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95 Posts

03-06-2021

Germany

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Re:T14 AMD battery drain in standby (Linux)

2021-04-13, 9:39 AM

@ jd_user wrote:

Interestingly, we now have two different errors reported:

 

  1. ...Current lifespan mode: RT. Expected lifespan mode: LS1_4
  2. ...Current lifespan mode: RT. Expected lifespan mode: LS1_2

Questions:

  1. What is "RT"?
  2. What are the "LS1_2" and "LS1_4"?

 

I don't know for sure what that means exactly, because I cannot find any documentation

on that from Lenovo, but for me, it looks like, RT is the MAX runtime mode and modes

like LS1_X ( where 1 is probably BAT1 ) are modes like MAX life, etc. 

 

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95 Posts

03-06-2021

Germany

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Re:T14 AMD battery drain in standby (Linux)

2021-04-13, 9:55 AM

@ aproximacion wrote:

All of this is really frustrating.

Mark, do you have anything to say about it?

You' just the public face. Seems like you' told to calm the audience very very slowly until they get tired about it.

 

Thinkpad T series used to be military-grade machines.

I can' believe that I' been subscribed to this thread for months concerning a trivial battery issue without any real updates on the issue.

Where' Lenovo money going?

 

Well, it is but we need to have some patience.

The problem is not Mark nor the BIOS/FW teams.

 

Supporting another operating system takes time and it

takes time to create the infra ( internally ). 

 

The best we can do is to report bugs, and solutions if possible,

and try to communicate as friendly as possible with the few people

are acting as a proxy between us and the FW teams.

 

If I'm not mistaken Mark is even working on the kernel side of things,

eg: thinkpad_acpi modules.

 

Also, some information may be under NDA or similar, not everything 

is as easy as it seems to be.

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470 Posts

07-22-2019

Canada

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Re:T14 AMD battery drain in standby (Linux)

2021-04-13, 10:22 AM

Thanks @osnix :)

 

@aproximacion  - for clarification I'm the technical lead for the Linux PC team. My job involves a lot of different things (including some coding when I get time) - but I'm not really a 'public facing' person in the traditional sense as I'm on the engineering side; the forum is important to me and improving the experince of Linux on our platforms is really important to me so I spend a bunch of time here (and encourage my team to do likewise).

 

My aim is not to just calm things down until people go away - I want this fixed . As an aside this issue has gated me getting this system online with Linux (I'm assuming you brought it with Windows). That's really important for our Linux program which is still in it's early days - so it's really not just about dragging this issue on forever. 

As an aside, there's also a *ton* of stuff I don't know about - I've worked with Linux for ~20 years, but PCs have a lot in them (and there's something new every day) - batteries and their behaviour has been a new topic for me to learn about. I really appreciate all the support we get from the Linux community because it makes a huge difference.

 

This particular issue has I agree been too long in the solving - I'm optimistic we're going to take a step forward soon. The biggest problem was it took such a long time to understand the issue and for the firmware team to reproduce it. I have some sympathy there as I struggled with it myself with seemingly erratic results. I know having all the notes from the community has really helped and I suspect without many of the details provided we'd still not be there yet - so thank you to everybody who helped. I disagree with your assertion that it's trivial but I do understand your frustration :)

 

As a note - I haven't really got my head around all the battery testing details people are posting. I will look at those.

 

Mark

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22 Posts

01-23-2021

Argentina

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Re:T14 AMD battery drain in standby (Linux)

2021-04-13, 11:28 AM

Yeah sorry. I understand. Actually I've been patient and hopeful, but I got really mad while reading people trying to understand battery modes in the UEFI test by themselves without any official reference.

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37 Posts

09-04-2010

netherland

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Re:T14 AMD battery drain in standby (Linux)

2021-04-13, 13:12 PM

I was in to buy a T14  on the end of last year, when I  found this forum and the issue's.

 

What I don't understand is why Lenovo  does not exchange two or three laptops with this issue, from people here, for further investigation.

At least they don't need months to reproduce the problem, when they got a few laptops from people who had reported the issue.

The problem is directly visible and makes troubleshooting more directly.

It would be nice if someone directly involved in testing from Lenovo comes to the forum as well, and lots more can be tested and short communication lines

makes things faster. Lots of knowledge here, lets help each other. Now it looks things goes so slow.

 

 

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95 Posts

03-06-2021

Germany

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Re:T14 AMD battery drain in standby (Linux)

2021-04-13, 14:10 PM

@ MarkRHPearson wrote:

Thanks @osnix :)

 

@aproximacion  - for clarification I' the technical lead for the Linux PC team. My job involves a lot of different things (including some coding when I get time) - but I' not really a ' facing' person in the traditional sense as I' on the engineering side; the forum is important to me and improving the experince of Linux on our platforms is really important to me so I spend a bunch of time here (and encourage my team to do likewise).

 

My aim is not to just calm things down until people go away - I want this fixed . As an aside this issue has gated me getting this system online with Linux (I' assuming you brought it with Windows). That' really important for our Linux program which is still in it' early days - so it' really not just about dragging this issue on forever. 

As an aside, there' also a *ton* of stuff I don' know about - I' worked with Linux for ~20 years, but PCs have a lot in them (and there' something new every day) - batteries and their behaviour has been a new topic for me to learn about. I really appreciate all the support we get from the Linux community because it makes a huge difference.

 

This particular issue has I agree been too long in the solving - I' optimistic we' going to take a step forward soon. The biggest problem was it took such a long time to understand the issue and for the firmware team to reproduce it. I have some sympathy there as I struggled with it myself with seemingly erratic results. I know having all the notes from the community has really helped and I suspect without many of the details provided we' still not be there yet - so thank you to everybody who helped. I disagree with your assertion that it' trivial but I do understand your frustration :)

 

As a note - I haven' really got my head around all the battery testing details people are posting. I will look at those.

