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10 Posts

10-29-2018

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Extremely slow P50/P51 systems

2018-11-19, 23:15 PM

Hey there. I'm struggling with an issue where I have some P50 and P51 laptops that are behaving extremely slow for no apparent reason. For example, when booting two P51 laptops, one (we'll call it system A) which has been recently imaged and the other (system B) has been in use for the last few weeks System A is almost fully booted by the time System B reached the log in screen. System A will boot in about 4 - 5 minutes, System B will boot in 8 - 9 minutes. However it's not just booting that is slow, simply using the computers can be a painfully slow experience. When viewing the event logs, System B is showing a lot of timeout events at startup (such as "A timeout was reached (30000 milliseconds) while waiting for the Wcmsvc service to connect.") which seem to relate to drivers for non existant devices so I've gone in and uninstalled anything that isn't attached but this hasn't made any difference. 

Now, if I send system A out into the world to be used by a user, they will eventually come back to me complaining of it being extremely slow. It could be a few weeks, or just a few days. These users are not power users, they are typically using Word and Excel and some web browsing. Fairly typical and basic stuff. They are absolutely not going in and messing with system settings of any kind.

 

System A and System B are imaged with the same configuration of Windows 10 1803. 

While they have 16B of ram, they are running with a 5400RPM drive. However, even with that drive, they should not be as slow as they are getting so please DO NOT suggest replacing the drives with an SSD. I'm well aware of how an SSD can improve performance but I'm telling you the performance I'm seeing on these is substantially well below what the existing drive should be providing. 

Also, apparently uploading the System Event log is more complicated than I expected so any insight there would be great should anyone want to look at that.

Thanks.

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434 Posts

08-02-2018

United States of America

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  • Message 2 of 16

Re: Extremely slow P50/P51 systems

2018-11-20, 11:46 AM

Hello there, DaveWilson! 

 

Welcome to the Lenovo community group! 

 

Kindly try the steps below: 

 

1. Run an error scan on the HDD using the Lenovo Vantage app https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/ht505081?CID=ww:lenovosocial:20x9m6.

 

2. If you don't get an error, download and install HDTune (3rd party HDD utility) https://www.hdtune.com/?linkId=56179254 then run an error scan on the HDD. When finished, paste the result of the Health and Error scan Tab here (see reference article http://www.hdtune.com/faq_1.html?linkId=56179255).

 

Regards!



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3936 Posts

12-02-2007

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  • Message 3 of 16

Re: Extremely slow P50/P51 systems

2018-11-20, 12:36 PM

Hello,

 

Since you mentioned the machines were imaged with a Windows 10 1803 configuration, I am assuming they Lenovo factory pre-load of Windows is no longer present?   My initial thought would be to look through there for a mis-configuration (DNS or DHCP settings, routing issue, folder redirection issue, missing Windows 10 hotfix, etc.)

 

Try re-installing the Lenovo factory pre-load and see how a system performs, as well as a vanilla image from the VLSC.  If the systems perform correctly with those, try manually performing the customizations you apply to the operating system, rebooting between each one (or do just a few at at time) and re-running your tests to see how the system performs.

 

I would also suggest installing a SSD and deploying your current image to it, just so that you can verify the slowness occurs with it.  That will help confirm that the slowdown is not related to the drive type.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 

 



I am a volunteer and neither a Lenovo nor a Microsoft employee.

L380 YogaP72 (20MB-*)P50 (20EN-*)S230u (3347-4HU)T23 (2648-LU7)T42 (2378-R4U)T43p (2678-H7U)T61p (6459-CTO)W510 (4318-CTO)W530 (2441-4R3)W530 (2441-4R3)X100e (3508-CTO)X120e (0596-CTO)X220 (4286-CTO)X250 (20CM-*)Yoga 370

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10 Posts

10-29-2018

Canada

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Re: Extremely slow P50/P51 systems

2018-11-20, 16:33 PM

Thanks Chris. Oddly, I seem unable to download the Vantage software from the Windows store. It shows I "own the software", and there's an install button. But clicking Install does nothing at all. No error messages, no blink of the cursor that might indicate the computer tried to do something, nothing at all. I've rebooted. Same result. Would you have naother way for me to access this?

I'm currently running a free trial of the HDTune but I'm not sure this the right route to go. If it was single device, or even a couple, then maybe. But this happening with dozens of systems. Potentially up to 200 systems are affected. 

The way it feels is that, something in our image has exposed a flaw in the drive controller that doesn't register a problem in diagnostic tools. I'm really grasping at straws now though. 

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  • Message 5 of 16

Re: Extremely slow P50/P51 systems

2018-11-20, 16:40 PM

Hey. Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately the typical troubleshooting steps don't seem to reveal any issues anywhere. Our Windows 10 installation is a very basic, default installation with a connection to our AD servers and very minor SCCM configurations with minimal software installs such as MS Office 2016, Firefox and Chrome, Adobe Acrobat. The exact same image is used on nearly 1700 other Lenovo systems and some Dells without issue (minus some obviously different hardware drivers). 

