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58 Posts

06-30-2012

United States of America

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Re: Yoga 900-13ISK2 - BIOS update for setting RAID mode for missing hard drive on linux install

2016-09-21, 20:53 PM

Okay, given what I now know to be the case about power management benefits, then Lenovo should have made the default setting RAID in the BIOS, don't proactively prevent (or should I say, restrict) that setting from being changed at all. (okay, what they SHOULD have done was made a driver-level tweak in software within the actual OS, not messed with the BIOS at all -- completely unnecessary in this scenario, but I'll be generous and let that offense slide...)

Lenovo is claiming that the problem is Linux's fault because Linux isn't "forward compatible" with the Crazy New Super Advanced Hardware (CNSAH) -- however, the CNSAH is actually backwards compatible with Linux, except Intel's usually enabled/unrestricted backwards compatible functionality is intentionally blocked by Lenovo by two lines of code in their BIOS.


The fact that Intel's hardware is "CNSAH" (or even black box/proprietary/etc) is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand.


I'm not saying that it is Lenovo's onus to ensure that Linux is forward compatible with CNSAH at all -- it's actually their responsibility to make sure they don't break existing backwards compatible functionality; you're misrepresenting my actual argument.

I'm also _liberally_ and very generously using the phrase "backwards compatible" to describe supporting an unrestricted AHCI mode, when I should be calling it "modus operandi."

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1 Posts

09-21-2016

United States of America

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Re: Yoga 900-13ISK2 - BIOS update for setting RAID mode for missing hard drive on linux install

2016-09-21, 22:36 PM

I really wish I stumbled upon this thread before I bought my Yoga 900 that was mainly intended for coding on Ubuntu. Really unhappy with Lenovo's responses. Until this is fixed, I will never buy or recommend Lenovo products.

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9 Posts

07-07-2016

United States of America

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Re: Yoga 900-13ISK2 - BIOS update for setting RAID mode for missing hard drive on linux install

2016-09-22, 0:42 AM

In all the discussions, particularly on the Linux boards after today's press stories, one point is being lost--Lenovo made a change between the ISK and ISK2 models that completely changed the behavior of the machine relative to its BIOS. It appears that the hardware does not have a limitation because Dell changed the BIOS settings when there was a similar outcry, and no one using a Dell XPS13 is complaining about power management issues, or other performance issues.

 

This undocumented change caused a fundamental change in the usability of the system that was neither advertised by Lenovo, or well documented. 

 

I too bought the system after reading on the web that the ISK version's linux issues were solved or very nearly solved. I am also stuck with a system I can no longer return. It is irrelevant whether this was due to a MSFT compulsion. What matters is that Lenovo made a silent, undocumented change in the behavior of a machine they continued to ship as a Yoga 900, and refuse to allow returns claiming that there is no "defect" in the machine. 

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9 Posts

06-06-2016

Argentina

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Re: Yoga 900-13ISK2 - BIOS update for setting RAID mode for missing hard drive on linux install

2016-09-22, 2:40 AM

Hi "Andy_Lenovo",

You're right on the forum rules. Anyway, a few comments on your post:

- In any functional company, an estimation of "several weeks to several months", is just unacceptable. And, if a few months later there's still no answer, the least we expect is a more accurate estimation now.

- The logic "the owner don't want problems in his store" is really great for the previous century. Nowadays, that's the best problem you can have. That way, you can easily answer and quiet your customers. Asking them to go out - now that Internet was created - is just insane. You had only one link to claims outside before your post, and more than 10 after that. Lenovo should probably consider to get a new "community manager", "customer satisfaction team", and several other guys.

 

Lastly, there's a very specific comment saying that the firmware has 2 lines creating all the burden. Can you please asnwer that? And, ideally, remove it for the next version, to be released sometime this week?

 

Regards,

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86 Posts

09-08-2016

United States of America

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Re: Yoga 900-13ISK2 - BIOS update for setting RAID mode for missing hard drive on linux install

2016-09-22, 2:46 AM

Lenovo just issued a press release praising Windows 10. Windows 10 is so unstable on the Yoga 900 that updates freeze (I had to get the offline update package for the last cumulative update because it kept stalling out at 45%), the Bluetooth glitches all the time and says to restart the computer because you paired your headphones, and I've had lots of other weird problems with Windows 10. I doubt any OS could be more annoying. Microsoft Edge playing Spotify bloats the tab up to 2,200 MB of RAM...

 

The funniest part was they said that flipping it into tablet mode might not work right in Linux. Tablet mode is a gimmick because these things are just too heavy to use in that mode. They're easily three times heavier than an Android tablet and so that mode isn't incredibly useful. I wouldn't care if it didn't work because I never use that mode anyway.

 

And multi-touch support in Ubuntu is pretty good, so I think Lenovo is just making things up at this point.

