Welcome to our peer-to-peer forums, where owners help owners. Need help now? Visit eSupport here.

English Community

ThinkPad NotebooksThinkPad; T61 and prior T series plus Other Legacy ThinkPads
All Forum Topics
Options

2029 Posts

12-02-2007

Australia

9435 Signins

247288 Page Views

  • Posts: 2029
  • Registered: ‎12-02-2007
  • Location: Australia
  • Views: 247288
  • Message 71 of 254

Re: t61 does not operate at SATA-II speeds?!

2009-02-20, 9:52 AM
------------------------------
I don't work for Lenovo
Reply
Options

58 Posts

05-31-2008

San Francisco

144 Signins

1060 Page Views

  • Posts: 58
  • Registered: ‎05-31-2008
  • Location: San Francisco
  • Views: 1060
  • Message 72 of 254

Re: T61 Support SATA II ?

2009-02-22, 21:53 PM

If Lenovo engineers can not revise the mobo back to SATA3.0G, then WHY the ads marked that T61/X61 support SATAII? and from TABOOK, it clearly states that T61/X61 has SATA3.0Gbs.  It mislead customers who thought they cound upgarde SSD on their T61 and X61 to gain full SATAII speed.

Wish there will be a fix soon.  

 

Reply
Options

29 Posts

08-29-2008

Australia

48 Signins

303 Page Views

  • Posts: 29
  • Registered: ‎08-29-2008
  • Location: Australia
  • Views: 303
  • Message 73 of 254

Re: t61 does not operate at SATA-II speeds?!

2009-02-23, 0:40 AM

Mark,

 

Can you offer some additional remarks on this subject, given the questions that your quote raised?

Reply
Options

58 Posts

05-31-2008

San Francisco

144 Signins

1060 Page Views

  • Posts: 58
  • Registered: ‎05-31-2008
  • Location: San Francisco
  • Views: 1060
  • Message 74 of 254

Re: T61 Support SATA II ?

2009-02-23, 8:10 AM

we, X61/t T61 users, paid full price on the machine, but we didnt get what we paid for. Why should I pay $2000 on a machine does not support SATAII transfer rate, but from Lenovo TABOOK Jan 2009, it clearly states that T61 and X61/t chipset has SATA3.0Gb/s transfer rate.

So i am wondering if Lenovo engineer revise the hardware or just the software to cap the SATAII. I wish Update BIOS can solve the issue. Otherwise, Lenovo may lose the reputation from its  users. I personally own 3 thinkpads, T42, T60, and X61t. also all my friends are also using thinkpad. 

Reply
Options

1 Posts

06-15-2008

Germany

5 Signins

58 Page Views

  • Posts: 1
  • Registered: ‎06-15-2008
  • Location: Germany
  • Views: 58
  • Message 75 of 254

Re: T61 Support SATA II ?

2009-02-23, 13:24 PM

hey ...

i use thinkpads for years too ...

at the moment i use one T61p and one X61s.

i am really unhappy about the problme..

at the moment i think they were my last lenovo thinkpads.

 

the specs of the notebook is says clear it supports SATA3.0Gb/s transfer rate.

 

now we see it is a clearly false statement.

in this case lenovo mess around their customers.

Message Edited by woodgee on 02-23-2009 05:26 AM
Reply
Options

14 Posts

02-23-2009

Germany

13 Signins

135 Page Views

  • Posts: 14
  • Registered: ‎02-23-2009
  • Location: Germany
  • Views: 135
  • Message 76 of 254

Re: t61 does not operate at SATA-II speeds?!

2009-02-23, 13:46 PM
Hello Mark,

last week I received my new T61p (8889-ALG). For performance reason (need it for business Adope CS, SolidWorks etc.)
i decided to invest the money to by an fast SSD drive from Intel (X25-E SATA II) which is capable to reach read/write
rates up to 200MBytes. I spend almost the complete week to figure out why I only got read/write
rates up to 100MBytes which is almost the half. In this thread i read that this is limited by the lenovo bios.
This I can't accept! I spend nearly 3000,- Euro to got a system with a brake inside. So, please, please Mark discuss
this with your responsible people and initiate an BIOS update for this very important issue. I bought a Lenovo system
because of the good support, so please don't disappoint me.
Reply
Options

38 Posts

01-05-2009

USA

68 Signins

2058 Page Views

  • Posts: 38
  • Registered: ‎01-05-2009
  • Location: USA
  • Views: 2058
  • Message 77 of 254

Re: t61 does not operate at SATA-II speeds?!

2009-02-23, 16:46 PM

Let me summirize what's been happening with this issue so far (correct me if I am wrong, please):

 

1. Mark_Lenovo gave an official statement that due to the "ATA-to-PATA conversion chip" which can't handle 3.0Gb/s speed reliably, Ultrabay will operate at ATA/133, main drive - 1.5 Gb/s SATA-I . This issue cannot be fixed via bios update.

   ( should be noted, that inspite of the official statement, most likely reason for lowering the speed was unreliable work of the Intel ICH8 component  on the 965GM-chipset based motherboards).

