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775 Posts

07-22-2019

Canada

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  • Message 11 of 24

Re:X1 Carbon Gen 9 severe throttling

2021-09-16, 18:22 PM

I don't have an updates on the FW release, but re-reading the above I didn't also want to highlight the platform-profile support.

 

If you have a newer kernel you can check /sys/firmware/acpi/platform-profile for the current state (and use it to change mode) - changes are coming in Gnome to make it more user friendly.

 

However on any kernel

FN+L - puts the system in low power mode (better battery life and cooler)

FN+M - balanced mode. Should be the default. 

FN+H - performance mode. Useful when you want maximum power but comes with higher temperatures. Note performance mode is not available when the system is on your lap - it has some sensors that detect if it's in desk or lap mode.

 

The thermald --adaptive is (I think) switching between these modes somewhat automatically, but as mentioned above it's not something we're certifying as it's not officially supported on Linux by Intel. Given the fact that you can shut it down by over-heating isn't great...I'd have expected the fans to ramp up and power profile to drop before that happens.

 

You might get good mileage out of using FN+H when you have tasks that need more power/performance, and FN+M when you're doing less demanding tasks?

 

Mark

 

 

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3 Posts

09-16-2021

Turkey

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  • Message 12 of 24

Re:X1 Carbon Gen 9 severe throttling

2021-09-17, 3:53 AM

So I disabled thermald and set the platform profile to low-power. I've also set the Intel SpeedStep setting in the BIOS to "Balanced" for when the AC is connected as well, and switched off hyperthreading. Like the OP, I'm also using Manjaro, and having severe issues whenever I use Microsoft Teams, however, I've upgraded to the latest kernel, i.e. 5.14.2-1-MANJARO.

Even with the above changes, if the power is plugged in, the thermals are all over the place. It's only when I unplug that they seem OK.

 

When my laptop shut itself down, the only thing I was doing was a Teams call. It happened within two minutes of the call starting, and even though the laptop was off, the fans continued spinning. I'll see what it's like today when I have meetings.

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9 Posts

07-30-2021

Finland

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  • Message 13 of 24

Re:X1 Carbon Gen 9 severe throttling

2021-09-22, 13:35 PM

Hi,

 

Lenovo released a new firmware a couple of days ago with version number 1.47. In the changelog it says

 

Fixed an issue where thermal throttling may happens on Linux OS.

 

I updated the firmware & ran the same tests as before, with thermald disabled and platform profile set to "performance".

 

Throttling

 

Compared to the level of throttling with the previous firmware version, the situation seems to have been improved. With 40% CPU utilization the frequencies now drop to 2 GHz, which is much higher than the previous 400 MHz. With 100% utilization the frequencies drop to around 1.3 GHz.

 

The performance is however still much more unstable compared to the case with thermald enabled. I observed similar unstability also with the "balanced" platform profile.

 

Does Lenovo consider this problem to be fixed with this firmware release, or are there going to be further improvements to this issue on Linux?

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  • Message 14 of 24

Re:X1 Carbon Gen 9 severe throttling

2021-09-22, 16:51 PM

Hi @truhanen  

 

Thanks for the post - I meant to update here that the updated BIOS/EC with the fix was available, but having your measurements is useful and I'm glad it shows a significant improvement.

 

I can forward these details on to the FW team - but do you happen to have the same plots when you're running thermald in adaptive mode? I was doing some testing with the phoronix test suite but I don't have the nice charts like you have...got to figure out how to collect those.

 

As a note - I had a couple of reports of people using thermald with adaptive hitting shutdowns due to overheating. It's one of the downsides with that approach - as it's not supported by Intel we don't test with it (at least not officially) and do still recommend the Lenovo firmware control.

 

Mark

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9 Posts

07-30-2021

Finland

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  • Message 15 of 24

Re:X1 Carbon Gen 9 severe throttling

2021-09-22, 17:24 PM

Here you go. Otherwise the same settings as above, but with thermald enabled as "--adaptive --ignore-cpuid-check".

 

thermald

 

Interestingly, the frequencies & temperatures are higher than in my previous test with "--adaptive", as I described in an earlier post. There might have been some variable I have missed, I don't know.

