02-25-2019 02:16 PM
A big Kudo and a warmful thank you to DSperber for the very detailed explanations and useful indications about the technical aspects related to how to add a secondary 2.5" 1TB SSD drive to the existing 1TB HDD main drive into the Lenovo Thinkcenter M910T, and also on how to clone Windows 10 Pro and other applications over from the Lenovo-provided 3.5" HDD onto my new 2.5" SATA 3 SSD, then "re-purpose" the original Lenovo-provided 3.5" HDD for "data" partitions and use it as a secondary hard drive.
With so many step by step detailed descriptions and advices, I really feel empowered and able to do what is needed.
Never have I seen such a quick response and reactivity to my request for help, with such clear and easy-to-understand explanations.
Thank you again DSperber.
03-01-2019 08:37 AM
I followed your recommendations and advices as per your last long message regarding the adding of a 2.5" 1TB SSD to my new M910T ThinkCenter tower (that already came with a 1TB HDD and a slim optical drive). As you rightly guessed, it actually came with the required empty 2.5" mouting bracket already pre-installed inside of the secondary 2.5" bay, so I will not have to buy a storage kit for it.
You also mentioned that if the HDD and the ODD came together pre-installed, they would occupy the two available 4-pin power sockets on the motherboard. So my problem is obviously that I cannot connect the additional 2.5” SSD onto the power sockets (none left), and that I would have to purchase a Y-Split power cable to power my new 2.5" SSD that I am adding into the secondary 2.5" bay.
However, the one that you suggested earlier is a 15-spin cable like this y-splitter SATA power cable, "which would give two 15-pin SATA power connectors from the single 15-pin end of the current 4-pin to 15-pin power cable going from the motherboard to the current 3.5" 1TB drive". This is where I am a bit lost.
The slim ODD power cable (that could be used/shared for the new 2.5" SDD) has one end going into the 4-pin power socket and the other end into the ODD, but this is a small socket, not a 15-spin one. However, that cable does offer a 15-spin extension (or so it seems) in the middle where I may be able to connect a separate 15-spin extension male to female power cable to (like this one that I saw on Amazon: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07C71J8LL/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3CIRZRRC63UIE&psc=1), with the other 15-spin end going into the 2.5" SSD drive. See the photo attached of the power cable inside my Lenovo M910T (if you can see the photo).
Do you think I can use that 15-spin extension on the ODD Sata power cable to "Y-split" with the new 2.5" SDD ?
Thanks for your advice
03-01-2019 10:00 AM - edited 03-01-2019 10:39 AM
To be honest, I didn't actually explore the SATA power cable on my own M910t which went from one 4-pin power socket on the motherboard to the slim ODD (the other 4-pin socket had its own SATA power cable going to the 3.5" primary HDD spinner). So I didn't know that Lenovo still "folded up" one of the power supply cables and provided a second available factory-unused 15-pin female SATA power socket for you to use, if you would just pull out and unfold that longer cable to power a third SATA device.
If that extra female SATA power connector can reach the 2.5" drive then fine. Surely you can just use it, if it reaches. Or maybe if it doesn't quite reach perhaps if you were able to physically use the total of three connectors on two cables you already have to reach the three SATA devices you want to have installed, that would work as well.
But if you just can't physically make use of all three connectors coming out of the two 4-pin motherboard sockets because of a length problem then you can absolutely make use of that 10" male-to-female "SATA power extension cord" you pointed to. That will absolutely now allow you to provide power to a third SATA device by connecting to whichever of the three connectors you do have right now is most convenient... perhaps just go with that middle female connector you discovered that is already free. You plug the male end of the extension cord into the free middle female socket on that unfolded cable, and you plug the female end of the extension cord into the SATA power connector on your new 2.5" SSD. Done.
I had thought you'd need to pull out (from either your ODD or HDD) the 15-pin female connector at one end of one of the two power cables currently going to the two 4-pin power sockets on the motherboard, and attach my Y-spliiter cable to that now freed 15-pin female connector (using the 15-pin male connector at one end of the Y-splitter cable). Then you would plug one female end of the Y-spliiter back into whichever SATA device you'd pulled the original cable out of. And you would plug the other female end into the 2.5" SSD. If there was some distance issue you'd probably use the Y-splitter for both the 3.5" and 2.5" drives since they're closer to each other than trying to use the ODD which is far away. But you understand what I'm trying to do here, and that is connect three female power connectors to three SATA devices using only two 4-pin sockets on the motherboard and whatever combination of cables and/or splitters and/or extension cords are required.
