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389 Posts

03-06-2021

Germany

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Re:T14 AMD battery drain in standby (Linux)

2021-07-02, 12:26 PM

@ theowatt wrote:

@ ikovnatsky wrote:

@osnix i briefly tried your test scenario and can confirm similar results, i' not an expert or anything, but your judgement on the BROKEN PSU firmware management looks the most viable root cause here.

 

As an aside... @osnix have Lenovo asked you about bringing some help or feedback? I mean, it' obvious there are people here that could give valuable insights to the FW team and it looks like they prefer to solve this with one hand tied to the back.

 

Unfortunately not. I would seriously even sign some NDA's, if that helps to solve this ( and other ) issues.

 

I don't claim to be a BIOS firmware expert, but I work with and for Linux projects for about 2 decades.

 

What Lenovo needs is simple but that isn't going to happen :)

 

First, they have to support Linux ( not random distros ), and they need a community ( beta ) program,

for QA & testing purposes, because is very obvious that:

 

1) The BIOS FW team is small ( 1 or 2 folks at best for a device line)

2) The BIOS team for these machines has no Linux experience ( or very little )

3) The Linux team lead by @MarkRHPearson is way too small to cover even basic testing ( at least right now )

 

 

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50 Posts

01-21-2018

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

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Re:T14 AMD battery drain in standby (Linux)

2021-07-03, 18:46 PM

Daily bump of this thread... because Lenovo is obviously hoping we just go away and accept that we have defective laptops..

 

Mark seems to have gone quiet, I assume because he's between a rock and a hard place. A directive from Lenovo that they officially stopped caring about the issue, and a thread full of frustrated, angry consumers. 

I'm still just so surprised how little Lenovo care about the damage to the reputation of their ThinkPad range. For starters, everyone in this thread is going to go out of their way to share their negative opinion of ThinkPads with everyone they come into contact with for years to come. Surely that'll cost Lenovo more than fixing/replacing two defective model lines..

 

What has peoples experience of support been like? I've just started the process, but I don't know if I have the energy to go through the back and forth knowing the outcome is unlikely to be favourable. I had a horrendous experience with support over an IdeaPad last year (also a battery issue!). Literally months of back and forth, blatantly inaccurate information, totally ignored for weeks at a time. I would hope the ThinkPad support is better.

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49 Posts

09-04-2010

netherland

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Re:T14 AMD battery drain in standby (Linux)

2021-07-03, 19:32 PM

Lenovo does not care.  

If you open YouTube and search for 'Lenovo Thinkpad', and add a filter "upload date: this week",

see how much advertisement is shown, looks like every day at least one. 

 

I have put several comments to advice people to wait several months and then visit this forum for known issue's. 

But there are so many new posts, it is hard to keep up. That's how they do it and get away with it.

 

 

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50 Posts

01-21-2018

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

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Re:T14 AMD battery drain in standby (Linux)

2021-07-03, 21:44 PM

Definitely have to wait for reviews before ever touching a Lenovo. And then probably only after Notebookcheck have had a look at it, as they're the only ones thorough enough to spot issues like standby power drain. I did even wait this time until a review for the P14s came out (got burned by the IdeaPad, purchased before review), but it was for the Intel version. I figured, "Surely they must be almost identical". Lesson learnt. It was some time later Notebookcheck noticed the AMD version was getting almost half the battery life of the Intel version despite having a CPU with similar power consumption.

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15 Posts

06-22-2021

Germany

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Re:T14 AMD battery drain in standby (Linux)

2021-07-04, 13:28 PM

Ok, i found a way to make my T14s somewhat usable:  suspend-then-hibernate with some tweaks

The basic idea is to sleep for a while, lets say 1h, and if the laptop is not used until then go to hibernate (suspend to disk).

 

In general you have to

1) Enable hibernate (suspend to disk) for your distro/setup (create big swap, enable it in fstab, add initrd and boot options..)

2) make sure hibernate works

3) edit /etc/systemd/sleep.conf and add HibernateDelaySec=5

4) execute "sudo systemctl suspend-then-hibernate" to check if system really hibernates after 5sec of sleep

6) make suspend-then-hibernate the default suspend mode: "sudo ln -s /usr/lib/systemd/system/systemd-suspend-then-hibernate.service /etc/systemd/system/systemd-suspend.service"  (changing settings in /etc/systemd/sleep.conf to achieve the same by other means made all sleep modes unusable for me)

7) check if closing lid or whatever you do to make it sleep now also uses the suspend-then-hibernate

5) change HibernateDelaySec=xxx in  /etc/systemd/sleep.conf to the number of seconds you really want

 

Here are some tricks i found very useful

6)  execute "echo 0 > /sys/power/image_size" after every boot (in whatever startup script you use). This makes the kernel compress the RAM image as much as possible before writing it to disk - this makes saving and resuming much faster and does not destroy your SSD by writing 32GB of data each time.

