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2 Posts

07-26-2020

United States of America

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  • Message 1 of 22

Thinkpad E490 trackpoint report rate goes down.

2020-07-26, 10:45 AM

Hi Thinkpad users.

 

I'm a Thinkpad E490 owner. I found an annoying malfunction with trackpoint. It turned out that trackpoint's report rate (polling rate) deteriorates down to 25Hz after I leave trackpad without touch for 1 minute. It temporary maintain 50Hz for 1 minute after touch trackpad.

 

I confirmed this probrem regardless of Windows or Linux. So I suppose this is resulted from BIOS or firmware but I'm not sure.

I want to know whether initial defective or not.

Is there someone who has same problem? Please reply.

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6 Posts

11-25-2020

Belarus

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  • Message 2 of 22

Thinkpad E490 trackpoint report rate goes down.

2020-11-25, 22:54 PM
Hi there! I own a Thinkpad T490 and have the same issue on both Windows and Linux with the latest firmware onboard. Since I played a lot with different settings in Linux I would confirm this as a hardware issue since both input devices are sharing the same bus with limited throughput and interfere. Well, for me the main problem here is that even touching a disabled trackpad has impact on the current report rate of the trackpoint which makes it's movement more unpredictable. Hope new firmware for trackpoint or trackpad will somehow manage this.
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6 Posts

11-25-2020

Belarus

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  • Message 3 of 22

Thinkpad E490 trackpoint report rate goes down.

2021-06-30, 23:44 PM

Hey guys, I just would like to share my experience about solving the problem, in my case it was related to a stock touchpad, as I understood from digging the internet, both touchpad and trackpoint share the same PS/2 bus, and since the interface was  initially designed to handle one mouse and one keybord it is multiplexed between multiple pointing devices. PS/2 is used in laptops for implementation  simplicity and better compatibility with EFI  bios firmware. Since in case of multiplexing devices may interfere each other  I decided to try with some better touchpad model compatible with T490 and ordered from China a touchpad for thinkpad x1 extreme gen1.  After replacing the stock one I have no problems, report rate keeps high, it seems it was a completely hardware issue, both touchpad and trackpoint work flawlessly, besides that a new touchpad is made of glass and much more smooth. 

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9 Posts

08-01-2021

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

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  • Message 4 of 22

Re:Thinkpad E490 trackpoint report rate goes down.

2021-08-06, 18:20 PM

Hi guys/gals!

 

My Thinkpad P14s AMD Gen 1 has the exact same issue where the polling rate of my trackpoint goes down to 30Hz from 80Hz if I don't touch the touchpad at least once every 30 secs - 1 min. It has an ALPS trackpoint and a synaptics trackpad (part  no. 01YU300, manufacturer no. SBB0X80262). I am currently using Linux and am not sure if it happens on Windows.

 

This  is the only place I have found other people report this issue. @Helmos does ordering the lenovo no. 01LX660 (manufacturer no. 8SSM10P36009) touchpad definitely fix that ^ issue on Linux? I don't use the touchpad at all and you're the only person I have found online that says ordering this works so I want to be 100% sure. 😄 I use evhz to scientifically measure the polling rate of mice/trackpoint/trackpads. Does the same thing happen to you as in my video?

 

For now I have somewhat worked around the issue on Linux by

 

1. Disabling the trackpad in the BIOS

2. Setting the serio1 protocol to "elantech". This can either by done manually with

echo -n "elantech" | sudo tee /sys/bus/serio/devices/serio1/protocol

or with a udev rule in "/etc/udev/rules.d/10-trackpoint.rules" (create the file if it doesn't exist)

SUBSYSTEM=="serio", DEVPATH=="/devices/platform/i8042/serio1", ATTR{protocol}="elantech", ATTR{devices/rate}="10"

 

I'm not 100% sure what this does but it turns the trackpoint into the trackpad and also disables the trackpad completely in the OS (not just in the x server) if the trackpad is disabled in the BIOS. Disabling it in the BIOS and not doing this workaround doesn't disable it in Linux. If I enable the trackpad in the BIOS and change the serio1 protocol, both the trackpoint and trackpad are the same device from Linux's point of view. I.e touching both at the same time is like using two mice simultaneously to move the same cursor - there is no touchpad rejection or anything.

 

This is only a partial workaround because it stops the polling rate of the trackpoint plummeting to 30Hz for many seconds after I touch the touchpad in anyway. I still need to touch the touchpad at least once a minute to prevent it from going back to 30Hz. But now I can touch the touchpad at the same time as the trackpoint and it doesn't affect the trackpoint polling rate at all.