My suggestion of a "Y-splitter" is exactly the same as your "extension cord", except that it has TWO female SATA power connectors at one end instead of just the one that your simply "extension cord" does. So this would give you the opportunity to connect TWO new SATA devices (if you needed to), not just one. There's still a male connector at the other end which would plug into that one available middle female connector you have on the unfolded cable.
Again, I didn't know the M910t came with one folded-up power cable that had a free female power socket halfway up. So I thought you'd have to have a power solution which could feed both one of your two current SATA devices as well as the new 2.5" SSD (for a total of three, from the two 4-pin sockets on the motherboard). One way or another, you need three 15-pin female SATA power connectors from two 4-pin motherboard sockets, on cables (including possible use of an "extension cord" or a "Y-splitter") that are physically long enough to allow the 15-pin female SATA power connectors to reach the three target devices.
Conceptually, other than a difference in the net length of the cables, my 2-female Y-splitter is identical in purspose and function and use with your 1-female extension cord. The only difference is that the Y-splitter yields two 15-pin female connectors you can make use of (from one 15-pin male connector, whatever 15-pin female it connects to) rather than just one 15-pin female connector.
So you can use either cable to solve your problem, since you only have one new SATA device to get power to. Whichever cable solution you prefer is fine, as long as at least one new 15-pin female is at the end of some length of cable and can reach the new 2.5" SSD. That's what we're shooting for.
03-09-2019 08:52 AM
I have been busy installing the new additional 2.5" 1TB SSD drive into my Lenovo M910T (2.5" secondary bay), and everything has been OK so far... (connecting the SSD power cable to the additonal 15-spin female socket cable from the ODD, connecting the SSD to the mother board (with a new SATA 3 data cable). I followed your recommendations using Macrium Reflect to clone the pre-installed HDD partitions and data (OS system) over to the new SSD drive. It also worked. I can see the same folders and files on both drives when opening "This PC".
However, when I started the process of changing/reconfiguring the Windows "booting sequence" from the HDD to the new SSD, it just doesn't work (I went into the BIOS, then Start Up, then Primary Boot device, and excluded the HDD drive from the booting process...). After having saved the changes (F10) and restart the PC to see if it would reboot from the SSD, I only got this message on a black screen: "Error 1962. No Operating System Found. Boot sequence will automatically repeat."
This message came up when I first did the reboot after connecting the SSD to the motherboard using a SATA 2 data cable. I changed that cable with a brand new SATA 3 data 6Gb/s cable, but it still doesn't work. Just the same Error 1962 message. I also switched the new SSD SATA 3 connector with the ODD/DVD connector on the motherboard, to no avail. Meantime, I checked the ODD drive in its new Sata 3 connector (inserting and reading discs inside) to see if it was functioning well, and it does work. And so does the new SSD drive.
So I am stuck here, as I haven't been able to find an answer to that problem of the computer NOT recognizing the existence of the new OS system in the newly added SSD drive.
I am therefore temporarily re-using the HDD as the primary boot drive (re-including it into the primary booting process) and I am going to reformat the new SSD drive and try to clone again the HDD over to it, to see if that would change anything. If it doesn't, then I might just have to use the HDD as the booting device from now on, I guess.
Any idea or suggestion that you may have regarding this topic ?
03-09-2019 12:43 PM - edited 03-09-2019 12:48 PM
I can't really say precisely what might be going on, because you didn't provide screenshots to show exactly what you did.
But for sure, when you "clone" using Macrium Reflect from the current bootable HDD spinner over to the newly installed SSD, you needed to "check" all of the partitions you want transferred from the old drive to the new drive. If your plan is to completely replace the HDD spinner with the SSD and you will then "re-purpose" the HDD spinner entirely for "data" (i.e. (a) deleting all of its current partitions so that the entire capacity of the drive is now "free unallocated" space, and then (b) creating one (or more) new initially empty NTFS partitions which will be used for "data") then you need to check ALL of the partitions of the HDD spinner in the "source" specification. Depending on the capacity of both the "source" HDD spinner and "destination" SSD you may or may not want to or have to re-size the target partitions in order to fit everything from the old drive onto the new drive.