 

If you want, I can provide you with the Python scripts I use for plotting the s-tui logs.

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775 Posts

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  • Message 16 of 24

Re:X1 Carbon Gen 9 severe throttling

2021-10-05, 13:57 PM

Hi @truhanen  

 

I've had some conversation with the thermal engineers. Part of the problem is we don't know exactly which bits thermald --adaptive is reacting to and supporting. It's something I really need to dig into - I followed Matthew Garetts work as he reverse engineered it but I've not dived into the nitty gritty details.

 

The thermal team believe thermald isn't using the same power limit range and temperature target in the DPTF table as it possibly should. Their guidance is the same operating characteristics are used for DPTF (Windows) and for the Linux FW implementation - at that thermald is letting you just have performance mode all the time. I've seen an issue with people using thermald --adaptive being able to get their systems so hot it just shuts down which supports the theory. Please correct me if you know otherwise :)

 

I would love to get your python scripts for generating these plots - I'd like to collect these myself on our systems and use them as part of our Linux enablement to check the thermal tuning. If you could point me at them that would be appreciated.

 

Thanks!

Mark

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9 Posts

07-30-2021

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  • Message 17 of 24

Re:X1 Carbon Gen 9 severe throttling

2021-10-09, 14:24 PM

I did some refining on my script and published it on GitHub & PyPI. Feel free to test and work on it. The script only plots s-tui logs. Running s-tui etc. must be done with other methods.

 

https://github.com/truhanen/stuiplot

 

Thanks for sharing your progress!

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775 Posts

07-22-2019

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  • Message 18 of 24

Re:X1 Carbon Gen 9 severe throttling

2021-10-12, 23:28 PM

Works great - thank you!

Mark

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3 Posts

10-14-2021

Sweden

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  • Message 19 of 24

Re:X1 Carbon Gen 9 severe throttling

2021-10-14, 14:22 PM

I'm a new X1 Carbon Gen9 user, running Fedora 34 with 5.14.11-200.fc34.x86_64.

 

Thermald situation is like below:

○ thermald.service - Thermal Daemon Service
     Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/thermald.service; enabled; vendor preset: enabled)
     Active: inactive (dead) since Thu 2021-10-14 16:06:53 CEST; 2s ago
    Process: 15157 ExecStart=/usr/sbin/thermald --systemd --dbus-enable --adaptive (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)
   Main PID: 15157 (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)
        CPU: 12ms

-------- systemd[1]: Starting Thermal Daemon Service...
-------- systemd[1]: Started Thermal Daemon Service.
-------- thermald[15157]: 27 CPUID levels; family:model:stepping 0x6:8c:1 (6:140:1)
-------- thermald[15157]: [/sys/devices/platform/thinkpad_acpi/dytc_lapmode] present: Thermald can't run on this platform
-------- thermald[15157]: Unsupported cpu model or platform
-------- systemd[1]: thermald.service: Deactivated successfully.


Added boot option i915.enable_psr=0 to grub

Running latest fw available.

Earlier i was experiencing throttling to 400Mhz way too often to the extent that even editing multiple files was not possible.
now its a lot better, even s-tui stress test does not reproduce throttling, I mean it does, but it doesn't go below 1.2 Ghz which is good.

However, while having video meetings ( zoom, google-meet, slack ) , I experience throttling to 400Mhz again, like every few minutes, which causes audio and video distortion for about 30 seconds.

I changed thermald to "thermald --systemd --dbus-enable --adaptive  --ignore-cpuid-check". The result was that throttling was not happening, but during a meeting the temperature went too high and laptop shutdown suddenly. It took a while to cool down so i could turn it on again ( around 20 minutes ).

I really wish to see a viable workaround to make this expensive piece of hardware work like a laptop!

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3 Posts

09-16-2021

Turkey

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  • Message 20 of 24

Re:X1 Carbon Gen 9 severe throttling

2021-10-14, 15:13 PM

This is the exact same thing that happened to me. I think the overheating must have fried something because a few weeks later I went to turn on my laptop and the screen would not turn on. The laptop was otherwise working, but not usable, obviously.

 

Would I be able to get a refund for this laptop? I really think I've made a wrong choice and want something else.

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