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6 Posts

11-25-2020

Belarus

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  • Message 5 of 22

Re:Thinkpad E490 trackpoint report rate goes down.

2021-08-07, 0:11 AM

Hey @sds100 ! I'm also using linux and had been experiencing exactly the same behavior on my t490 as on your video until I replaced the trackpad, I tried for a long time playing with settings, module parameters, enabling/disabling things in bios, nothing worked until I replaced it. Well,it seems it's a more common thing, huuh..  I'd suggest you to to pull out the ribbon cable that connects MB and the trackpad to confirm the trackpoint works fine without the trackpad being electrically connected. I would say it's kinda workaround if you aren't using your trackpad at all, so you can keep the cable detached. I hope that helps.  I ordered  01LX660 just to have all the components work as I expect and 25 buсks is not that price, but I can't guarantee you that the exact trackpad model/firmware version you'll receive will be a remedy for you. I tried and it worked for me. I'll be happy to help you, let me know if you have any questions. Cheers

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9 Posts

08-01-2021

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

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  • Message 6 of 22

Re:Thinkpad E490 trackpoint report rate goes down.

2021-08-07, 1:54 AM
Thanks for the reply! Yeah, I tried removing the trackpad's ribbon cable but that also disables the trackpoint and trackpoint buttons. This is normal behaviour for Thinkpads I think. Do you also have an ALPS trackpoint? This is such a weird, distracting issue and I'm very surprised that it hasn't been mentioned more online. Maybe people are reporting it as something else.
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6 Posts

11-25-2020

Belarus

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  • Message 7 of 22

Re:Thinkpad E490 trackpoint report rate goes down.

2021-08-07, 7:00 AM

I've got Elan trackpoint. Well, I think maybe people just get disappointed by the idea of trackpoint after a few tries because of this issue, and never use it after. Or maybe it affects only some HW revisions of the maylar trackpad.

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9 Posts

08-01-2021

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

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  • Message 8 of 22

Re:Thinkpad E490 trackpoint report rate goes down.

2021-08-22, 9:52 AM

So I did the trackpad replacement but I have the issue reported by the OP here: https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/l393ws/t14_glass_trackpad_replacement_not_working_seller/

 

This is more annoying that just having a finger slightly rest on the trackpad so that the polling rate stays high. It would be great if someone could figure out a way to make the glass trackpad work in Linux without having to use Windows to "reset" it so that it does. It is a much nicer trackpad than the default one for the T14/P14s.

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6 Posts

08-22-2021

Sweden

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  • Message 9 of 22

Re:Thinkpad E490 trackpoint report rate goes down.

2021-08-22, 12:14 PM

Just chiming in with a "me too"... I have a Thinkpad P14s Gen 2 AMD (which I believe is essentially the same as T14 Gen 2 AMD), running Ubuntu 20.04 with kernel 5.11.0-27.

 

Same problem: as measured by evhz, the trackpoint is averaging 80-85 Hz but then drops dramatically down to 30-32 Hz after exactly 30 seconds if I don't touch the trackpad. Then goes back up to 80-85 for another 30 seconds if I touch the trackpad (even if the trackpad is "disabled"). Very annoying. I've played with different psmouse kernel module options (proto imps, bare, auto), trackpad disabled (or not) in BIOS, the udev rules mentioned above - nothing helps. Also tried Arch with kernel 5.13. Nope. Tried different keyboards (Lite-On and Chicony). Nope. Gotta touch that trackpad every 30 seconds.

 

The thing is that I'm pretty sure the trackpoint - it's an Elantech one - was completely fine in Windows on the same machine, so it feels like it should be possible to do something about this on a driver level.

 

I'm tempted to try the trackpad replacement that @Helmos and @sds100 mentioned but it's starting to feel ridiculous. I don't even want/need a trackpad - I'd try physically disabling it if it didn't affect the trackpoint buttons (which it apparently does?).

 

@MarkRHPearson : I saw you in another trackpoint thread (for a different issue) - any ideas?

 

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6 Posts

08-22-2021

Sweden

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  • Message 10 of 22

Re:Thinkpad E490 trackpoint report rate goes down.

2021-08-22, 12:20 PM

@sds100 Apart from the trackpad not working, did the replacement actually fix the trackpoint polling issue?

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