Even if you plan to "leave behind" one or more non-boot-related partitions on the HDD spinner and only clone the "boot-related" partitions, that should certainly include (a) "system reserved" which is where Boot Manager lives, (b) optionally the 128MB "placeholder" partition for GPT partitioning, if your source HDD spinner drive is partitioned using GPT, and (c) the Windows C-partition. These are the partitions required for booting from on the drive you will then specify in the BIOS to boot from.
Actually it is the "system reserved" partition which is what the BIOS is looking for to boot from, because it is marked as "active" (when you use MBR partitioning) or "active + system" (when you use GPT partitioning). The BIOS then finds Boot Manager inside there and launches it, which in turns looks at the "boot menu" to see if there are two or more choices of bootable OS's to present to you for selection, or simply if there is only one choice to just go right there by default to continue the boot process. The BIOS must find an "active" partition on one of the devices shown in its boot device list to avoid the 1962 error.
But if you cloned all of the required partitions from HDD spinner over to SSD, that means you should have copied that "system reserved" partition which is critical along with the Windows C-partition (which will become C again when you boot from the SSD) and optionally that GPT 128MB partition if relevant. Of course the SSD must at least now occur earlier in the boot sequence list than the HDD spinner in order for the BIOS to search for, find, and make use of the "system reserved" partition now living on the SSD and then boot to the Windows also now living on the SSD.
There's no problem temporarily booting without yet re-purposing the partitions of the HDD spinner, in order to guarantee that everything is working fine booting from the new SSD (either via F12 at boot time, or by actually changing the BIOS boot device sequence list). So temporarily you have duplicate partitions living on two physical drives, one of which (i.e. the SSD) you're booting from to guarantee that all is well before you delete anything from the HDD spinner.
The 1962 error says the BIOS couldn't find an "active" partition on any of the devices listed in the boot sequence list. If you can still boot to the old HDD spinner (i.e. if you haven't yet "re-purposed" it which would delete/create it for "data", but still have all of the original partitions still on it so that you can still boot from it as before), please install Partition Wizard Free (be sure to opt-out of the offer to install AVG anti-viruse for trial, during the installation dialog) and post a screenshot of what it shows for both the HDD spinner as well as the SSD. If your cloning was correct, the SSD should have exactly the same designations as for the HDD spinner (i.e. you should see a "system reserved" on the SSD, same as on the HDD spinner, both marked "active + system").
Also, I don't know what you did in the BIOS boot sequence, in terms of what now shows as INCLUDE and what shows as EXCLUDE. But the 1962 error says that the BIOS couldn't find an "active" partition on any of the devices INCLUDE'd for examination at boot time. Sorry I don't have a machine I can show you that is like your M910t setup, but here's what I have specified as INCLUDE and EXCLUDE for my Thinkpad P70 laptop. It has a 2.5" SATA3 Samsung 850 Pro SSD (which replaced a 2.5" SATA3 HDD spinner), as well as two NVMe M.2 drives. The "boot" drive is NVMe0, which is where the "system reserved", GPT placeholder, and Windows-C partitions live. The second M.2 NVMe1 drive is for "data" partitions, as is the Samsung SATA3 SSD for "data".
Here is what the P70 BIOS looks like:
03-10-2019 10:01 AM
1/ ERROR MESSAGE 1962: I reformatted the SSD drive and re-cloned the HDD drive over it again. Then I changed the boot process by excluding the HDD drive, leaving only the new SSD in the primary boot system. This time the error message 1962 did NOT appear again. So it looks like somehow one of the partitions (either "system reserved" or " placeholder partition" for GPT) was missing in my previous cloning attempts.
I am rebooting now from the SSD, but still leave the HDD untouched (not reformatted yet as a new blank data drive) until I can save the whole OS Windows 10 and other apps on a separate external drive for back-up. Should I use Macrium Reflect to do it ?
2/ ODD THING: when I tried to download "Malwarebytes" or another new app from Internet, the app still goes directly into the HDD (C drive, and NOT into the SSD programs. As if that original (C drive on the HDD was "designated" for all new apps downoads, no matter if the new booting process has now been set up from the new SSD drive.
3/ I will follow your advices for the back-up processes of all my documents and personal files that are important, and also for the "system image" back up once a week. Just wonder how we can "copy" (for back ups) only the selected folders/files when using Macrium Reflect or NovaBACKUP ?