7) use a plugin like "New Tab Suspender" for firefox if youre a tab junky, this prevents exessive browser memory usage and also makes the RAM image smaller

 

@MarkRHPearson maybe the lenovo bios teams can at least fix the power-off battery drain which used to work a few bios versions back ?

 

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104 Posts

02-14-2021

Ukraine

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Re:T14 AMD battery drain in standby (Linux)

2021-07-04, 13:52 PM

> maybe the lenovo bios teams can at least fix the power-off battery drain which used to work a few bios versions back ?

 

can you please tell which BIOS version worked for you, not draining the battery in power off state?

 

i noticed that on 1.30 (it was really big), but eventually i realized previous version 1.29 had it also, just much less. 

 

i could not try the versions before, somehow bios did not let me downgrade further 1.29. 

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389 Posts

03-06-2021

Germany

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Re:T14 AMD battery drain in standby (Linux)

2021-07-04, 13:56 PM

@ blaumetallic wrote:

Ok, i found a way to make my T14s somewhat usable:  suspend-then-hibernate with some tweaks

The basic idea is to sleep for a while, lets say 1h, and if the laptop is not used until then go to hibernate (suspend to disk).

 

In general you have to

1) Enable hibernate (suspend to disk) for your distro/setup (create big swap, enable it in fstab, add initrd and boot options..)

2) make sure hibernate works

3) edit /etc/systemd/sleep.conf and add HibernateDelaySec=5

4) execute "sudo systemctl suspend-then-hibernate" to check if system really hibernates after 5sec of sleep

6) make suspend-then-hibernate the default suspend mode: "sudo ln -s /usr/lib/systemd/system/systemd-suspend-then-hibernate.service /etc/systemd/system/systemd-suspend.service"  (changing settings in /etc/systemd/sleep.conf to achieve the same by other means made all sleep modes unusable for me)

7) check if closing lid or whatever you do to make it sleep now also uses the suspend-then-hibernate

5) change HibernateDelaySec=xxx in  /etc/systemd/sleep.conf to the number of seconds you really want

 

Here are some tricks i found very useful

6)  execute "echo 0 > /sys/power/image_size" after every boot (in whatever startup script you use). This makes the kernel compress the RAM image as much as possible before writing it to disk - this makes saving and resuming much faster and does not destroy your SSD by writing 32GB of data each time.

7) use a plugin like "New Tab Suspender" for firefox if youre a tab junky, this prevents exessive browser memory usage and also makes the RAM image smaller

 

@MarkRHPearson maybe the lenovo bios teams can at least fix the power-off battery drain which used to work a few bios versions back ?

 

 

Yes that always worked but that doesn't fix the cause.

 

I have other workarounds local which I cannot share right now because

it may eat your cat and such ;) after poking the EC directly.

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50 Posts

01-21-2018

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

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Re:T14 AMD battery drain in standby (Linux)

2021-07-04, 21:07 PM

I tried to avoid this issue by switching back to Windows (at least until it is possibly fixed one day), but now I'm seeing that Windows + S3 (Linux mode sleep) is totally broken too??
It reboots every time, instead of waking up. I can see others have this issue and I'm on a completely clean refresh from recovery media.

Is this a known issue? Is S3 working properly in any way on the T14s/P14s line or should I just write that feature off completely?

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389 Posts

03-06-2021

Germany

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Re:T14 AMD battery drain in standby (Linux)

2021-07-04, 21:15 PM

@ CoranH wrote:

I tried to avoid this issue by switching back to Windows (at least until it is possibly fixed one day), but now I' seeing that Windows + S3 (Linux mode sleep) is totally broken too??
It reboots every time, instead of waking up. I can see others have this issue and I' on a completely clean refresh from recovery media.

Is this a known issue? Is S3 working properly in any way on the T14s/P14s line or should I just write that feature off completely?

 

Not sure which Windoze build are you using but you need some tricks to enable S3 instead of S0ix,

however, once you have it set it is in the same way broken as in Linux, this is in fact not a Linux problem

at all. 

Also, S0ix and Windows are not much better 1.26+W/h is a bad result.

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50 Posts

01-21-2018

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

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  • Message 480 of 841

Re:T14 AMD battery drain in standby (Linux)

2021-07-04, 23:56 PM

I did some tests this evening, just to see how bad S0 is on Windows. And I'm getting 1.67wh loss. I'm using Windows battery report:

Duration: 0:39:09   

Capacity loss: 1,090 mWh

I'm on 1.32 BIOS and build 20H2 of Windows. That seems just as bad as Linux, so I don't understand the figures being quoted in this thread.

Has anyone else confirmed the 1.26wh figure for S0 Windows? Could someone please do a quick test to see if it's just me or have Lenovo tricked windows into disconnected S0 through some sort of config to get to this figure?

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