It's been around 2 months since I updated my G5s+ to Oreo, and so far I've haven't run into any issues. Both performance and battery life has improved after the update, and moreover, the new features and optimizations introduced with Oreo further enhanced the UX of my phone. 


@scumbuster
scumbuster
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Message 9 of 20

Re: Please give Moto G5 Plus owners an option to opt out of Oreo update

"Sorry to say, but that's complete nonsense. I do agree that a PC from the 1990s can't run Windows 10, because over these years technology has advanced A LOT and so has our requirements. But this is NOT the same as updating a phone like the G5+ from Android Nougat to Oreo. "

 

Well....you can call it nonsense, but its a tried and true concept that still holds true to this day.

 

As you pointed out, A PC from the 90s cannot run W10.  But it goes further than that.   People with PCs that were running Windows 7 just fine in the last few years had MAJOR issues tryuing to update (whther just an update or clean install)  to W10.  

 

Just because an OS publisher has "minimum requirements" listed that may include old(er) technology doesnt mean it runs at its best or even well.

 

Been there, done that many many times.   Your mileage may vary, but all I can do is speak from my years of experience.

 

When hardware is designed it is bult around the newest OS available.

 

Unless the manufacturer has a crystal ball, they have NO IDEA what the needs of a new OS two or three years down the road will require.

 

You believe that the phone world is different.....it's not.

 

 

"Oreo is not a completely new and rebuilt version of Android, and in fact, it's not a huge upgrade from Nougat. If your phone can run 7.0, it can run 8.0 perfectly fine. I managed to run Oreo on my old Moto G 2013, which was launched with Android 4.4 (KitKat), and guess what? It performs faster than it ever did on KitKat. If that toaster can run Oreo perfectly fine, any recent phone can, including the G5+. That's how these incremental updates like Oreo, Pie, etc. are developed - they're made to work with existing hardware without any issues."

 

SO many thinsg to nit pick in what you said there....but I'll try....

 

a) if its not a completely rebuilt version of the OS and just a minor update then what exactly is the reason to give it its own name

 

b) even minor updates of an OS can cause havoc with a device

 

c)"managing" to run a new OS on an old piece of hardware, again, doesnt mean it works right or well.  If it does for you, great, but i would be interested to see how you tested and benchmarked in order to make the assertion that it runs "better" than the original OS.  UNLESS of course the original OS install and apps had issues to begin with , which taints the comparison.

 

d) "they are made to work with existing hardware without any issues" --- ok....then explain the hundreds of recent complaints of major issues.  Yes, I know that Moto sells "100s of thosands of devices" and "most forums are full of complaints and do not show how many people are happy".....that was drilled into me by the level 1, 2 and 3 techs when I called.    But he point is that if there are hundreds of new complaints on this forum right after a push of a new OS, that says that there are people who are NOT finding what you say to be true.

 

 

"It's been around 2 months since I updated my G5s+ to Oreo, and so far I've haven't run into any issues. Both performance and battery life has improved after the update, and moreover, the new features and optimizations introduced with Oreo further enhanced the UX of my phone. "

 

Well, bully for you.   Smiley Happy    Explain to the folks posting with problems how its all in their minds r their own fault somehow, since if YOU have had no issues, SURELY there are no issues out there.   Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

 

This "brave new world" where manufacturers expect the customer to have to absorb the time and costs involved with CONSTANTLY changing the OS for no apparant reasons other than tro allow new product to be sold is something us old timers are not comfortable or happy with.  We come from a world where you plan technology changes and mitigate whatever you can, accepting risk only when it makes sense.   Nowadays, its a "lets just run it and see what falls out".    Some may be comfortable with that appproach...as you seem to be .....I am not.

 

We can leave it there.

 

This all said -- I spent a considerable amount of time on the phone yesterday with a Moto level 3 tech supervisor.

 

After we got through all of his recitation of the boilerplate he has to say (inclduing the part about how technically Moto and Android own the rights to change the phone you and I bought at ANY time and if it bricks, well, that is just the lumps that come with thye contract you and I "sign" when we spend our hard earned money on one of these devices), he basically said he understood what I was saying but that "it is what it is".   We discussed options and he confirmed that if my phone were to brick, and if my phone were under warranty, I would eventually get a refurbished (someone else's problem phone) in exchange that they would set up and test.  It would have the remainder of any orginal warranty of my original phone.

 

HE also confirmed that eventually the OS "upgrade" would happen automatically -- which is exactly what happened to my Samsung $800+ flagship phone which bricked it out of warranty.

 

So it made sense to try it now rather than wait.

 

Did the update yesterday.  It said it would take 10 minutes....more like 30......and thats with clearing my cache and uninstalling most of my apps and then restarting.

 

So far, things work ok. It didnt brick so far.  It did feel hot while doing the "upgrade".

 

Nothing new that makes any difference to me so far to have wanted to go thru the risk, other than now I wont see all the notifications to "upgrade to oreo".

 

Battery life, though, so far seems worse....charged it to 100% after the update and was at less than 50% by a few hours later , albeit that with some email and text usage along with Pandora/bluetooth.

 

100% charge  this morning when I left my house and was already down to 90%.   an hour later after my commute....All I was doing was using Pandora to play music via bluetooth because I was driving -- no texts, no emails etc..   Before the "upgrade" I would be at 97% after my commute. Dropped down to 89% after sitting idle for a good 45 minutes.  So I guess time will tell, hopefully it will stablize.

 

Going to start installing my required apps again and see what happens.

 

 

scumbuster
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Message 10 of 20

Re: Please give Moto G5 Plus owners an option to opt out of Oreo update

So, now, less than 24 hrs later after this big, great , shiny new OREO update was installed, I am not getting ANOTHER "update" notification, this time purportedly for Oct security updates.

 

This sucks.

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