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6434 Posts

10-29-2009

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Re: Latest NVidia Graphics drivers with 1.3.37 HD Audio driver: no NVidia HD Audio device gets insta

2019-01-02, 19:23 PM

I was able to reproduce the HDMI audio problem with n1cdh81w and ThinkPad P70 BIOS set as "Discrete Graphics".  I couldn't figure out on my own why this problem happens so I need to get help from our video driver team.  I'll let you guys know what I hear back from them.

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2217 Posts

04-20-2008

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Re: Latest NVidia Graphics drivers with 1.3.37 HD Audio driver: no NVidia HD Audio device gets insta

2019-01-02, 20:59 PM

BTW, the same HD Audio driver works fine on the P1 set to discrete.


P53 XEON 2276 BIOS 1.23 OLED UHD 4K Multi-touch display, 96GB RAM, RTX5000, RAID 1, 1TB x 2 Samsung PM981, 1TB PM981, WWAN
P70 XEON 1505, BIOS 2.35, 4k Display, 64GB, M3000M NVIDIA GPU, RAID1 1TB Samsung PM981 PCIe-NVMe SSD x 2, 2x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD. EM7455 WWAN
P1. BIOS 1.25,Xeon Processor, 4k UHD IPS multi-touch display, 32GB, PM981 1TB x 2, RAID1

I am not an employee nor an agent of Lenovo.
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2458 Posts

06-13-2013

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Re: Latest NVidia Graphics drivers with 1.3.37 HD Audio driver: no NVidia HD Audio device gets insta

2019-01-02, 21:14 PM

Excellent, so to speak, that you've also confirmed the problem we have observed on our P70 when running in discrete graphics mode:

 

(a)  1.3.37.x HDMI audio driver installs properly (along with the new Nvidia Virtual Audio Device, whatever that is) when running hybrid graphics mode. Probably of interest as well, when installing while in discrete graphics mode, the new with 1.3.37.x NVidia Virtual Audio Device driver object does NOT get installed.

 

(b) having successfully installed first while in hybrid graphics, for some reason HDMI audio objects "disappear" from Device Manager and Playback Devices when you change the BIOS to specify discrete graphics and connect a cable from either the laptop's miniDP or HDMI connectors to an external display/HDTV/AVR which should have audio capability.  Oddly, the new Nvidia Virtual Audio Device object remains, but just the "regular" NVidia HDMI Audio Device object disappears, hence forcing audio out to the remaining analog Realtek speakers of the laptop in Playback Devices.

 

(c) This occurs not only with 398.36/1.3.37.4 from Lenovo but also with all newer 411.xx Quadro (notebook) WHQL packages obtained directly from the Nvidia site, all of which include 1.3.37.5 of the HDMI audio driver. I've tried the newer 416.xx driver from Nvidia (non-WHQL) and it also fails, so whatever's happening apparently started with the inclusion of the 1.3.37.x HDMI Audio Driver, no matter which video driver it comes along with.

 

(d) There are NO SUCH ISSUES running with any older driver installer package (from either Lenovo or Nvidia) which still includes HDMI audio driver version 1.3.36.6.  This includes the last 392.00/1.3.36.6 from Nvidia and older WHQL packages, as well as the the last 389.08/1.3.36.6 package from Lenovo, along with all prior Optimus driver packages. Everything installs perfectly and then works perfectly post-install, delivering both HDMI audio and video through the connected cable.  Note that there is no Nvidia Virtual Audio Device object that gets installed with 1.3.36.6 if that is of any relevance, which it probably is.

 

 

Just to add additional information that may be of help to the engineers who look into this, the exact same problem occurs on my W530.  And I notice now that the latest 398.36/1.3.37.4 package was just made available for the W530 on Dec 16.  I had already tried the even newer 411.95/1.3.37.5 package from NVidia on my W530 which is when I proved that it failed on the W530 as well.  So I'm going to assume the latest 398.36/1.3.37.4 package from Lenovo will also fail.

 

I observe that both the P70 and W530 have miniDP ports supported by the nVidia GPU.  The P70 also has an HDMI connector supported by the NVidia GPU.  I've reproduced this current HDMI audio driver install failure issue on both the W530 and P70 when using a miniDP->HDMI cable, and also on the P70 when using a straight HDMI->HDMI cable.

 

@HarrisB also reports that this failure does NOT occur with the P1 set to discrete graphics mode.  I believe the P1 only has an HDMI connector and no miniDP connector.  So it may be that the HDMI support hardware/firmware works somewhat differently on the P1 where there is no DisplayPort hardware to also support and that this difference is the key to why there is a failure on at least the P70 and W530, if not also on other similar machines that also contain miniDP hardware/firmware.