03-10-2019 03:25 PM
Well, sorry to say it but you've got your BIOS boot sequence messed up. I would say that you are actually booting from your old HDD spinner, not the SSD. And that's why your downloads are going there... because the Windows partition on the HDD spinner is actually C, not the corresponding partition on the SSD (assuming you really did complete the cloning re-attempt properly this time).
You're most likely not getting the 1962 error any longer is because you're once again booting from the original configuration which is from the HDD spinner.
That BIOS INCLUDE/EXCLUDE setup is wrong. The drive you have shown as "SATA 1" (ST1000DM003) is your 1TB Seagate HDD spinner. It should not be up in the INCLUDE group, but should have been down in the EXCLUDE group. And the drive you have shown as "SATA 2" (WDC WDS100T2B0A) is your 1TB Western Digital Blue SSD. It shouldn't be down in the EXCLUDE group, but should have been up top in the INCLUDE group. Also, you should EXCLUDE Windows Boot Manager, so that only the manually assigned items you want should be up there in the INCLUDE group.
So seeing what you have I would modify the boot sequence to have your INCLUDE group as follows:
SATA 3: HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GUE0N
SATA 2: WDC WDS100T2B0A
Everything else should be EXCLUDE'd, including Windows Boot Manager.
Again, as this screenshot implies, you are actually running from the HDD spinner, which is where the Windows C partition has been assigned and where anything desktop-related or downloaded (e.g. into My Documents or Downloads, etc.) will obviously go.
So, one more time, before you do anything over again please install Partition Wizard Free as I suggested, and post a screenshot of what it shows for the contents of your two drives. You should be able to detect which one is the HDD spinner and which one is the SSD, even though they are both 1TB capacity devices. I myself always use "label" on partitions to convey the device name so that there's never any ambiguity or confusion.
And yes, as I mentioned previously I absolutely recommend using Macrium Reflect Free for regular "system image" backups to an external USB backup drive. The non-free version of the product also provides "data" backup/restore capability for folders/files but I don't care for its GUI (probably because I've been using NovaBACKUP for decades and am used to its own GUI). So if you went with the non-free Macrium Reflect you could use it for both types of backups. I just prefer NovaBACKUP for "data" folders/files backup/restore and don't mind using two different products for the two different types of backup functionality.
Note that because I use regular "system image" backups as my way of guaranteeing that I have say four prior generations of backups of a working non-infected Windows system, I "exclude" the C:\Windows folder from my NovaBACKUP job that backs up the "data" contents of C. The Windows folder is probably the largest folder on C and you will never need to make use of it in any disaster recovery. If disaster strikes Windows and you do need to restore something, it will almost certainly be the latest "system image" of the Windows boot-related partitions (i.e. system_reserved, GPT 128MB, and Windows C) from your Macrium Reflect set (which depending on how frequently you schedule these backups to automatically run might typically be somewhere between 1-day and 6-days old). In other words there's no point in backing up a 30GB C:\Windows folder with NovaBACKUP that you're never going to "restore" anything from.
Here's an example of my own ASUS home-built desktop machine as seen by Partition Wizard (sorry I don't have a BIOS boot sequence list photo to post, but it's very much like I listed above):
(a) 512GB Samsung 960 Pro NVMe M.2 SSD
(b) 1TB Samsung 850 Pro SATA3 SSD
(c) 6TB WDC Black SATA3 HDD spinner
(d) 2TB Verbatim external USB 3.0 (SATA3) drive for backups
03-11-2019 04:01 PM - edited 03-11-2019 04:08 PM
So, any progress?
I finally had an opportunity to re-boot my own M910t, which in turn allowed me to get a screenshot of my BIOS boot device sequence:
Note that there is no "Windows Boot Manager" item. Perhaps this is because my M910t is configured to run Win7, and thus the BIOS setting is "CSM -> ENABLED". It is also configured for both UEFI and Legacy, with "Legacy First" (as opposed to "UEFI Only", which I believe is also acceptable even for Win7).
I have five drives in my M910t, one being a 512GB Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe SSD which is where the system boots from. So that's where "system_reserved" (and Boot Manager) partition lives along with Windows 7 C-parttiion. I also have a 6TB internal WD Black HDD spinner installed in the primary 3.5" bay, connected to one of the motherboard SATA controller connectors. I have nothing in the secondary 2.5" drive bay.