And sure, throwing in an SSD is an option...And it works fine, but if it's being slowed down, I can't tell because the SSD speeds could be masking the problem. The point is, we'd much rather avoid spending $30,000 - $40,000 replacing these drives if at all possible by finding an actual solution to the problem.

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3936 Posts

12-02-2007

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  • Message 6 of 16

Re: Extremely slow P50/P51 systems

2018-11-21, 10:54 AM

Hello,

 

I would suggest trying to rule out an issue with the installation being deployed from the SCCM server by performing a clean installation of Windows 10 from the Microsoft-provide .ISO.  During installation, do not join at AD/ADFS domain or use a Microsoft account, just a local account. 

 

No Office, Chrome or Acrobat.

 

For updates, put the machine on an isolated network segment with Internet access to Microsoft's Update Catalog servers, and let it download and install all available updates (be sure to select the Give me updates for other Microsoft products when I update Windows option to ensure you get everything).

 

At this point, the machine should have a basic, default installation of Windows 10, and you can start testing and benchmarking the systems to see how long it takes to get from a powered-down state to the login screen.  You can also test operations like sleeping, resuming from sleep, hibernating and waking the computer, and so forth.

 

If everything checks out okay, I would suggest installing the Lenovo Vantage app through the Microsoft Store, and then run it to install any Lenovo-specific driver updates that were not delivered via Windows Update.  After those are done, you can repeat your boot/power tests to see if there is any difference.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 



I am a volunteer and neither a Lenovo nor a Microsoft employee.

L380 YogaP72 (20MB-*)P50 (20EN-*)S230u (3347-4HU)T23 (2648-LU7)T42 (2378-R4U)T43p (2678-H7U)T61p (6459-CTO)W510 (4318-CTO)W530 (2441-4R3)W530 (2441-4R3)X100e (3508-CTO)X120e (0596-CTO)X220 (4286-CTO)X250 (20CM-*)Yoga 370

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10 Posts

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Canada

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  • Message 7 of 16

Re: Extremely slow P50/P51 systems

2018-11-22, 16:34 PM

Hi. Thanks. I thought I had mentioned here but it appears I forgot. I have already done a basic installation of Windows and that appears to work without any issues at all. 

Running the Hardware scan from the Vantage software on a currently troubled system has found nothing wrong. Now, on this specific system it was taking around 8 minutes to boot to a usable desktop. I removed our Antivirus software (Sophos) and the boot time is now around 4.5 - 6+ minutes to get to the usable desktop. Interestingly, the Lenovo boot screen is up for about 2 - 2.5 minutes of that time...Would be nice to get that down to just a few seconds like other systems.

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3936 Posts

12-02-2007

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  • Message 8 of 16

Re: Extremely slow P50/P51 systems

2018-11-23, 8:09 AM

Hello,

 

If the basic Windows 10 installation works, as well as the basic Windows 10 installation with just Lenovo Vantage and whatever updates it installs onto the computer, then I am thinking the issue may be something with the deployment (corrupt package in SCCM, wrong DNS settings, etc.).

 

Oh, if you are using hard disk drives that didn't come with the P50 or P51 computers, then try running their manufacturer's diagnostics and see if they find anything that Vantage does not.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 



I am a volunteer and neither a Lenovo nor a Microsoft employee.

L380 YogaP72 (20MB-*)P50 (20EN-*)S230u (3347-4HU)T23 (2648-LU7)T42 (2378-R4U)T43p (2678-H7U)T61p (6459-CTO)W510 (4318-CTO)W530 (2441-4R3)W530 (2441-4R3)X100e (3508-CTO)X120e (0596-CTO)X220 (4286-CTO)X250 (20CM-*)Yoga 370

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172 Posts

06-01-2014

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  • Message 9 of 16

Re: Extremely slow P50/P51 systems

2018-11-27, 13:32 PM

Depending on how you carried it out the cloning, you might have screwed up the file permissions of Windows 10, like really, really badly.

The long boot times are caused by Windows having to assign temporary rights to access the files on boot.

 

You can try two things:

  1. Create an ICACLS backup of the old partition and overwrite the file ACLs on the new partition.
  2. Re-image again. BUT, shut down once you are done, pull out the old drive and try booting again. Trying to bootup with both drives connected is freaking suicide. When you clone the drives the volume serial number is cloned as well. Windows detects the conflict and disable the old drive, but if it's too slow, Windows may end up invalidating the ACLs on one drive because it is sh1t confused and doesn't know which drive it's actually reading on.

I have highlighted this design bug privately to Microsoft before but they are not keen on addressing the issue, because I was merely told to "pull out the old drive" before booting the new one. Unfortunately, if you were a dumb user and forgot to pull it out, that the file permissions can really screw up.

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10 Posts

10-29-2018

Canada

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  • Message 10 of 16

Re: Extremely slow P50/P51 systems

2018-11-27, 16:07 PM
There is only one drive and no cloning being done.

Unfortunately I've reached a point where I've spent far too much time on this and am just going to recommend people switch to an SSD drive. I hate not solving a problem properly, but I have to admit defeat.
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