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01-07-2016

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Re: Early P70 First Impressions

2016-01-10, 19:56 PM

Upgraded the Win7 pre-install to Win10 (using Lenovo Win10 restore USB key) which generated a few more first impressions.

 

(Win10) 11) Loud speaker pop still exists.  OS upgrade did not "fix" - appears to be a hardware issue.

 

(Win10) 12) Screen font size set very big (automatically by installer) which causes some problems of correct display for Lenovo programs and also other software.

 

(Win10) 13) Ran the hardware check last night, left it running, then came back in morning to view results.  System was asleep due to inactivity (which is fine) - pressed flashing green power button to wake from standby, signed in to Win10, and results were minimized.  Cannot maximize or bring up results.  Seems the Lenovo Solution Center is stuck in some strange state.   Tried "maximize" on process from Task master, tried clicking on LSCC icon.  What I see is the screen flash with the LSCC contents - then goes back to as if it was a quick maximize/minimize.

 

... couldn't record a video to demo - assuming most screen recording software has an issue with 4k screen.
 
Tried CamStudio, Screen Recorder
 
    So far, it appears software-wise more was working under Win7.  Even without touch - I'm fine with Win 8.1 and Win10 - so I have no pre-disposition to the OS itself.   I prefer Win10.
 
 
 

 

 

 

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2925 Posts

06-13-2013

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  • Message 12 of 28

Re: Early P70 First Impressions

2016-01-10, 21:15 PM

wrote:

(Win10) 11) Loud speaker pop still exists.  OS upgrade did not "fix" - appears to be a hardware issue.

 


I'm of the opinion that you're right, that this is a hardware problem in the speakers themselves.

 

To me, it's as if the speaker diaphragm is "getting stuck on something", perhaps contracting and getting cold after long periods of non-use.  And then it has to "break free" when required to vibrate, and that's the "pop" which emits right at the very beginning of sound after a period of non-use.  Perhaps it's gone convex or concave or is creased in some way, and it needs to be the other way to emit sound, and that "pop" is a physical result of pushing past the critical pressure point so that it has now been restored to the proper shape and can now again produce sound.

 

Once it's been broken free (e.g. immediately after the pop and throughout the sound stream which triggered the pop, and for a period after that sound ends), there is no further popping and sounds appear normal.  But some time later, after "going cold", once again some next sound required will again trigger the pop.  Again, it's like the speaker diaphragm has contracted back and reverted to its original "cold" shape, which will once again need to be "popped out" to be usable.

 

I agree... this sounds "physical".

 

But even when working, the sound is not great.  The speakers are small and are both located in the horizontal strip above the keyboard, maybe 4" apart.  No stereo separation.

 

Clearly the placement of the small speakers where they've been placed, and resulting lack of the stereo separation, is the obvious negative result of being forced to use the current keyboard design that includes the numeric keypad.  Note that I myself have zero use for the numeric keypad, and certainly wish Lenovo would have offered an optional keyboard without it.  But Im sure the speakers would still have had to be in this horizontal strip above the keyboard regardless, in order to support the possible full-size keyboard WITH the numeric pad.  There's simply no place for the speakers on the left side and right side as was the case with the W530.

 

In passing I mention that I've just now ordered the lightweight Lenovo in-ear headphones (which also includes a microphone), to plug into the headphone audio connector jack on the P70 and carry in my case.  Interestingly, the Dolby Home Theater software is "off" with the built-in speakers.  I suspect it will become active when I change audio output Playback Devices to be from the headphones.  I need to experiment with my own headphones now, to see how it sounds.

 

 

I'm still getting used to the "reversed" placement of things on left and right edges that Lenovo engineered into the P70, as contrasted with where those things were on the W530.

 

(a) Three USB ports on the right edge instead of on the left.  This affects cable lengths and laptop placement on your desk.

 

(b) Optical drive tray on left edge instead of on the right, and right at the front left-corner with the P70 rather than toward the rear right-corner with the W530.  I find my right hand involuntarily wanting to reach for the EJECT button on the right side toward the back, where it just feels to me like that's where it should naturally be located.

 

 

Finally, I guess I've decided that I'm not impressed with the color calibration of the screen using the built-in color sensor and X-Rite software.  It's supposed to be D65, but to me the result has less color than I think D65 should. It certainly doesn't look "natural" and "full-colored".  Maybe this is some "vibrancy" in the color that I'm missing.  It may be proper D65 color, but I'm not convinced.  It doesn't look right to me.

 

I absolutely think the color on my W530 is "better", with the ICC profile I'm using.  This is not the result of my own calibration using my own equipment and my own W530 screen, but is actually using a 3rd-party ICC profile produced by another W530 user who used his own external color calibrator and shared the results with the general W530 user community on the forum.  No question that side-by-side with the P70 calibrated using its built-in sensor you would prefer the W530's appearance.