 

==> I think the "giant clue" here is to understand what this new NVidia Virtual Audio Device (WAVE Extensible) (WDM) device object is which first got delivered with 1.3.37.x of the HDMI audio driver.  Then there is also the mystery about why it got installed properly while in hybrid graphics mode with the new 1.3.37.x version of the HDMI Audio Driver, but does not get installed at all while in discrete graphics mode.  And then there's the HDMI Audio Device which claims to be "installed" at time of software installation by the confirmation dialog (assuming you run the standalone NVidia portion SETUP.exe from within the Optimus package), but then DISAPPEARS when an HDMI cable actually gets connected.

 

Good luck to the team.

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  • Message 44 of 91

Re: Latest NVidia Graphics drivers with 1.3.37 HD Audio driver: no NVidia HD Audio device gets insta

2019-01-03, 12:59 PM

 wrote:

Excellent, so to speak, that you've also confirmed the problem we have observed on our P70 when running in discrete graphics mode:

 

(a)  1.3.37.x HDMI audio driver installs properly (along with the new Nvidia Virtual Audio Device, whatever that is) when running hybrid graphics mode. Probably of interest as well, when installing while in discrete graphics mode, the new with 1.3.37.x NVidia Virtual Audio Device driver object does NOT get installed.

 

(b) having successfully installed first while in hybrid graphics, for some reason HDMI audio objects "disappear" from Device Manager and Playback Devices when you change the BIOS to specify discrete graphics and connect a cable from either the laptop's miniDP or HDMI connectors to an external display/HDTV/AVR which should have audio capability.  Oddly, the new Nvidia Virtual Audio Device object remains, but just the "regular" NVidia HDMI Audio Device object disappears, hence forcing audio out to the remaining analog Realtek speakers of the laptop in Playback Devices.

 

(c) This occurs not only with 398.36/1.3.37.4 from Lenovo but also with all newer 411.xx Quadro (notebook) WHQL packages obtained directly from the Nvidia site, all of which include 1.3.37.5 of the HDMI audio driver. I've tried the newer 416.xx driver from Nvidia (non-WHQL) and it also fails, so whatever's happening apparently started with the inclusion of the 1.3.37.x HDMI Audio Driver, no matter which video driver it comes along with.

 

(d) There are NO SUCH ISSUES running with any older driver installer package (from either Lenovo or Nvidia) which still includes HDMI audio driver version 1.3.36.6.  This includes the last 392.00/1.3.36.6 from Nvidia and older WHQL packages, as well as the the last 389.08/1.3.36.6 package from Lenovo, along with all prior Optimus driver packages. Everything installs perfectly and then works perfectly post-install, delivering both HDMI audio and video through the connected cable.  Note that there is no Nvidia Virtual Audio Device object that gets installed with 1.3.36.6 if that is of any relevance, which it probably is.

 

 

Just to add additional information that may be of help to the engineers who look into this, the exact same problem occurs on my W530.  And I notice now that the latest 398.36/1.3.37.4 package was just made available for the W530 on Dec 16.  I had already tried the even newer 411.95/1.3.37.5 package from NVidia on my W530 which is when I proved that it failed on the W530 as well.  So I'm going to assume the latest 398.36/1.3.37.4 package from Lenovo will also fail.

 

I observe that both the P70 and W530 have miniDP ports supported by the nVidia GPU.  The P70 also has an HDMI connector supported by the NVidia GPU.  I've reproduced this current HDMI audio driver install failure issue on both the W530 and P70 when using a miniDP->HDMI cable, and also on the P70 when using a straight HDMI->HDMI cable.

 

@HarrisB also reports that this failure does NOT occur with the P1 set to discrete graphics mode.  I believe the P1 only has an HDMI connector and no miniDP connector.  So it may be that the HDMI support hardware/firmware works somewhat differently on the P1 where there is no DisplayPort hardware to also support and that this difference is the key to why there is a failure on at least the P70 and W530, if not also on other similar machines that also contain miniDP hardware/firmware.

 

==> I think the "giant clue" here is to understand what this new NVidia Virtual Audio Device (WAVE Extensible) (WDM) device object is which first got delivered with 1.3.37.x of the HDMI audio driver.  Then there is also the mystery about why it got installed properly while in hybrid graphics mode with the new 1.3.37.x version of the HDMI Audio Driver, but does not get installed at all while in discrete graphics mode.  And then there's the HDMI Audio Device which claims to be "installed" at time of software installation by the confirmation dialog (assuming you run the standalone NVidia portion SETUP.exe from within the Optimus package), but then DISAPPEARS when an HDMI cable actually gets connected.