 

This will be a bit off-topic ( a bit much :P ).

 

Mark, I understand you very well. Also, thank you for the effort of being the proxy for now :).

 

I do work with Linux myself from back in 1998, and I still learn every day.

I've put together at least 12 custom Distributions for random companies, as

well contributed to kernel code, when my times allow.

 

From my experience, every single vendor with 'Linux' support of any sort, is doing that wrong.

The only ecosystem learned from the past is the Android development. ( not saying they do that 100%

right because is simple, not true, but the model is now fine ).

 

Every Vendor is locking itself out of the great support they could have directly from the Linux

developers & the community in large.

 

Let me explain:

 

Supporting 'Linux'  means to support a 'mainline kernel' from a version on, this is

why LTS mainline kernels exist. Supporting a 'Distribution' is not the same as supporting

a mainline kernel, bc often such a Distribution as Ubuntu, RH, Fedora uses 'frankenstein'

kernels with a hell of unusual things in it, sometimes even breaking userland APIs, etc.

 

IOW, a Vendor should support the latest LTS *mainline* kernel++, have a minimum

mesa/X/wayland ( and Nvidia release for Linux ) version they support and that is.

If that works every Distribution on the planet with the minimum requirement will just work.

 

From the BIOS ACPI point of view, as long is following the spec Linux should just work.

(Yes, I know restructuring the BIOS is something challenging that will take a long time.) 

 

Striking deals with Distributions after that, is a different matter, really.

 

The Distribution used should not matter if the Vendor support 'Linux'.

 

The advantage should be obvious. Less development cost, faster development, 

full community support, bug reports are taken upstream too, and a lot more :-).

 

Also if you ask me, I would create some 'community tester/beta program'  and 

recruit some Linux users who are willing to test pre-released FW, ( maybe SW at some point ).

 

Gabriel

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95 Posts

03-06-2021

Germany

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Re:T14 AMD battery drain in standby (Linux)

2021-04-13, 14:18 PM

@ heian wrote:

I was in to buy a T14  on the end of last year, when I  found this forum and the issue'.

 

What I don' understand is why Lenovo  does not exchange two or three laptops with this issue, from people here, for further investigation.

At least they don' need months to reproduce the problem, when they got a few laptops from people who had reported the issue.

The problem is directly visible and makes troubleshooting more directly.

It would be nice if someone directly involved in testing from Lenovo comes to the forum as well, and lots more can be tested and short communication lines

makes things faster. Lots of knowledge here, lets help each other. Now it looks things goes so slow.

 

 

 

You need people with good Linux knowledge and debugging skills in the team,

to be able to understand the problem. Just collecting the affected Laptops won't help.

 

I worked with some other Vendors and I can tell you, even when that looks slow, it is for

the way the certification & testing works internally  'very fast' :).

 

We need to give Lenovo time :). I think they are on a good way but they need to start supporting

Linux and not random Distributions.

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470 Posts

07-22-2019

Canada

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Re:T14 AMD battery drain in standby (Linux)

2021-04-13, 16:46 PM

@osnix - whilst I want to respond to this but it is quite off topic for the battery topic which is followed by quite a few people - so I suggest this should be a new topic (and I don't think I have the abilities to fork a thread and move it to a new post)

If you want a response and discussion (it's a great topic) please repost this as a new thread and I'll jump in there. I'll save this thread for the folk looking for the AMD battery solutions :)

 

Mark

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37 Posts

09-04-2010

netherland

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Re:T14 AMD battery drain in standby (Linux)

2021-04-13, 17:14 PM

As a technician I know that it could be a complicated task.

 

But if the battery drains so much current, it must be possible to measure.  E.g. measure the current thought the display, wireless module, fingerprint reader and so on and compare the results with an exactly the same new laptop. (it can be done with a bunch of good Fluke handheld multimeters). Chances are they notice a higher current drain on a specific part in the laptop that was faulty.

 

If that is not an option, at least they could swap PCB's or individual parts from a good laptop with the faulty laptop and see if there is any difference. (e.g. if a defective part is placed in a previous good laptop, then that laptop will show a high drain as well). They can sort out a lot of possibilities by doing that, and it is not very difficult. Or replace items for new one, and check if the current from the battery reduces. Without a defective device, all is not possible!  

 

If there was someone from Lenovo that could explain immediately what means the fault codes, at least someone can dig deeper into troubleshooting. That is what I mean by pro-active. It looks like (almost) we are talking to a brick wall, while you guys doing lots of troubleshooting!

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24 Posts

12-04-2020

Portugal

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Re:T14 AMD battery drain in standby (Linux)

2021-04-13, 17:20 PM

I must say that apart from this draining issue ( being a laptop - It is  not a small issue), My P14s AMD works flawlessly with Linux. Every single piece of hardware works out of the box (fingerprint reader. camera, microphone, touchpad, card reader). A few years ago the simple act of connecting a 56kbps modem on linux was a complete nightmare (maybe it is why I switched to linux back in the days of Red Hat 7 2.4 kernel - Never to go back!). Linux people love to "dig" a challenge. Back then hardware was simply windows friendly and Linux had just zero support from manufactures. It could work.... or... we had to put to work. 

These days we depend a lot on mobile devices and really it is not fun to have a laptop that eats battery time and cycles.. like donuts. Eventually thanks to Mark this will be soon solved... At least I hope so. :)

 

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