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11 Posts

07-13-2011

Bremen, Germany

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Re:[X1C6/T480s] low cTDP and trip temperature in Linux

2020-09-15, 8:50 AM

Just wanted to say thank you and good bye to everyone who has stuck around in this thread, I am utterly grateful to everyone who has contributed. Without the community support I would have been gone much earlier. I have prematurely retired my X1C6 after 2.5 years and all in all 10 years of daily use of Lenovo Notebooks of and now I have moved on to another brand. Farewell, it was great while the fun lasted.

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8 Posts

01-27-2020

France

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Re:[X1C6/T480s] low cTDP and trip temperature in Linux

2020-09-15, 9:16 AM

@ jnWibble wrote:
 

 

Is the main thread about throttling? I'm losing track. In the thread I have in mind, a Lenovo employee said Lenovo was working on the throttling. Yet, as one can see from this document, the problem persists in the X1CG6 and other models. It's been years now.

 

Finally, after giving us hope for several months, it was announced that there will never be any firmware update for 90% of the impacted laptops.

 

Well, several people say that there is no problem, and everything is now fine. Personally, I tested all the proposed workarounds, without success. I don't think I made a mistake in the operations, but it remains a possibility. Today, with thermald 2.3 activated, I have to disable secureboot (because of lockdown) and I am unable to watch a video on Firefox/Youtube for too long with my T580 because otherwise my CPU overheats (98 ° C) and Linux decides to shutdown the machine (PERFOMANCE profile in /etc/thermald/thermald-conf.xml). To be honest, I have 2 virtual machine running on this laptop too.

 

In my case, I hope for a magical improvement on each kernel and thermald update :)

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14 Posts

06-06-2018

Switzerland

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Re:[X1C6/T480s] low cTDP and trip temperature in Linux

2020-09-15, 10:35 AM

@Christophe_ : You are not the only one, who still experience an issue with Lenovo laptop, despite trying different solutions proposed on this forum. My issue is that under heavy load (all cores around ~100%, it's not a benchmark but real-life scenario: compilation of a custom yocto distribution), CPU on T480 slows down to 200 MHz. A restart of different services doesn't help. The only solution is a reboot of the laptop.

 

@NariOX : you seem to be extremely confident the problem has been solved and although people report an opposite you redirect them to the previous replies with thermald. Have you tested it on the wide range of the affected Lenovo's laptops and range of Linux distributions officially supported by Lenovo? If so, could you please point to a post, where on a fresh OS installation (preferably Ubuntu 18.04 LTS) you would present steps (which don't trade off system security, e.g. disabling secure boot) to fix the throttling problem? For my understanding: are you somehow associated with Lenovo or you are a private user of Lenovo's device?

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41 Posts

01-14-2017

United States of America

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Re:[X1C6/T480s] low cTDP and trip temperature in Linux

2020-09-15, 11:32 AM

@adrianf0 Secure boot and kernel lockdown are separate features (cf. https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/4/3/758). A couple of distributions decided - for some reasons - to combine them, but this is not inherent. You can have secure boot without kernel lockdown. However, you can - TTBOMK - not have DPTF working with a locked down kernel.

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49 Posts

11-02-2012

United States of America

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Re:[X1C6/T480s] low cTDP and trip temperature in Linux

2020-09-15, 15:25 PM

@Christophe_ and @adrianf0: I am not related to Lenovo in any way. I am just a user, like both of you.

 

If your laptop is heating up to 98C, then no firmware update can help you. As per the title of the thread. The complaint is low cTDP (which is 44W on Windows), but _was_ 15W (IIRC) on Linux. The trip temperature was set to 80C, whereas on Windows it was 97C. These two factors combined limited the usability on Linux. Because (in comparison to Windows), the performance was much lower.

 

The problem seemed to stem from two factors. First, Thinkpads are UL certified, which means the bottom of the laptop cannot go over 70C when over your lap (to prevent burns). Lenovo implemented a solution that detects whether the laptop is on your lap and sets the trip temperature to 80C. If the laptop thinks it is on a desk, the trip temperature goes to 97C. The problem is that the solution used DPTF, which is proprietary and Lenovo, under NDA, cannot release. Thus, it is not implemented on Linux. MJG59 has started some work reverse engineering DPTF and thermald to overcome this. It sucks that it has to be reverse engineered, but I would attribute the fault to Intel, not Lenovo for DPTF not being implemented on Linux.