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86 Posts

09-08-2016

United States of America

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Re: Yoga 900-13ISK2 - BIOS update for setting RAID mode for missing hard drive on linux install

2016-09-22, 3:34 AM

Well, the thing is, that in Andy_Lenovo's comment about not wanting customers to complain in the store, which is outdated, he forgot another thing that used to be true.

 

The customer is _always_ right. If your customer wants to run Linux on their computer, then there shouldn't be artificial barriers constructed and excuses made. It should be able to go into a mode where Linux works.

 

Other Ultrabook makers had the forced RAID mode that stopped Linux installs, and Dell, for example, removed it when people screamed about it. 

 

Look, Lenovo, I would have loved to give this thing a better review. The hardware is nice. Looking at a HiDPI display makes you never want to go back to anything less. I like the computer. I don't particularly like Windows 10.

 

I've been using PCs since the 1980s. I got my first one when I was five, and Windows 10 is one of my least favorite operating systems ever. When Windows Vista came along and it ran poorly on my laptop, I didn't have to return the laptop to the store because I installed Linux and I used Linux for close to a decade. Not a single Windows machine in the house. I'm just wondering why I can't do the same thing here. If other people think Windows 10 is good, then they have every right to keep using it. It should be a choice.

 

Freedom doesn't flow from the barrel of a gun, and what you're doing right now is quietly breaking Linux and slipping it in as an upgrade to a computer (Yoga 900) whose original model made it sound like a fantastic Linux machine, then playing gotcha games with users who are stuck on Windows 10. An operating system that still doesn't work right, coming with components (like Microsoft Edge) that still feel like beta quality software three major releases later.

 

So maybe instead of saying your customers should just shut up, you should learn to better serve your customers.

 

It would be so easy that you could have done it effortlessly, just by not removing a storage mode that the code of your BIOS supported. It's easier to do the right thing than to perpetually make empty excuses. I hope you come to agree.

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86 Posts

09-08-2016

United States of America

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Re: Yoga 900-13ISK2 - BIOS update for setting RAID mode for missing hard drive on linux install

2016-09-22, 4:08 AM

If anyone has a Lenovo Yoga and would like to run Linux in a Virtual Machine, you probably want to go into the BIOS and turn on Intel VT-x support. Lenovo disabled it, but the settings are still there to toggle it back on. Your Guest OS will perform better with this on.

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11807 Posts

09-04-2014

Slovakia

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Re: Yoga 900-13ISK2 - BIOS update for setting RAID mode for missing hard drive on linux install

2016-09-22, 4:21 AM

For those who may not have seen it yet a statement has been released by the company;

Lenovo Statement on Linux Support for Yoga

 

Lenovo, as always, is focused on bringing value to the PC user, and creating unique and innovative form factors such as Yoga. Our consumer Windows PCs are specifically designed for and extensively tested on Windows 10. Yoga 900 / 900S with their 360 degree hinges are specifically designed to maximise the touch functionality of Windows 10. Our Yoga design requires very specific, complex and unique drivers that require even greater amounts of testing, to ensure class-leading performance with Windows 10. To support our Yoga products and our industry-leading 360-hinge design in the best way possible we have used a storage controller mode that is unfortunately not supported by Linux and as a result, does not allow Linux to be installed. Beyond the controller setup limitation, other advanced capabilities of the Yoga design would likely not work with current Linux offerings.

Lenovo does not intentionally block customers using other operating systems such as Linux on Yoga or any of its devices and is fully committed to providing Linux certifications and installation guidance on a wide range of suitable products. These products are listed on our support page: 
 
https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd031426

 

 

In order that others are able to find this statement easier, when searching, I am marking this post as the solution

 

Andy

 

Community Administrator
Lenovo eServices

Please remember to come back and mark the post that you feel solved your question as the solution, it earns the member + points 
Did you find a post helpfull? You can thank the member by awarding them a Thumbs Up
 

Please don't ask me questions by Personal Message; questions belong in the forums.


Using Browser Search to find your answers in Lenovo and Moto Community
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15 Posts

07-11-2016

United States of America

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Re: Yoga 900-13ISK2 - BIOS update for setting RAID mode for missing hard drive on linux install

2016-09-22, 4:33 AM

If this is the solution, I'm going to destroy my $1400 Lenovo laptop with a hammer and then post the video on youtube.

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86 Posts

09-08-2016

United States of America

52 Signins

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  • Message 230 of 394

Re: Yoga 900-13ISK2 - BIOS update for setting RAID mode for missing hard drive on linux install

2016-09-22, 5:04 AM

I don't suppose the irony that Lenovo has made it easier to run Linux on a Mac than a Lenovo PC has been lost on you?

 

Also, why not wait until the problem is actually solved by someone before marking it solved?

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