 

2. At this point fixing this issue would require recalling all T/R/X 6xx series, equipped with PATA/SATA converion chip in Ultrabay,   removing it and also instaling bios update. The costs of such recall, along with really bad PR are really hard to calculate (of course, that would be money, overpaid by customers for bad design decisions by Lenovo's engineers).

 

3.  Because of the described above, the only way to make Lenovo to fix the product, would be through court, since official position is "system functions as designed". With the unlikely bet that it will not have to face the court and orginize recall , "official" strategy of Lenovo will be "containing" the issue. This includes no more comments will be given on the topic.

 

4.  Lenovo knew about the problem the moment it was decided to put legacy ATA cdroms in Ultrabay, therefore, making all devices in ultrbay to be connected at ATA-133 speed. None of the customers who bought laptops never saw ATA-133 mentioned in the specs of the devices - furthermore, the specs included  SATA-II compliance for the main system/ultrabay.

 

5. Once critical threashold  of the complaining customers has been reached in January, Mark_Lenovo gave an official statement that "Lenovo is looking into the problem". However, a month later, it took me mentioning the story in "Wired" to actually get any kind of statement from the company.

 

6. Because of the descibed above - there is no point to complain about the issue anymore on this forum. Nor Mark nor other moderators will be giving any comments, or statements - they will be only erasing "negative" feedback that we continue seeing in this thread.

 

Cheers.

Reply
Options

8095 Posts

11-19-2007

United States of America

10101 Signins

400183 Page Views

  • Posts: 8095
  • Registered: ‎11-19-2007
  • Location: United States of America
  • Views: 400183
  • Message 78 of 254

Re: t61 does not operate at SATA-II speeds?!

2009-02-23, 16:59 PM

All,

 

I've shared the official response I received from engineering, and can ask for some clarifications as you wish, but what has been impressed upon me in all of the internal discussions I've had thus far is that it's more than just a bios setting change to allow 3Gb/s data transfer rates on the Lenovo Santa Rosa based systems.

 

With regard to what was written in the tabook, I think we have to read the entire document.  I've seen the passage which refers to the ICH8 chip and 3Gb/s specs, and there is also a passage further down in the storage section of the same document that notes 1.5Gb/s with the drives listed with the system.

 

With regard to SATA II - I believe the term refers to the overall spec, and not just the sub element - the ability to transfer at 3Gb/s.  SATA II is not necessarily synonymous automatically with 3Gb/s transfer rates, although people do tend to treat it that way conversationally.  As such a system could support some of the other elements of SATA II even through the 3Gb/s data rate is not available.

 

JKetzetera,

 

Well reasoned questions - I asked that myself as well - why can't one channel run at 3 Gb/sec and the other channel for the ultrabay remain at 1.5 Gb/s? The answers provided to this point were included in my original response. I can ask for more details and see what can be released here.

 

RyanClark,

 

With regard to your post that simply links to the home pages of competitors coupled with the assertion that examples exist from those manufacturers which have internal, removable bay storage devices, are Santa Rosa based, were released at the same time as the Lenovo products and fully support 3Gb/s data rates.... Could you please provide some specific model examples?  

 

I ask this not as a confrontational challenge, but to help understand whether or not Lenovo is delivering technology on a competitive timetable.

 

Thanks,

 

Mark

 

 

Reply
Options

8095 Posts

11-19-2007

United States of America

10101 Signins

400183 Page Views

  • Posts: 8095
  • Registered: ‎11-19-2007
  • Location: United States of America
  • Views: 400183
  • Message 79 of 254

Re: t61 does not operate at SATA-II speeds?!

2009-02-23, 17:13 PM

Kotovsky7,

 

I was drafting my response while you were writing your last... :smileyhappy:

 

Your activities on wired (which I heard were coming, but have not personally read) were not a factor in the timing of my prior response.   In fact, it took some time to research the situation and develop an official statement.

 

Sometimes it takes a while to ensure that one has the most complete answer that can be provided, and no matter how well thought out, there will seemingly always be additional challenges to it.  I find this most often the case when delivering an answer that is not what is desired. 

 

Had the answer been an affirmative, and remedied with a simple software download, I'm sure the conversation would have proceeding in a different way.

 

I can't completely agree with all your assertions in your last response, but I do respect your general direction and matter of fact approach.

 

I will also caution all members that as this discussion continues, that discussion of litigation is against the rules and subject to moderation.

 

I appreciate everyone's observance of the rules, and the spirit of why this forum exists.

 

Best regards,

 

Mark

 

 

Reply
Options

21 Posts

02-23-2009

California

67 Signins

352 Page Views

  • Posts: 21
  • Registered: ‎02-23-2009
  • Location: California
  • Views: 352
  • Message 80 of 254

Re: T61 Support SATA II ?

2009-02-23, 17:43 PM

Mark,

  Thanks for your response.  Are there even partial solutions?  It would be interesting to see if the current response is based on what was done in the past or them actually trying to solve the problems again now.  I'm sure by now the Lenovo and Intel engineers may have more experience with the chipset so may be able to look at the problem and provide new solutions.  Anyways, any improvement would be welcome versus none at all.  

 

George

 

Reply
Forum Home

Community Guidelines

Please review our Guidelines before posting.

Learn More

Check out current deals!

Go Shop
X

Save

X

Delete

X

No, I don’t want to share ideas Yes, I agree to these terms