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pav1
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Registered: ‎09-09-2015
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Message 71 of 107

Re: What are the odds for Motorola to make the 4th gen Z family?


@Covek wrote:

@pav1 wrote:

@Covek  Why does Motorola have an obsession with mid-tier processors?  I read somewhere that they were the top selling brand of unlocked Android phones in the US...  Seriously!!?  If this is true why don't they offer an unlocked version of their top-tier models with a Qualcomm 8xx chip !?!

 

Can someone at Motorola please explain their product marketing strategy because I just can't make any sense of it.

 


Costumes don't buy top-tier phones unlocked because it's to much 💰. Carriers always subsidies the top tier phones in order to lure you in.

Moto G is the reason why MotoLevo is the best selling unlocked Phone in the USA. This year Samsung will try to take the 👑 with it's M/A series phone.


My point had to do with the worldwide availability of unlocked phones equipped with top tier processors. For several years, Motorola made available the flagship Moto X  and Moto Z lineup in both carrier and unlocked variants.  However, in the US, the last two releases of the flagship Z (Z2 Force & Z3) are sold exclusively as carrier locked phones.  I don't buy the argument that only unlocked phones with mid-tier specs are the only ones that sell.  There's plenty of other manufacturers offering unlocked Qualcomm 8xx phones - but Motorola doesn't seem to be one of them.

Covek
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Message 72 of 107

Re: What are the odds for Motorola to make the 4th gen Z family?

Motorola can't afford to take the risk of offering unlocked version of it's flagship. They haven't got the band recognison any more. The only way for them to sell their flagship is by letting the carrier do the advertisement and offers. Apple, Samsung, Google has brand recognition so they can offer their phone unlocked with confidence. HTC, LG still offered it last year but look at the price they paid for their mistake.

pav1
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Message 73 of 107

Re: What are the odds for Motorola to make the 4th gen Z family?


@Covek wrote:

Motorola can't afford to take the risk of offering unlocked version of it's flagship. They haven't got the band recognison any more. The only way for them to sell their flagship is by letting the carrier do the advertisement and offers. Apple, Samsung, Google has brand recognition so they can offer their phone unlocked with confidence. HTC, LG still offered it last year but look at the price they paid for their mistake.


Where's the "risk" here? It's simply a matter of offering the same hardware for sale both with and without the carriers' (software) lock and subsidies.  Motorola can charge more for their unlocked variant and it won't change the fact that their cost for each phone remains the same. They can still sell the subsidized (locked) version through carriers.  If anything, they would make more money on the unlocked version because of the higher markup. They have been offering locked and unlocked options of their flaghip phone for years in the USA. But after the Moto Z this practice stopped.


My point is that an unlocked Motorola flagship SHOULD be an available option for US consumers.

Covek
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Message 74 of 107

Re: What are the odds for Motorola to make the 4th gen Z family?

When you sell via carriers they buy the phone from the OEM for a reduced price before selling it = guaranteed sell for the OEM with minimal profit. If you sell it unlocked you get a higher profit but can end up with a lots of unsold unit which will result in loosing profit = risk. Motorola haven't been able to sell it flagships in the last few years hence the decision to offer it via carriers.

pav1
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Message 75 of 107

Re: What are the odds for Motorola to make the 4th gen Z family?


@Covek wrote:

When you sell via carriers they buy the phone from the OEM for a reduced price before selling it = guaranteed sell for the OEM with minimal profit. If you sell it unlocked you get a higher profit but can end up with a lots of unsold unit which will result in loosing profit = risk. Motorola haven't been able to sell it flagships in the last few years hence the decision to offer it via carriers.


When the Z2 Force was released, it was available both unlocked AND carrier subsidized. Eventually, the unlocked version was no longer available for sale - perhaps because it was so popular that it sold out (!?!).  In the US, the Z3 Flagship is exclusive to Verizon and doesn't seem to be available in any other markets (including Brazil, their largest market). How does limiting a flagship product to JUST ONE COUNTRY and ONE CARRIER help profitability?