 

Good luck to the team.


Just an additional data point here. I have had occurrences when the HD Audio driver was present and then the audio was enabled over HDMI. The driver is most definitely being installed, but the system is not detecting a complete audio solution in the connection. I suspect either a timing issue with the HDMI implementation on the P70 or some other point of interference. The NVIDIA control panel shows the monitor as audio capable in the system typology, but Windows does not think so, hence the HD driver does not load. I've also tried the most current HD driver from NVIDIA with no behavior change. All the while, the monitor is recognized by Windows 10 1809 for video and works as expected. This may be a driver conflict in Windows which is creating the problem. The fact that I can successfully get the audio functioning on my P1 with the SAME HD Audio driver with the same OS (Windows 10 1809) would seem to vindicate the NVIDIA driver.

 

 


P53 XEON 2276 BIOS 1.23 OLED UHD 4K Multi-touch display, 96GB RAM, RTX5000, RAID 1, 1TB x 2 Samsung PM981, 1TB PM981, WWAN
P70 XEON 1505, BIOS 2.35, 4k Display, 64GB, M3000M NVIDIA GPU, RAID1 1TB Samsung PM981 PCIe-NVMe SSD x 2, 2x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD. EM7455 WWAN
P1. BIOS 1.25,Xeon Processor, 4k UHD IPS multi-touch display, 32GB, PM981 1TB x 2, RAID1

I am not an employee nor an agent of Lenovo.
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2458 Posts

06-13-2013

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Re: Latest NVidia Graphics drivers with 1.3.37 HD Audio driver: no NVidia HD Audio device gets insta

2019-01-04, 5:00 AM

New alarming data point on this issue:  it has now been reported that the identical "missing HDMI Audio" problem also is now occurring on the ThinkCentre M710q desktop machine!!  See this other thread.

 

And, not surprisingly, looking inside the README for the latest available "NVidia discrete VGA driver" installer download file for the M710q (u3vdo95us14.exe) it is once again characterized by:

 

(a) a graphics driver component of 398.72, even newer than the 398.36 graphics driver now being shown as the newest for both P70 and W530, and

 

(b) the now known to be central new HDMI Audio driver component of 1.3.37.4, which is almost certainly the culprit of incompatibility with Lenovo "discrete graphics" BIOS/firmware on affected machines which now include the M710q.

 

 

NOTE: to be honest I'm a bit puzzled, as the PSREF for the M710q makes no mention of any NVidia graphics hardware available as "some".  I thought this "tiny" machine is an all-Intel graphics device.  So as to why there would be any NVidia graphics driver relevant, I'm not sure.  Perhaps there is simply a built-in onboard NVidia graphics chip dedicated to handle HDMI for the machine and there's no option.  But then why wouldn't they document it in the PSREF?

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2217 Posts

04-20-2008

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Re: Latest NVidia Graphics drivers with 1.3.37 HD Audio driver: no NVidia HD Audio device gets insta

2019-01-06, 13:51 PM

I don't know why I didn't notice this before, but the NVIDIA Control Panel is showing the HDMI monitor as being connected to the DisplayPort and not the HDMI port. That doesn't sound correct. Here's the screenshot:

 

 

And to add to the mystery, if I shutdown the P70 with the monitor attached and wait 5 minutes, the sound capability is restored. However, if I shutdown and then immediately restart the P70, then the audio is gone again. Shutdown the P70, wait 5 minutes and restart, the audio appears again. Sure sounds like a hardware issue to me and not the driver. Highly repeatable. All the time the monitor is powered on.

 

Here's what it looks like on the P1 with the same drivers:

 

i

 

Note that it lists the HDMI port on the system whereas on the P70 it looks like only DisplayPorts are present.

 

Additional info: If I shutdown the system with fast restart enabled, the audio is always present. If I force a complete shutdown using the shift key, then the audio is missing on the first startup. If I then use fast shutdown and restart the system with the power button, the audio reappears. Any restart that starts with using the full BIOS fails the audio. Seems certain that this is a BIOS issue.