I also have two additional 4TB WD Black HDD spinner drives installed in two external enclosures (OWC Mercury Elite Pro eSATA) connected through a 2-port eSATA adapter bracket which in turn is connected to two more motherboard SATA controller connectors. And finally I have one more 4TB WD Black HDD spinner living in one bay of another external enclosure (Yottamaster 2-bay USB3.0/SATA3) connected through a USB 3.0 cable to the M910t.
So this looks as follows for Partition Wizard:
Note that only the bootable M.2 drive is in the INCLUDE boot device list, with all the other non-bootable drives in the EXCLUDE list.
Also note that my external USB 3.0 backup drive (i.e. " Verbatim") appears in the BIOS boot list currently occupying the "USB HDD" item in the INCLUDE list. In truth the USB HDD entry is really intended for a partitioned USB flash drive (which depending on its size, formatting and partitioning may show up as USB HDD or USB FDD or USB KEY), but because the external Verbatim drive really is a "USB HDD" it shows up here. So if it it had been possible to actually boot from it (though it's not, since there is no "active" partition on it but only "data") then booting from it would have occurred. But since there's no bootable partition on it the BIOS simply examines it, finds no "active" partition, and moves on to the next entry in the INCLUDE list (i.e. my SATA optical drive) to see if booting can occur from it (only if it currently held a bootable CD/DVD disc inserted).
03-11-2019 05:57 PM
I am writing to you from another desktop that I have (a 4-year old ASUS computer).
I am in serious trouble now. The Lenovo M910T just stopped working and would not reboot whatever the configuration.
Let me explain:
- First, I went back into the BIOS/Start Up and "included" back the WESTERN DIGITAL SSD (SATA 2 WDC WDS100T2BOA) into the primary boot system together with the other drives (USB Key, USB FDD, USB HDD, SATA 3 DVDRAM GUEON) as you suggested and excluded the HDD (C drive to see if it would work this time with the SSD only (cloned from the HDD). The Error 1962 message appeared.
- So I tried to re-include the HDD (without excluding the SSD) to see if the HDD booting would supersede the SSD. Same message Error 1962 appeared.
- Then I tried to change the configuration (leaving the HDD SATA 1 as it is in the primary boot system) and exluding the SSD (SATA 2) so that only the HDD would be playing the booting role. To my surprise, the same Error 1962 message re-appered.
Now, it just appears that whatever the configuration, the system will NOT REBOOT, even when I exclude every drives except the HDD (SATA 1). It would not recognize the existence of any booting drive.
I tried many times different configurations, but the PC just doesn't respond any more to any attempt to even open on the BIOS page or START UP page, even though I have tried to get back to using the HDD OS on the (C drive as the primary boot.
At this stage, my Lenovo PC is like "dead" (it was functioning well this afternoon until I started to reconfigure it following your new advices). I don't know what to do any more, as I cannot even open now the BIOS page from the "boot interrupt" menu.
Any advice that would allow me to revive the computer ?
03-12-2019 10:59 AM
Well if you can't even get into the BIOS by pressing ENTER repeatedly (not just once, is my own experience) in order to configure things then something's very wrong. Obviously correcting this is the new #1 priority. Maybe try shutting the machine down, pull the plug out of the wall, wait 30 seconds, plug it back in, and try again.
You can try removing either the power or data cable from the SSD, leaving just the HDD spinner connected and "visible". See if you can get back to booting from that HDD as per your original setup. And of course for sure you need to be able to get into the BIOS, else it's time for you to contact Lenovo for support.
If you're on another machine, please install Macrium Reflect Free on this second machine. Then use it to create a standalone bootable USB flash drive (a small 4GB drive is more than good enough). From the Menu bar select "Other tasks" -> create rescue media. Since this is the first time you're doing this you need to select some WinPE kernel, and I'd suggest "Kernel 10" for the M910t (which is the Win10 version of WinPE). This will trigger a 900MB download from MS, but it's necessary.
You should be able to then boot to this flash drive (just to ensure that your computer works), assuming you still have those USB HDD and USB FDD and USB KEY entries in the boot sequence list... and they should be be ahead of either SSD or HDD. Remember this is a sequence list, examined in sequence order starting from the top entry and working down until a bootable device is found (or not -> 1962).