 

If your laptop throttles at 97C, (as much as I hate the sentence) that's not a bug, that's a feature. You don't want your laptop burning your CPU, right? Intel specifies a maximum junction temperature of 100C, but often there is a bit of overshoot when the temperature rises before the laptop can throttle back, so 97C is a perfectly sane limit. (Now, one could argue that the thermal design is lacking, but that's not exclusive to Linux).

 

Now, if you are stuck with the 80C/15W limit, you can try a few approaches:

- You can try building mjg59's kernel and thermald. If you want to use it with secure boot, you can sign your kernel and add the keys to your BIOS. (https://github.com/mjg59/thermal_daemon)

- You can try to use the set-power-uuid.sh script (I think it works with secure boot) (https://pastebin.com/6yNEKCNY)

- You can try a recent kernel and thermald. You might need to use "--workaround-enabled".

 

If none of these work, I think it is perfectly okay to keep stating that the problem is not fixed. My post was more a way of keeping the discussion on point. A post stating "I have tried _everything_ and nothing worked" is much less helpful than "I have tried approach A, how can I tell if it is working?" or "I have tried approach B and C, but the trip temperature is still X".

 

As a last resort. But I see how someone would not want this:

- You can disable Secure Boot and use throttled and use other security mitigation measures (detached bootloader and header with LUKS, for example).

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49 Posts

11-02-2012

United States of America

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Re:[X1C6/T480s] low cTDP and trip temperature in Linux

2020-09-16, 13:43 PM
Actually, I need to correct something. You can still use throttled with Secure Boot, but you need to disable Kernel lockdown. Check https://github.com/erpalma/throttled/issues/201 for more info.
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14 Posts

06-06-2018

Switzerland

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Re:[X1C6/T480s] low cTDP and trip temperature in Linux

2020-09-17, 10:00 AM

@NariOX Thank you very much for summarizing the issue is presenting the possible solutions. I appreciate your involvement in the community.

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49 Posts

11-02-2012

United States of America

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Re:[X1C6/T480s] low cTDP and trip temperature in Linux

2020-09-19, 2:44 AM

Thank you @adrianf0. The throttling situation is quite frustrating for me, I hope it didn't come across as rude. I want this situation to be solved as much as everyone. I just wanted to make sure the discussion did not get mixed with other issues (like thermal design, which is another thing I just wish was a bit better). My main gripe currently is GPU throttling, which as far as I know, has no workaround or fix. The only thing that is left for me is to set my trip temperature to 75C (not ideal).

 

I think it might be good to get all of these solutions compiled in the Google doc file, but it would be helpful if more people tested out the solutions. Right now I am just using throttled, simply because it is convenient to set the trip temps, PLs and undervolt with the same program, but I know this is far from ideal for most. I am writing my dissertation right now, so I can't spare as much time testing out everything (different configurations, with and without secure boot, etc).

 

Anyone in this thread volunteers to test the solutions?

 

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8 Posts

01-07-2020

France

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Re:[X1C6/T480s] low cTDP and trip temperature in Linux

2020-10-12, 20:19 PM

Today 5.8 kernel is available in Ubuntu 20.04 (hwe edge, in proposed at the moment).

You can install thermald from 20.10 here:

https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thermald/2.3-4/+build/20095381/+files/thermald_2.3-4_amd64.deb

 

I confirm that there's no need here to hack anything else to get a very good power usage / cpu freq, as I mentioned earlier in this thread. Issue completely solved for me (I don't own a Nvidia-gpu model).

 

After 1 min s-tui stress 8 threads AC plugged i7 8550u:

 

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1 Posts

11-02-2020

Mexico

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  • Message 450 of 484

Ryzen 7 3700U

2020-11-02, 19:01 PM

Que tal sale el procesador Ryzen 7 3700U, se calienta? 

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