P53 XEON 2276 BIOS 1.23 OLED UHD 4K Multi-touch display, 96GB RAM, RTX5000, RAID 1, 1TB x 2 Samsung PM981, 1TB PM981, WWAN
P70 XEON 1505, BIOS 2.35, 4k Display, 64GB, M3000M NVIDIA GPU, RAID1 1TB Samsung PM981 PCIe-NVMe SSD x 2, 2x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD. EM7455 WWAN
P1. BIOS 1.25,Xeon Processor, 4k UHD IPS multi-touch display, 32GB, PM981 1TB x 2, RAID1

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2458 Posts

06-13-2013

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  • Message 47 of 91

Re: Latest NVidia Graphics drivers with 1.3.37 HD Audio driver: no NVidia HD Audio device gets insta

2019-01-07, 0:28 AM

In passing, regarding what was initially believed to be a related "loss of HDMI audio" problem on the M710q (which doesn't even have NVidia hardware, so why there is an NVidia driver available from the download site is a real mystery, as is why the Intel graphics download link has disappeared!)...

 

(1) Turns out the Intel driver download link IS still available for the M910q, and it's the same driver package as is needed for the M710q.  So it's technically still obtainable from Lenovo, even if for some reason the download page for the M710q doesn't provide it.

 

(2) Turns out the "loss of HDMI audio" is due to the recent disappearance of the Intel Display Audio driver, which handles the HDMI audio on the M710q's HDMI port.  Again, there is no NVidia hardware to handle the HDMI or two DisplayPort ports on the box.  These are all handled by the Intel HD Graphics 630, for both video and theoretically audio... via the Intel Display Audio driver, which has now disappeared.

 

Turns out it's due to the Win10 upgrade from 1803 to 1809.  The Intel Display Audio driver disappears because of 1809, and reappears if you roll back to 1803.  This is when using the so-called latest Lenovo-provided Intel graphics driver package which contains (a) 24.20.100.6286 graphics driver, and (b) 10.25.00.10 display audio driver.  This would strongly suggest defects in this Sept 2018 package which makes it clearly incompatible with 1809.

 

(3) Turns out if you ignore the "defective" Lenovo-provided driver package marked "urgent" and dated Sept 26, 2018, and instead go directly to the Intel Downloads site for their latest Intel HD Graphics 630 driver, you will find a driver package dated December 20, 2018 with the release notes PDF stating prominently that it is compatible with 1709, 1803 and 1809.

 

Inside the Intel-provided driver package are newer components: (a) 25.20.100.6471 graphics, and (b) 10.26.00.04 display audio.  This Intel-provided "latest" driver from late December has now been confirmed to "work" on an M710q running with 1809, whereas the Lenovo-provided package from September is clearly problematic.  And by "work" I mean HDMI audio support is once again available, since the Intel Display Audio driver is once again present in Device Manager.

 

Obviously Intel has now fixed whatever was the problem with earlier driver versions, and the fix is present in their December driver package.  Lenovo needs to quickly and "urgently" upgrade their Intel driver packages from the defective September driver that they've now got posted.

 

 

I know this is a bit off-topic, but I wanted to provide this latest info since I thought somehow the M710q problem was related to our NVidia 1.3.37.x HDMI audio problem when running "discrete graphics" with W530 and P70 (and probably other machines as well, although not the P1 apparently) because of the mysterious presence of an NVidia driver download on the M710q/M910q pages even though I don't believe there is any NVidia hardware in those machines.

.

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6434 Posts

10-29-2009

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Re: Latest NVidia Graphics drivers with 1.3.37 HD Audio driver: no NVidia HD Audio device gets insta

2019-01-11, 15:22 PM

I haven't forgotten about this P70 problem, but I don't have any update yet.

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2217 Posts

04-20-2008

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Re: Latest NVidia Graphics drivers with 1.3.37 HD Audio driver: no NVidia HD Audio device gets insta

2019-01-21, 12:53 PM

I applied the following update to the ME firmware this morning and I can no longer reproduce the HDMI issue that I and others have reported.

 

  • Intel Management Engine 11.8 Firmware for Windows 10 (64-bit), 8.1 (64-bit), 7 (64-bit) - ThinkPad P50, P70
  • 11.8.60.3561
  • 17 Jan 2019

 

I'm not certain if this represents a solved condition, but others can apply the update and report back.


P53 XEON 2276 BIOS 1.23 OLED UHD 4K Multi-touch display, 96GB RAM, RTX5000, RAID 1, 1TB x 2 Samsung PM981, 1TB PM981, WWAN
P70 XEON 1505, BIOS 2.35, 4k Display, 64GB, M3000M NVIDIA GPU, RAID1 1TB Samsung PM981 PCIe-NVMe SSD x 2, 2x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD. EM7455 WWAN
P1. BIOS 1.25,Xeon Processor, 4k UHD IPS multi-touch display, 32GB, PM981 1TB x 2, RAID1

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Re: Latest NVidia Graphics drivers with 1.3.37 HD Audio driver: no NVidia HD Audio device gets insta

2019-01-23, 22:40 PM

 wrote:

I applied the following update to the ME firmware this morning and I can no longer reproduce the HDMI issue that I and others have reported.