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Message 76 of 107

Re: What are the odds for Motorola to make the 4th gen Z family?


@pav1 wrote:

@Covek wrote:

When you sell via carriers they buy the phone from the OEM for a reduced price before selling it = guaranteed sell for the OEM with minimal profit. If you sell it unlocked you get a higher profit but can end up with a lots of unsold unit which will result in loosing profit = risk. Motorola haven't been able to sell it flagships in the last few years hence the decision to offer it via carriers.


When the Z2 Force was released, it was available both unlocked AND carrier subsidized. Eventually, the unlocked version was no longer available for sale - perhaps because it was so popular that it sold out (!?!).  In the US, the Z3 Flagship is exclusive to Verizon and doesn't seem to be available in any other markets (including Brazil, their largest market). How does limiting a flagship product to JUST ONE COUNTRY and ONE CARRIER help profitability?


If high end unlocked phones sold well, Moto woud still be doing it. They would build more in to meet demand. I am sure it sold out as unlocked (I never saw this option in the USA for Z2F), but likely it didn't sell well enough to build more. If it were a cash cow, they would keep doing it. 

 

As for Z3, my guess is that Verizon wanted it, others didn't. And like passed Droid phones, Verizon paid for exclusivity.  Better to make a deal with one carrier then have a bunch of inventory that has to be sold below cost. 

 

No one here has the inside scoop, but if things were selling well, they would be sold with more variations. Mid-tier seems to be what is really selling well. 

 

 


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pav1
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Message 77 of 107

Re: What are the odds for Motorola to make the 4th gen Z family?


@AlphaDog

 

As for Z3, my guess is that Verizon wanted it, others didn't. And like passed Droid phones, Verizon paid for exclusivity.  Better to make a deal with one carrier then have a bunch of inventory that has to be sold below cost. 

 

No one here has the inside scoop, but if things were selling well, they would be sold with more variations. Mid-tier seems to be what is really selling well. 

 

 


I've switched back to my OG Moto Z after spending a week with my new Moto Z3 Play.  I also recently upgraded my spouse's phone to an X4 (from a 2014 Moto X) and can honestly say the performance improvement wasn't as noticeable as expected.  My family and I have been dedicated Motorola customers since 2013 and have owned all the Moto X models, the OG Moto G, Moto G4, Moto Z, and most recently the Moto Z3 Play.  For my family members, they are already complaining about performance issues (slow response, camera delays) because of their (mid-tier) phones.  As a power user, I have always owned UNLOCKED "flagship" (8xx chipset) phones and have been generally happy with their performance - with the exception of the "unlocked" Z3 Play. 
If "mid-tier" is an indication of where Motorola is heading with their unlocked products, I'm going to have a difficult time  maintaining my dedication to this brand.

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Message 78 of 107

Re: What are the odds for Motorola to make the 4th gen Z family?


@pav1 wrote:

@AlphaDog

 

As for Z3, my guess is that Verizon wanted it, others didn't. And like passed Droid phones, Verizon paid for exclusivity.  Better to make a deal with one carrier then have a bunch of inventory that has to be sold below cost. 

 

No one here has the inside scoop, but if things were selling well, they would be sold with more variations. Mid-tier seems to be what is really selling well. 

 

 


I've switched back to my OG Moto Z after spending a week with my new Moto Z3 Play.  I also recently upgraded my spouse's phone to an X4 (from a 2014 Moto X) and can honestly say the performance improvement wasn't as noticeable as expected.  My family and I have been dedicated Motorola customers since 2013 and have owned all the Moto X models, the OG Moto G, Moto G4, Moto Z, and most recently the Moto Z3 Play.  For my family members, they are already complaining about performance issues (slow response, camera delays) because of their (mid-tier) phones.  As a power user, I have always owned UNLOCKED "flagship" (8xx chipset) phones and have been generally happy with their performance - with the exception of the "unlocked" Z3 Play. 
If "mid-tier" is an indication of where Motorola is heading with their unlocked products, I'm going to have a difficult time  maintaining my dedication to this brand.