 

Quite honestly, I'm hoping somebody else who gets a P70 without the built-in color sensor and performs their own external calibration to produce an ICC profile and shares it, like the W530 owner did... I'd certainly like to give that a try.  I'm just not in love with the overall result with what I've got now.

 

This is very easily demonstrated simply by simultaneously having a beautifully colored and balanced photo image that's onscreen on both the desktop from the the laptop screen as well as on my external Eizo monitor (which is running using the generic Eizo-provided ICC profile from the INF for the S2433W, having nothing at all to do with any specific calibration for my specific monitor using calibration equipment and software).  It looks beautiful on the Eizo screen, natural human skin tone, green, red, blue, white, contrast, etc.  In contrast it just doesn't really look as "vibrant" on the P70 screen.  And I'm not being distracted by the size difference of the images on the two screens.  I'm talking about the actual rendition of color and contrast, and what it looks like side-by-side.

 

I've tried playing with the color controls in nVidia Control Panel, but that just ruins what the D65 calibration did.  Other colors are damaged badly, just to get human skin tone right in the photo.

 

I would be very interested in hearing responses from other P70 users (few as there might be yet) who also have the built-in color sensor, on the color results of the self-calibration on their own machines.

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187 Posts

01-01-2016

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  • Message 13 of 28

Re: Early P70 First Impressions

2016-01-10, 22:43 PM

wrote:

Upgraded the Win7 pre-install to Win10 (using Lenovo Win10 restore USB key) which generated a few more first impressions.

  

 


Do you know if the Lenovo Win 10 USB key is a clean install that includes Lenovo drivers and software (as opposed to an upgrade from Win 7 to Win 10)?  Put another way, would this USB key used later (after installing programs in Win 7) wipe out everything and give you a Lenovo Win 10 factory install?

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2925 Posts

06-13-2013

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  • Message 14 of 28

Re: Early P70 First Impressions

2016-01-11, 3:01 AM

wrote:

Finally, I guess I've decided that I'm not impressed with the color calibration of the screen using the built-in color sensor and X-Rite software.  It's supposed to be D65, but to me the result has less color than I think D65 should. It certainly doesn't look "natural" and "full-colored".  Maybe this is some "vibrancy" in the color that I'm missing. 

 

I would be very interested in hearing responses from other P70 users (few as there might be yet) who also have the built-in color sensor, on the color results of the self-calibration on their own machines.


I've decided I really don't care for the calibrated color results.  I've deleted the generated ICM's which have been produced, and am now back to "factory" settings for MONITOR\LEN4121 (shown in Device Manager, Properties, Hardware ID) and default nVidia Control Panel colors.

 

I looked in C:\Drivers\Win\Monitor and looked at the INF and there's no factory-provided color profile for LEN4121.  I guess this built-in color sensor and X-Rite software is supposed to be used, and the resulting ICM should be perfect D65.  But for my money it's not satisfying.  I actually prefer not using it.

 

But actually, as I've said earlier, I actually prefer the color on my W530 screen resulting from the "shared ICM" posted by another W530 user who used an external color calibrator and then published his resulting ICM. Works beautifully on my own W530.

 

So, once again, I'd really like to hear what others who have the built-in color sensor think of their own results.

 

Also, if there's someone out there with a P70 without the built-in color sensor, but like with my W530 story who has their own external color sensor and has gone through their own calibration to produce their own ICM, I'd very much like to try that ICM file on my own P70.  I do believe the color from default non-calibrated results needs improvement, but I'm honestly not impressed with the results I'm getting from the built-in sensor.  Flesh tone is just not right.

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9 Posts

01-07-2016

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  • Message 15 of 28

Re: Early P70 First Impressions

2016-01-11, 6:26 AM

Upgrading from Win7 to Win10 using the Lenovo method will wipe the disk.  I did not install anything significant in the few days of running Win7, so this was not an issue.   The benefit to using the Lenovo recovery method is that the "bloatware" (which the P70 is fairly slim on, and at this point I'm happy with all of the Lenovo customizations in terms of 3rd party/Lenovo software) -- is that the "bloatware" is installed by the key which puts the system as if released from the factory with Win10. 

 

Since there is not much I can tell that cannot be downloaded in perhaps only a handful of items - using Microsoft's Win10 upgrade would not be a bad option if you already had lots of applications installed as a previous Win 8 (not sure of Win 7) upgrade to Win 10 kept all of my files and applications including making a backup which could roll-back.

 

Regarding calibrated results - under Win7 I chose "Native" as the white balance which I thought was marginally better than the factory settings.  In Win10 I chose the default which was D65 (photo = default).  In both cases gamma was the default 2.2.

 

D65 using the before/after seemed to put too much yellow in the image.  I was more impressed with the default profile overall vs. D65.