 

  • Intel Management Engine 11.8 Firmware for Windows 10 (64-bit), 8.1 (64-bit), 7 (64-bit) - ThinkPad P50, P70
  • 11.8.60.3561
  • 17 Jan 2019

 

I'm not certain if this represents a solved condition, but others can apply the update and report back.


I have now applied this N1DRG60W update for Intel ME firmware released 1/17/2019, and I also applied the latest N1DETA2W BIOS update 2.28 released 1/21/2019.  I have tested extensively using the latest Lenovo-released Optimus driver package (Nvidia 398.36/1.3.37.4 and Intel 24.20.100.6344/10.26.0.1).

 

My reporting is that there still is an issue with "disappearing HDMI audio while in discrete graphics mode" when using the Nvidia combination of 398.36/1.3.37.4 instead of my stable production 392.00/1.3.36.6.  Here's what Device Manager looks like going into this new research experimenting.

 

 

I have discovered that if while in discrete graphics mode and using the updated 398.36/1.3.37.4 combination (with HDMI audio NOT present in Device Manager) the graphics driver portion is then "rolled back" (using Device Manager driver rollback feature) to the previously installed 392.00, then the resulting combination of 392.00/1.3.37.4 DOES NOW SHOW HDMI AUDIO IN DEVICE MANAGER (after a re-boot, to get things stabilized to reflect the driver rollback)!

 

Note that Windows considers "hybrid graphics" vs. "discrete graphics" as two different machine environments, with two separate desktops, and two separate "most currently installed drivers".  So if you are in hybrid graphics mode and have installed the Optimus 398.36/1.3.37.4 package, Device Manager will show these drivers, and note that there IS HDMI Audio (as long as you also operate in hybrid graphics mode).

 

 

But if you then change the BIOS to discrete graphics Device Manager will now show the earlier 392.00/1.3.37.4 as if no graphics piece from the Optimus package was applied (although the new 1.3.37.4 audio driver component is now in effect).

 

 

So that's why you might believe you now have HDMI audio (after the latest Intel ME update and BIOS update you mentioned), but it's not because of the Intel and BIOS updates. It's because Windows is still running the old 392.00 graphics driver with the new 1.3.37.4 audio driver, appropriate for the "discrete graphics desktop" with only the NVidia GPU present.  The graphics portion of the Optimus driver package, though actually installed and applicable while in hybrid  graphics mode, is ignored when you go to discrete graphics.

 

So observing this unexpected surprise configuration of 392.00/1.3.37.4 I then manually ran the SETUP.EXE from the 398.36/1.3.37.4 Nvidia driver portion of the Optimus package while in discrete grpahics mode, so that it would get that Windows desktop graphics driver situation up to latest, in order to then see if the Intel ME and Lenovo BIOS updates actually did accomplish something.

 

And the answer is: NO.  Running with the now installed 398.36/1.3.37.4 drivers and discrete graphics mode, the HDMI audio driver disappears from Device Manager.  Yes, that new Nvidia "Virtual Audio" device (which we have no idea what it's for) shows up in Device Manager, but there is no HDMI Audio device.  Hence again we're forced to Realtek laptop audio with LG digital video to the TV.

 

So that's the surprise new fact learned.  It doesn't appear to be a problem with 1.3.37.4 HDMI audio driver, because that new driver does appear capable of producing HDMI audio in Device Manager as long as you still run a 392.00 or older graphics driver (which also works just fine with the older 1.3.36.6 HDMI audio driver in older packages).  It's only when you upgrade the graphics driver to 398.36 or newer (which always comes packaged with 1.3.37.4 or newer HDMI audio) that the HDMI audio device disappears from Device Manager on the P70.

 

So the combination 392.00/1.3.37.4 DOES WORK FINE (accomplished by "driver rollback" through Device Manager for the Nvidia GPU, from the non-working 398.36/1.3.37.4 environment).  As to whether any of this is affected by the latest Intel ME update and/or BIOS 2.28 update, I would say probably not. There's no mention of any relavent fix in the README's.  Or, maybe there is some small improvement, but it still disappears HDMI audio when 398.36/1.3.37.4 is operating along with discrete graphics mode.

 

Here's the failing 398.36/1.3.37.4 Device Manager, with no HDMI audio:

 

 

And Here's the working 392.00/1.3.37.4 Device Manager, with HDMI audio:

 

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