I would look for other causes aside from the mid-tier processor. My Z2 Play is as snappy as my Z2F. My Z2 Play has some really crappy business apps too that are memory pigs - so i do have to reboot maybe once a month. 

I have had the G line phones and they always performed well for me too. But i wonder if people have lots of background stuff running and don't realize it. Facebook has always been a resource pig and Whatsapp has had its own issues. I am sure there are many other apps that contribute to poor performance. 

I like having the fastest processor, but for me the midrange phones seem to perform just as well for most applications. 


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pav1
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Message 79 of 107

Re: What are the odds for Motorola to make the 4th gen Z family?


@AlphaDog wrote:

@pav1 wrote:

@AlphaDog

 

As for Z3, my guess is that Verizon wanted it, others didn't. And like passed Droid phones, Verizon paid for exclusivity.  Better to make a deal with one carrier then have a bunch of inventory that has to be sold below cost. 

 

No one here has the inside scoop, but if things were selling well, they would be sold with more variations. Mid-tier seems to be what is really selling well. 

 

 


I've switched back to my OG Moto Z after spending a week with my new Moto Z3 Play.  I also recently upgraded my spouse's phone to an X4 (from a 2014 Moto X) and can honestly say the performance improvement wasn't as noticeable as expected.  My family and I have been dedicated Motorola customers since 2013 and have owned all the Moto X models, the OG Moto G, Moto G4, Moto Z, and most recently the Moto Z3 Play.  For my family members, they are already complaining about performance issues (slow response, camera delays) because of their (mid-tier) phones.  As a power user, I have always owned UNLOCKED "flagship" (8xx chipset) phones and have been generally happy with their performance - with the exception of the "unlocked" Z3 Play. 
If "mid-tier" is an indication of where Motorola is heading with their unlocked products, I'm going to have a difficult time  maintaining my dedication to this brand.


I would look for other causes aside from the mid-tier processor. My Z2 Play is as snappy as my Z2F. My Z2 Play has some really crappy business apps too that are memory pigs - so i do have to reboot maybe once a month. 

I have had the G line phones and they always performed well for me too. But i wonder if people have lots of background stuff running and don't realize it. Facebook has always been a resource pig and Whatsapp has had its own issues. I am sure there are many other apps that contribute to poor performance. 

I like having the fastest processor, but for me the midrange phones seem to perform just as well for most applications. 


I run and test lots of apps on my phones.  Having to limit my apps because of the mid-tier chipset is not an option for me. Besides that, there's other unlocked brands equipped with 8xx chipsets available for sale at mid-tier prices (e.g. Huawei, Xiaomi, LG, older OnePlus and even older Pixel models). I have always stayed true to the Moto brand but I refuse to make excuses for compromised designs due to market demands; there's plenty of other brands that do that sort of thing already.

 

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Message 80 of 107

Re: What are the odds for Motorola to make the 4th gen Z family?


 wrote:

 


I run and test lots of apps on my phones.  Having to limit my apps because of the mid-tier chipset is not an option for me. Besides that, there's other unlocked brands equipped with 8xx chipsets available for sale at mid-tier prices (e.g. Huawei, Xiaomi, LG, older OnePlus and even older Pixel models). I have always stayed true to the Moto brand but I refuse to make excuses for compromised designs due to market demands; there's plenty of other brands that do that sort of thing already.


I am a firm believer in buying what you need.  If you must have an 8x chip, then that is what you should buy. I run and test a lot of apps as well and I haven't seen a performance difference between the chips in my environment. 

 

Market demand though will always dictate design. If a company builds something that doesn't sell, they won't keep building it. 

 


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