]

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06-13-2013

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  • Message 16 of 28

Re: Early P70 First Impressions

2016-01-11, 6:40 AM

wrote:

 

Regarding calibrated results - under Win7 I chose "Native" as the white balance which I thought was marginally better than the factory settings.  In Win10 I chose the default which was D65 (photo = default).  In both cases gamma was the default 2.2.

 

D65 using the before/after seemed to put too much yellow in the image.  I was more impressed with the default profile overall vs. D65.

 


By "default profile" do you mean when specifying "native", or do you mean before even starting your first calibration?

 

I don't think there is ANY ICC/ICM in use by default when the machine first starts.  Certainly the Color Management button in Properties -> Color Management shows no "default" profile.  What are you describing?

 

I hadn't experimented using "native", but maybe I will.  I agree with you, who apparently agrees with me... that the D65 color just looks off, and "a bit yellow" is a good description.  Not right.

 

So what are you going to do?  Do you have your own external colorimiter and software that you plan to use?  Or are you just going to with the results of the P70 calibration using "native?  Or are you going to use whatever this "default profile" you mention is?

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2925 Posts

06-13-2013

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  • Message 17 of 28

Re: Early P70 First Impressions

2016-01-11, 6:55 AM

wrote:

Upgrading from Win7 to Win10 using the Lenovo method will wipe the disk.  I did not install anything significant in the few days of running Win7, so this was not an issue.   The benefit to using the Lenovo recovery method is that the "bloatware" (which the P70 is fairly slim on, and at this point I'm happy with all of the Lenovo customizations in terms of 3rd party/Lenovo software) -- is that the "bloatware" is installed by the key which puts the system as if released from the factory with Win10. 

 

Since there is not much I can tell that cannot be downloaded in perhaps only a handful of items - using Microsoft's Win10 upgrade would not be a bad option if you already had lots of applications installed as a previous Win 8 (not sure of Win 7) upgrade to Win 10 kept all of my files and applications including making a backup which could roll-back.

 

Regarding calibrated results - under Win7 I chose "Native" as the white balance which I thought was marginally better than the factory settings.  In Win10 I chose the default which was D65 (photo = default).  In both cases gamma was the default 2.2.

 

D65 using the before/after seemed to put too much yellow in the image.  I was more impressed with the default profile overall vs. D65.

]


Well, I've now done a calibration using "native".  You're absolutely right.  It's not great, but it's certainly better than D65 and also looks better than factory, i.e. with no ICM in effect.

 

So I'll stay with this for now, until/unless someone posts an ICM from their own profiling of a P70 screen using an external colorimiter, which as it was for my W530, a really good step up in color accuracy.

 

Thanks for the info.

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187 Posts

01-01-2016

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  • Message 18 of 28

Re: Early P70 First Impressions

2016-01-11, 16:06 PM

wrote:

Upgrading from Win7 to Win10 using the Lenovo method will wipe the disk.  I did not install anything significant in the few days of running Win7, so this was not an issue.   The benefit to using the Lenovo recovery method is that the "bloatware" (which the P70 is fairly slim on, and at this point I'm happy with all of the Lenovo customizations in terms of 3rd party/Lenovo software) -- is that the "bloatware" is installed by the key which puts the system as if released from the factory with Win10. 

 

]

Exactly what I need to know.  Thanks!

 

If I get a P50, I'm thinking about immediately going to Win 10.  I'm coming from Win 7, having completely avoided Win 8.  Do you recommend Win 10 over Win 7?

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2925 Posts

06-13-2013

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  • Message 19 of 28

Re: Early P70 First Impressions

2016-01-13, 1:05 AM

wrote:

I've decided I really don't care for the calibrated color results.  I've deleted the generated ICM's which have been produced, and am now back to "factory" settings for MONITOR\LEN4121 (shown in Device Manager, Properties, Hardware ID) and default nVidia Control Panel colors.

 

Also, if there's someone out there with a P70 without the built-in color sensor, but like with my W530 story who has their own external color sensor and has gone through their own calibration to produce their own ICM, I'd very much like to try that ICM file on my own P70. 

 


I've always felt I should have one of these colimiters anyway, as I have a number of monitors and a number of PCs.

 

So yesterday I bought this X-Rite i1Display Pro gizmo.  It will be here by tonight.

 

Let's see what it can do with the P70 1920x1080 IPS screen.

 

 

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84 Posts

12-09-2009

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  • Message 20 of 28

Re: Early P70 First Impressions

2016-01-13, 11:41 AM

wrote:

I've always felt I should have one of these colimiters anyway, as I have a number of monitors and a number of PCs.

So yesterday I bought this X-Rite i1Display Pro gizmo.  It will be here by tonight.

Let's see what it can do with the P70 1920x1080 IPS screen.


This is a much better idea than relying on someone else's profile, even if you have the same hardware. The colors displayed change over time as the machine ages. You can easily see this when you profile the screen and compare profiles.

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